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Author Topic: Our Future in Emergency Communications  (Read 39929 times)
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Patrick J. / KD5OEI
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« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2011, 11:14:25 PM »

for nukes, assuming survival is likely, put a backup stash of radio gear in a metal cabinet. having gear not connected to anything (long pieces of wire..) helps the odds. Being 4 miles from downtown Dallas I'm on the edge of destruction for a real nuke and don't worry about it. No need to worry much. Tornados, those I worry about.
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Radio Candelstein - Flagship Station of the NRK Radio Network.
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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2011, 06:46:05 PM »

Hams did a lot of good 40+ years ago like for example back when a wall of water swept through Rapid City S.D. and hams were on the air with generators and wire antennas handling H and W traffic for a number of days afterwards around the clock.  It was a great thing to monitor; the operators were first rate, the frequencies were clear and everything was a model of respect and orderly operating and discipline.  

But the communications provided by hams for such a disaster today would be handled by modern communications methods that were not around in the early 1970s.  That doesn't mean hams have no use; it means their usefulness has dwindled to vast major environmental disasters such as significant earthquakes and Katrina level hurricanes that completely wipe out the entire communications infrastructure.   Then there is a need for hams on generators for a few days until regular communications channels can be restored to service.  

The problem is most hams are not really prepared for this service (I am not; I don't even own a generator) and I don't see this function getting much emphasis from ARRL.  They seem more interested in getting hams with HTs to help out at marathons.  

Further and to be blunt about it, the ham population is aging, and the energy and focus needed to spend 48 hours at a key or mic isn't there as much now.   On top of that, most hams today are simply not trained in net operations and, judging by what I heard after Katrina, are pretty clumsy when it comes to efficiently handling traffic.  Then there are all the usual modern societal problems that produce kooks who deliberately QRM emergency traffic.  

The ARRL in my opinion, should get away from the focus on hams with HTs and repeaters getting in the way during parades, marathons and soapbox derbies, and work on ways of encouraging some hams to have ruggedized hardened crude but reliable communications systems in place that can be run independently of commercial power sources.  Examples might be a 100 w. vacuum tube CW station running off a generator with a random wire and tuner.  Such an antenna can be shot over a tree and loaded up.  Or, a very robust shielded solid state SSB transmitter (cringe, but it is a low power drain)  with a VCO and similar receiver, designed to run off a bank of cells charged by solar and/or wind energy or even hydroelectric if near a riverbank.  

These actions are precisely what Field Day would be an ideal exercise for, but regrettably, ARRL wastes this opportunity every year by turning FD into just another contest.   The whole concept of points for QSOs should be scrapped--FD should be returned to its original purpose, widespread emergency preparedness.    Clubs and individual hams, should be evaluated for their development and use of hardened specialized genuine emergency communications, independent power sources, with realistic limitations--in a real emergency, no one has time to set up towers, beams and fire up 1500 w. amplifiers in the field in order to have the big point scoring signal that wins the "contest."  

Why doesn't this get done?  Because running around with an orange vest and HT or working a contest are all exciting and fun (to some at least) whereas, building up a solid state brick in a sealed metal can, and random wire tuner for sending CW off solar cells is boring.  And, these disasters only come along once or twice a decade.   But they are or can be, the times when hams can really provide the service they should be known for, especially now, when more people are ditching their land lines and putting all their faith in cell phones, which as we all know, use towers that fold over when the ground heaves, or the super hurricane makes landfall.


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"Not taking crap or giving it is a pretty good lifestyle."--Frank
KA3ZLR
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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2011, 05:42:38 PM »

Hi,

As Far as preparedness, Power Generators are only as good as the fuel supply.
I agree I'm not prepared I had to sell off a lot of my stuff to pay Medical Bills..
General accounting I have a Yeasu FT-270 HT, I have a Yeasu FT-897D and
I have a Briggs-and-Stratton 5HP  2 -110 volt plug on it and that's it.
Pretty sad example.

Oh well

73
Jack
KA3ZLR
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kg8lb
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« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2011, 11:32:46 AM »


I never went on any disaster events i don't plan on it and I won't miss
it if they boot us out...There are folks that are trained to handle this stuff.
with the right equipment today and the em nets on the HF bands have proven
useless an a waste of Spectrum and Band width we don't need any more
EM Traffic Nets.
Yuk... Angry

73
Jack
KA3ZLR.

 That alone would make any disaster a lot easier to accept. Thank you  
  Sounds like you must have been listening in the 40 meter AM window  Grin The Texas No Traffic Net ?

.... whereas, building up a solid state brick in a sealed metal can, and random wire tuner for sending CW off solar cells is boring.  And, these disasters only come along once or twice a decade.   But they are or can be, the times when hams can really provide the service they should be known for, especially now, when more people are ditching their land lines and putting all their faith in cell phones, which as we all know, use towers that fold over when the ground heaves, or the super hurricane makes landfall.




