The world has one less B-17

[KA8WTK]

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/national/wwii-b-17-bomber-due-in-cincinnati-crashes-outside-chicago

[W2PFY]

Here is a link to the pictures and videos I took last summer of that plane. It sure is a sad sad day when we loose one of these treasures. There are some other random pictures or videos of other planes on the field that day in Albany, NY.

https://picasaweb.google.com/Captionmarvelous/B17AIRPLANE

[KA0HCP]

There was a crash and burning of another warbird about a month ago.  A couple last year including one in England.

I think we are reaching the point where it IS time to stop flying them so we can preserve what's left.

It's just time.

Bill.

[KA8WTK]

A quick "Google" says there are about 40 left. Of those, maybe 13 are flying. These numbers are a year or so old. That means that there are examples that won't leave the ground and are preserved in museums. That is a good thing.
However, I for one hope they keep flying the ones they can. The sight and sound of one in the air is awsome. When you crawl through one and try to imagine what flying one in combat must have been like, it scares the devil out of you.
I want to ride in a war bird! If given my choice, a B-25. It is just a tad too expensive for me to afford.
To not fly them when they can is like a garage full of high performance cars that will never be started or a vintage radio that will never hear the ether again even though it can.

[Sam KS2AM]

Speaking of B-17's, there is an airshow this coming weekend at one of my favorite places - the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in Hamilton, Ontario. From the airshow flyer "Heavy bomber formation of Lancaster, two B-17 Flying Fortresses & B-25 Mitchell".

Show flyer: http://airshow.warplane.com/hamilton-airshow-2011.aspx

The museum is a great place. Many of the museum pieces fly. Some are under restoration. You can get up close to all of them in the museum.

Museum aircraft: http://www.warplane.com/pages/aircraft.html

Planes you can take a ride in: http://www.warplane.com/pages/services_rideprogram.html

[KL7OF]

Keep em flying!

[WA3VJB]

Hey Terry -- great noise in your #7 video as the plane rolled out and took off.
https://picasaweb.google.com/Captionmarvelous/B17AIRPLANE#5502339951602684050

Having flown in the nose seat of a B-17, I can describe the flight as extraordinary. 
Sorry to see one less in the air, but VERY glad the pilot made a controlled landing and that everyone got out safely.

[The Slab Bacon]

I saw that on the news last nite, very sad to see an irreplacable piece of our history go up in flames.

[W2PFY]

Hey Terry -- great noise in your #7 video as the plane rolled out and took off.

Thanks Paul! Looks like the engines may be salvageable.

More great pics here.

http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Looking-at-history-from-inside-a-B-17-583174.php

[KL7OF]

I received an e-mail forward written by one of the pilots for the liberty foundation that was flying a foundation p-40 on the same day as the b-17 went down....The b-17 did not crash....They had an in flight fire and made a successful forced landing (gear down) and were able to clear all passengers and baggage from the plane....The fire was small at the time and was limited to one wing..Fire trucks were dispatched to the scene...The fire trucks could not get close enough to the plane because of soft ground condx and the crew and passengers had to stand by and watch the fire spread until the plane was consumed....The media and it's misinformation has labeled this as a crash...

[WA3VJB]

Yep, there's an amazingly persistent tendency to make a "crash" out of all unexpected landings.  As a person who flies general aviation (right seat or front seat) as a hobby, I get irritated but realize most of the public sees no difference.

Believe me, even those of us inside the media try to get the point across.

Ricky Nelson's final flight, in a DC-3, was my first encounter with the inaccurate use of the term. That plane had an in-flight fire blamed on a faulty cabin heater (which uses gasoline), and the pilot successfully landed the plane as it burned up.  Nelson was among those who didn't get out in time.

I could not convince at least two media outlets to avoid using the term crash, and Nelson's death continues to be blamed on a "crash."  

I received an e-mail forward written by one of the pilots for the liberty foundation that was flying a foundation p-40 on the same day as the b-17 went down....The b-17 did not crash....They had an in flight fire and made a successful forced landing (gear down) and were able to clear all passengers and baggage from the plane....The fire was small at the time and was limited to one wing..Fire trucks were dispatched to the scene...The fire trucks could not get close enough to the plane because of soft ground condx and the crew and passengers had to stand by and watch the fire spread until the plane was consumed....The media and it's misinformation has labeled this as a crash...

