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Author Topic: grid neutralization of triodes  (Read 4091 times)
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W8ACR
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254W


« on: October 12, 2011, 01:30:54 AM »

Upon examining the homebrew transmitter that I picked up at the W0ZUS auction, I discovered a circuit design that I have not seen before. In the homebrew 254W rig that I built I used a pi network tank circuit with grid neutralization. The neutralizing capacitor goes fromt the plate of the final amplifier to the bottom of the grid coil and of course it has full plate voltage on one side of the cap. In the W0ZUS transmitter, the neutralizing capacitor is downstream from the plate blocking cap and thus has no B+ on it. See the attached schematic. What are the pros and cons of this design if any?


* grid neutralization.jpg (133.65 KB, 2338x1700 - viewed 574 times.)
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 01:48:22 AM »

You don't save much on the cap voltage rating, and every TX I've ever seen using that scheme needed neutralization touch-ups when adjusting plate tuning.

Again, YMMV depending how that one really performs.

"The map is not the territory"

73DG
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KM1H
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 07:00:35 PM »

Its a monoband method that is very frequency dependent.

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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 09:11:28 AM »

Upon examining the homebrew transmitter that I picked up at the W0ZUS auction, I discovered a circuit design that I have not seen before. In the homebrew 254W rig that I built I used a pi network tank circuit with grid neutralization. The neutralizing capacitor goes fromt the plate of the final amplifier to the bottom of the grid coil and of course it has full plate voltage on one side of the cap. In the W0ZUS transmitter, the neutralizing capacitor is downstream from the plate blocking cap and thus has no B+ on it. See the attached schematic. What are the pros and cons of this design if any?

That's the way my 304 rig is built and neutralized. The old buzzards could have done that if they had used pi-networks.

My own reason is that my neutralization cap consists of a 10 pf 857-style ceramic in parallel with an air cap. In the event the fixed cap should ever fail, there's won't be the full plate supply dumped into the grid, which would be a disaster. Just a bit of insurance.

B+ on the cap or not, grid neutralization is not as effective as plate neutralization, but it's about your only option with a single ended triode with pi net output.
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WU2D
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 02:07:23 PM »

Grid or Rice Neutralization comes from the old TRF Radios of the 20's. It does work fine in single band systems. This is what was used in the old ARC-5's and those designers knew what they were doing. It is an easier method to implement with a single ended tank! The common uneven split C feedback found in most older ham gear with Pi networks uses a form of this so it is very common in that form at least. Look around the 6CL6 and 12BY7 driver tanks in these circuits and you will see what I mean.

I use it in my 40M MOPA with a Type 27 driving a neutralized Type 10 tube. You do not have to center tap it and can actually adjust the tap point for the amount of feedback need.

Is it as effective as plate neutralization? Probably not in practice but a lot better than no neutralization!

Mike WU2D
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 02:52:31 PM »


I use it in my 40M MOPA with a Type 27 driving a neutralized Type 10 tube. You do not have to center tap it and can actually adjust the tap point for the amount of feedback need.

Is it as effective as plate neutralization? Probably not in practice but a lot better than no neutralization!

That's exactly the way they do it in the Gates BC-1 series BC transmitters, with two 833As in parallel no less.  Nothing "balanced" about that final, but when I converted the BC1-T, I was surprised and delighted that I could neutralise it at 2.0 mc/s and it would stay neutralised all the way down to 1.8 without re-adjustment. Making the adjustment hold up on other bands would undoubtedly be more of a challenge, but I use it as a dedicated 160m rig and don't worry about it.

The 211 driver stage in my HF-300 rig uses plate neutralisation, but the plate-to-ground capacitance of that tube is so high that it tends to unbalance the balanced tank circuit. I placed another small variable capacitor, nearly identical to the neut capacitor, from the opposite end of the plate coil (where NC is connected) to ground. I neutralised the stage at the lowest frequency (where the split stator tank capacitor is at maximum capacitance and tube capacitance would cause the least unbalance), then tuned it to the highest frequency (20m at the time), and then re-neutralised by adjusting the balancing capacitor (bringing the circuit back into balance with the balancing capacitor.  After a few excursions from 160 to 20 and back again for fine tuning, I found a pair of settings that would hold the null at all bands, 160 through 20, and locked down the variable caps.  After 40 years I have never re-touched those adjustments, even after having gone through several 211s.
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 05:27:59 PM »

Both methods, good and bad, are discussed in Billy Orr's handbook...  I have a recent-y edition and remember this being outhouse fodder for about 3 days while I went through that section.


--Shane
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