...Exactly !
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KA3ZLR
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2011, 02:37:33 PM »


I never went on any disaster events i don't plan on it and I won't miss
it if they boot us out...There are folks that are trained to handle this stuff.
with the right equipment today and the em nets on the HF bands have proven
useless an a waste of Spectrum and Band width we don't need any more
EM Traffic Nets.
Yuk... Angry

73
Jack
KA3ZLR.

 That alone would make any disaster a lot easier to accept. Thank you  
 
O.M.G. you make me feel like an Outsider..Golly..LOL I feel so unneeded.. Cool

And as Far as what Happened on 7.290 the AM calling Frequency with my Friend Bill
that did it with myself and any kind of net traffic and pretty much wrote off me as
an asset to the emmcom junk...ARES crap...and Badges...sooner or later  certain
folks get what they want at the trouble what they cause another....I'm still a little
upset over that mess. TNX for Dragging that up O.M.

73
Jack
KA3ZLR



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K2PG
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2011, 10:20:17 AM »

Last month, the Susquehanna River rose to record levels. Several communities here in Luzerne County, PA had the worst flooding in recorded history: Shickshinny, which lost its business district and where 80% of the houses are now uninhabitable; West Nanticoke, which lost numerous businesses and many homes; and West Pittston, which lost a lot of homes. Many other towns had severe flooding in this region.

What was on the local repeaters? SILENCE. The much-promoted ARES was conspicuous by its complete absence on the repeaters. The county emergency management people did exactly what they were trained to do. They coordinated the evacuation of areas threatened by the flood waters, directed people to shelters, and coordinated cleanup efforts after the water receded. The county also operated a rumor control line, whose number was publicized on broadcast radio and television. The self-important types with the amber light bars and multiple handheld radios would only have gotten in the way. In this part of Pennsylvania, ARES was as useless as teats on a bull.

Perhaps the ARRL should get off this EMCOMM kick and consider Section 97.1 of the FCC Rules which defines the basis and purpose of the Amateur Radio Service. It should be for the purpose of training people in the electronics and communications fields and for use as a hobby...not a source of frequencies that hospitals can take over because they are too cheap to purchase a Part 90 radio system or as a place where cop wannabes can play bigshot.
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AL7FS
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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2011, 11:58:56 AM »

Sounds like the PA emergency responders did a good job.  It occurs to me that if ham radio is not needed then the incident commander (IC) would have no need to call them up.  Assuming ARES is included in the city and state planning as strongly suggested by the head of FEMA, then hams would be used when and were appropriate.  Perhaps there was no need and the IC did not activate them.  If the infrastructure remains in place for the cities and state, there is no need for hams to be called.  This is all as it should be.

On the other hand, if the city and state EC planners did not add ham radio into their planning, then shame on them.  They could have had hard working volunteers to help carry the load.  We are a force multiplier when call upon but if not called, we can and should stay out of the way.

I am dismayed to read some of emotional attitudes on this thread and wonder what event caused the bitter attitude towards ham radio and volunteers in general.  I happen to like hams, ham radio, volunteers and what they can do.

Jim, AL7FS
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2011, 12:43:05 PM »

Perhaps the ARRL should get off this EMCOMM kick and consider Section 97.1 of the FCC Rules which defines the basis and purpose of the Amateur Radio Service.

That's an excellent point, Phil. As someone who took part in the Vermont RACES program for over twenty years as an emergency responder, including ten plus as the state director, this is an issue I brought up many times. Seems there was always plenty of agreement and grumbling, but good operators were few and far between.

Now that you've taken time to expose how poorly ARES responded to the disaster in your area, I look forward to reading an equally-detailed report on your participation in the event from an amateur radio perspective: what equipment you utilized, what you did to help out those in need, how you took up the slack for those who didn't respond, to equally justify your use of the amateur frequencies. As you point out, this is the Amateur Radio Service, after all. With your vast knowledge and decades of experience, surely your service made a difference in favor of amateur radio.

Photos and diagrams are optional, but would certainly add clarity and credibility. Please hurry as I think the numbers of cop wannabes are closing in fast on the piss-and-moan-but-do-nothing-to-improve-it/elitist  types.

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known as The Voice of Vermont in a previous life
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2011, 01:26:37 PM »

Now that you've taken time to expose how poorly ARES responded to the disaster in your area, I look forward to reading an equally-detailed report on your participation in the event from an amateur radio perspective: what equipment you utilized, what you did to help out those in need, how you took up the slack for those who didn't respond, to equally justify your use of the amateur frequencies. As you point out, this is the Amateur Radio Service, after all. With your vast knowledge and decades of experience, surely your service made a difference in favor of amateur radio.