[W2PFY]

Ricky Nelson's final flight, in a DC-3,

I recall reading that Rickie Nelson plane was constructed with the use of magnesium. This is a light weight strong metal that is flammable. This could have been part of the reason Rickie and his fellow passengers could not get out of it in time.  I wonder if the B-17 that crashed had any of this metal in it? You may recall the the uni bomber used this in his mail bombs. This metal was used in transmission housing and that is where Ted got his metal. He would file what he needed off the housing to make a bomb.   

[W2DU]

A few years ago two planes of the Liberty Foundation were barnstorming here in Central Michigan, one a B-24, the other a B-17. The B-24 had an engine problem and was held up in Gladwin awaiting a replacement engine to come in from somewhere in Florida. However, the B-17 flew on to Mt. Pleasant, where I live during Summers, so I had the chance to fly in it for a full exciting hour. After touring the plane during the flight I stood directly behind the pilot for the remainder of the flight. I had always been in love with the B-17, so it was a great thrill to fly in it.

Walt

[k4kyv]

Ricky Nelson's final flight, in a DC-3,

I recall reading that Rickie Nelson plane was constructed with the use of magnesium. This is a light weight strong metal that is flammable. This could have been part of the reason Rickie and his fellow passengers could not get out of it in time.  I wonder if the B-17 that crashed had any of this metal in it? You may recall the the uni bomber used this in his mail bombs. This metal was used in transmission housing and that is where Ted got his metal. He would file what he needed off the housing to make a bomb.   

Are you sure you are not confusing Rickie Nelson's flight with John Denver's?  Maybe I'm wrong, but given the vintage of the DC-3, I wouldn't think anything as high-tech as cast magnesium parts would have been used in its construction. I believe an alloy called Duralumin was used in aircraft of that era because it was strong and light in weight. It was also used in antenna construction just before WWII.

Magnesium is flammable only when it is shaved into small pieces or ground into a powder. I remember a heavy solid cast magnesium grille someone had taken off some piece of machinery and used for years for cooking barbecue.

John Denver was a flying enthusiast and his mishap occurred while he was trying out an experimental aircraft that reportedly had design faults, and human error on his part may have been a factor as well.

Rickie Nelson's accident makes me think of the  ride I took with a friend in his VW Beetle on a cold winter day about 30 years ago.  The heater didn't work, so he had a tank of propane gas and a gas-operated space heater set up in the back seat.  It was toasty warm inside the car, but I was much relieved when the ride was over. He's dead now, but from natural causes. He didn't take care of himself after he contracted diabetes.

[WA3VJB]

Walt, I wonder if you remember whether it was a tight fit on the catwalk between the radio op position and the pilot's deck. There was this structural member in the shape of a "V" that I could barely get my shoulders through as I passed from back to front.  

It was actually easier to then take the ladder down into the front nosecone area where I sat for the flight I took. That's the part made of sections of clear glass and plastic. What a view !



You were fortunate to be able to stand behind the pilot, since I don't remember a lot of room there as I stuck my head up through the hatch to watch the crew for a few minutes during the flight. Here's some footage from my trip:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/11/usaf.flyover/index.html?iref=allsearch

A few years ago // the B-17 flew on to Mt. Pleasant, where I live during Summers, so I had the chance to fly in it for a full exciting hour. After touring the plane during the flight I stood directly behind the pilot for the remainder of the flight. I had always been in love with the B-17, so it was a great thrill to fly in it.

Walt

[W2PFY]

Are you sure you are not confusing Rickie Nelson's

That's what I read but it was probably miss information. I did however look up to see if magnesium and it was used in pre 1950 airplanes.

The information on Rickie was that he and other passengers we killed when the plane hit obstacles on the ground while attempting to land, not the fire itself according to the FAA investigation.

As an update but not related to a DC-3...The aircraft made its maiden flight on 15 August 1945 [1], powered by two ACh-31 diesel engines (each producing 1,500 hp). It was soon decided to re-engine the aircraft with Shvetsov ASh-82 radial engines, the revised aircraft flying on 9 January 1946.[1]

It was found to have major problems during testing, having poor engine out characteristics and requiring a strut under the rear fuselage to prevent tipping during loading due to CG problems. [2] Further problems was the use of magnesium near the engines which in case of engine fire could cause a uncontrolled fire, damaging the wing structure. This led to a crash with a complete loss of lives after the wing of the airplane collapsed during flight after an engine fire. The magnesium was replaced by aluminium alloys.

[N0WEK]

I ran into the copilot on the Ricky Nelson flight, Ken Ferguson, a number of years ago in Minneapolis.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-29/news/mn-2163_1_rick-nelson