Does anyone have the dope on old Carter Genemotors?

[W7TFO]

I have three little ones, sure could use the stats.   

No model numbers on them at all. 

73DG

[Bill, KD0HG]

If there's no info, you'll need to experiment. They're likely 12 or 24 volt devices. Black cotton leads are always negative, the thicker wires are the low voltage DC input.

I'd start by applying 12 VDC to the input and see if it runs. If it does run, then measure the DC output voltage. Then you can guess from there if it's a 12 or 24 volt unit.

If they haven't been touched for ages, and you want to use them, I'd advise repacking the ball bearings with new grease using a toothpick. The old timey WWII grease turns to consistency of candle wax. No good any more.

[W7TFO]

Thanks, Bill.  I should have been a bit more detailed with my request.

These are early 30's vintage, pre-war non-military.  I've seen them in early auto radio hookups.

Carter apparently sold the rights to Pioneer just before the war.

All three of them are 6-Volt input.  One makes 300V, one makes 400V, the last makes 500V.  I just wonder what current I can safely pull without hurting them.

They are cute, with root-beer brown original paint.  Rather unique look to them, as they have spherical end bells.

Don't worry, all of them will get new bearings & brushes before going to work again.

I thought one or more might just be the ticket for a retro-vintage portable ham rig.

73DG

[KD6VXI]

http://www.radiomuseum.org/m/carter-ge_usa_en_1.html

[W7TFO]

Thanks, been there already.  I've looked under every internet rock I can find, no joy.

They won't let you even look at things with decent resolution without coughing up $25!

Test bench time.

73DG

[WB6NVH]

Carter Motor Company is still in business.  Pioneer is not, as far as I know. Carter was still stocking these in 1971.

Are you referring to the rectangular, flat Genemotors on the 2" frame ?

Those are special high speed, low inertia motors and they are designed for full speed in 2/10 second.  They are made with very tight tolerances and are not designed to be taken apart and rebuilt, although it is possible if you have some serious measuring and machine shop equipment.

There are two bearing kinds used, oil-less sleeve and ball.  Most were ball.

Concentricity was held to better than .0005" and bore and shaft tolerances were held to .0001 according to Carter.  The frames were preassembled and line reamed, and the ball bearings were special "tight fit" types.  The bearings are made for .0015 - .003 end play.  The commutators were diamond lapped to a very tight tolerance.

As I don't see how the old grease could be much good anymore, you are going to have to repack the bearings.  I recommend Mobil Polyrex grease, which is for this application, and not the hammy hambone solutions such as wheel bearing grease.

I would recommend not trying to change the bearings for the above reasons.  

[W7TFO]

A photo is worth a lot of typin'....

Nothing flat about these.  As if they were designed by Zigfield himself, rotund & curvy.

Just lubing the ball bearings is not an option, as all of them are loose (not on the shaft).  I have bunch of high precision bearings left over from when I rebuilt cart machines and they look the part.

Someone really used these for a mobile ham rig, and were prolly retired when they got noisy & erratic.

One of these jewels is a bit 'less used' than the others, and it turns smoothly.  It doesn't spool up to any speed like you would find on later production.  Feels like 1800 rpm or so.  Puts out 300VDC, pulls a couple amps just running with no load.

From what I read before, these were built for car radios in the days (1934) just before vibrators came out.  So the output I ought to be around 75 to 80 mA.  The primary wires are 18ga, so there is not a lots of amps there either.

Many thanks to everyone!

73DG

[WB6NVH]

Is that one of the three which were mounted on a board on an eBay auction a number of days ago?

As far as I know, Carter never called that series the Genemotor, or at least didn't after WWII.  I remember Pioneer did, though. 

The bearings on those should be off the shelf from a bearing house and you should be able to pack them with Polyrex and be good.

I think these are listed in the Radio's Master for about 1939-40, under Pioneer, not Carter.  If I can find anything I'll post back.

[W7TFO]

Affirmative on the eBay buy.

One each end, over the bearing area, it says Carter Genemotor.

The bearings I have are pre-lubed & sealed.  I hope they fit OK.  All I have to do now is find them.

73DG

[W2PFY]

Is this Carter company any relation to Carters Little Liver Pills and did they have any "dope" in them?

[W7TFO]

Doubtful.  

Prolly not related to the Carter family singers, the ink bunch, nor the carburator guys either.

73DG