I was very active on the radio during the flood emergency, but not on amateur radio. I was on 508 meters (a/k/a 590 kHz, Station WARM in Scranton, PA) disseminating emergency bulletins, shelter info, collection points for food, bottled water, and other supplies needed by flood victims, and publicizing the rumor control phone number operated by the county. If you must know what equipment I utilized, how about a good studio telephone system, a Radio Systems RS-12 audio console, an Armstrong 950 MHz link, and a Gates BC-5HA transmitter feeding a five element phased vertical array at 5 kW? The other stations in our cluster, particularly WMGS, an FM station running 6.8 kW from 2400 feet above sea level, did likewise. I monitored the amateur repeaters...nothing. The county and local emergency frequencies were constantly active.


As you can see, I may not have done anything to "justify" holding down amateur frequencies. But I did help the holder of a PROFESSIONAL frequency to justify keeping its license.

The League does tend to be a bit self-important at times. That attitude is what irks me. If there is an emergency, STAY OUT OF THE WAY and let the professionals do their job! If they need you, they will call you.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2011, 01:46:38 PM »

--in a real emergency, no one has time to set up towers, beams and fire up 1500 w. amplifiers in the field in order to have the big point scoring signal that wins the "contest."  

Do you really think QuaRMtesters limit their amplifiers to 1500w?  Grin

One useful function AR could serve during a major disaster, particularly on HF, is relaying health and welfare traffic.  When the telecommunications are down (cell phones, internet and landline phones), there is limited opportunity to get word out to anxious family members and loved ones via the standard EM communications infrastructure.

Set up a station a safe distance away, running off generator or battery power, offer to pass H & W traffic, and stay out of the way of the emergency crews at the disaster scene. And as you make preparations to serve, accept the fact that the odds of actually being called on are about the same as winning the lottery.

I recall when I lived in Houston, some of the local yokel "Ham Volunteers" who deployed while a hurricane was brewing in the Gulf actually showed disappointment when it veered off collision course to hit landfall somewhere else in a sparsely populated area.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2011, 01:52:25 PM »

PIZZA?....They have pizza.?..I'm getting a handi talky


I never went on any disaster events i don't plan on it and I won't miss it if they boot us out...There are folks that are trained to handle this stuff. with the right equipment today and the em nets on the HF bands have proven useless an a waste of Spectrum and Band width we don't need any more EM Traffic Nets.




But if you show up at the disaster scene in your vehicle with flashing light bar blinking, wearing your yellow vest and your belt filled with multiple handi-talkies, you might be able to score of cup of coffee and maybe even a slice of the pizza donated to the emergency crew by Red Cross volunteers.
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« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2011, 02:35:23 PM »

As you can see, I may not have done anything to "justify" holding down amateur frequencies. But I did help the holder of a PROFESSIONAL frequency to justify keeping its license.

Apples and oranges as far as this thread goes. This discussion involves volunteers in amateur radio, not paid professionals in broadcasting, truck driving, airline pilots or anything else. Fine that you spent time at your employer's place of work like millions of other people do each day, emergency or not. Even better if you put in some overtime without compensation, from the 'volunteer' perspective.

Quote
The League does tend to be a bit self-important at times. That attitude is what irks me. If there is an emergency, STAY OUT OF THE WAY and let the professionals do their job! If they need you, they will call you.

True enough. From my experiences, that's exactly what most amateurs do in emergencies: stay out of the way. Maybe the fact that you heard nothing on some repeater(s) means they were doing just that? You can't have it both ways.

Sounds like you have a gripe with the ARRL that should be directed to them for best results. Be it their attitude, procedures, or anything else, AMfone isn't responsible for their activities. We merely provide a forum for news and announcements since some AMers are also ARRL members, and the ARRL does affect amateur operation from time to time.

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« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2011, 06:01:44 PM »

"  I'm getting a handi talky. "

You'll still be a piker...

You need a vest. And it better have reflective tape and patches.


klc
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What? Me worry?
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« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2011, 04:09:54 PM »

"  I'm getting a handi talky. "

You'll still be a piker...
You need a vest. And it better have reflective tape and patches.
klc

Don't forget this gem...


* hr73.jpg (21.56 KB, 200x167 - viewed 988 times.)
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« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2011, 11:08:58 AM »

Badges? we dont need no stinkin badges


klc
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What? Me worry?
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« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2011, 11:36:12 AM »

Further north across the NY border, there was some ham activity supporting the shelters. As I was driving around getting pumps to try to empty the basement I was monitoring some of the repeaters in the affected area in the southern tier and there was a fair bit of activity. A lot of it seemed to be related to shelters, or directing hams to various other support locations. Because the major infrastructure (power, phones) didn't go down, there wasn't as big a need as there might be in other circumstances.

Our county ARES folks were on notice to provide support and were gathering a list of available local hams, but then after a couple of days were told we could stand down.
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73 de Kevin, WB2EMS
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