Slopbucket cornholetesters

[KX5JT]

.............
AM gods... please don't revoke my meager AM credentials for this confession! 

What it all boils down to is this: Contesting is just another activity enjoyed by amateur radio operators - just like CW, or Data, or AM or slopbucket, or... and in my book, if an activity like contesting keeps people enjoying the hobby, then it's good in my book. Different strokes ya know! 

And if ya'll want to get back at the slopbucketeers you could just throw more AM contests... 

It's not the contests, it's the behavior of SOME (many) of the contestors that we are complaining about.  Honestly now!  When the AM Transmitter Rally or the Heavy Metal rally and other A.M. contest like events occured, I did NOT hear the intentional QRM'ing and stepping on like we do in just about all the other modes.  Maybe it's sheer numbers but the behavior is not just aggravating but it's technically ILLEGAL. 

I'm all about allowing all the aspects of ham radio to exist with attention and respect to other operators.  But during most contests, that attentive respect evaporates. 

We need a low frequency WARC band.... or give us five more "channels" on 60 meters for A.M. where no contests are allowed! THAT would be cool.

[KM1H]

Never going to happen. Contesting has been a staple of amateur radio activity since the beginning of time.

How true, it goes right back to the first trans Atlantic tests on spark. Can you imagine the bedlam from that?

[Steve - K4HX]

You're kidding right? That was not anything like a modern day contest. Read the accounts. No points were awarded.

[k4kyv]

We need a low frequency WARC band.... or give us five more "channels" on 60 meters for A.M. where no contests are allowed! THAT would be cool.

That's what 60m was supposed to be.  The FCC appeared to be going along with the idea of a real ham band in the vicinity of 5 mc/s. The debate had boiled down to details of how the new band would be structured: sub-bands or no sub-bands, power levels, modes allowed, etc.

It would not have been an internationally allocated ham band, but several other countries seemed to be interested.  I think this included Canada and  a couple of European countries.  Possibly VK and ZL too. If the new band had been created, it may well have been allocated internationally at the next WARC, becoming a new bona fide WARC band.

The main opponents, lobbying hard against any new amateur allocations anywhere in the HF spectrum, were Part 15 providers like Homeplug Alliance and BPL interests.  They didn't want to have to install further frequency notching in their garbage-spewing hash generators. They were hoping to pressure the FCC into giving unlicensed Part 15 devices priority over licensed services.  The Part 15 lobbyists had some success, by snuffing out the proposal to create a longwave amateur band in the vicinity of 150 kc/s, claiming it would threaten power line communications systems that electric utilities use to communicate and send control signals down major power line arteries, and thus create the danger of power outages.

The straw that broke the camel's back was 11SE01.  Suddenly, HF spectrum, which had been pretty much abandoned, took on strategic importance, and NTIA, which had initially approved the idea of the new ham band, suddenly decided that those frequencies were too valuable to release.

I suspect this may have been a smoke screen in the midst of the panic reaction to the events of that day, allowing NTIA to take advantage of the situation and renege on its initial nod to go ahead with the proposal.  This part of the HF spectrum is not exactly bustling with activity, and undoubtedly existing users could have shuffled frequencies a little to accommodate the proposed band, just as they did to allow broadcasters to shift upwards above the 40m band.  If the FCC can find room to allow WWCR to operate its splatter/distortion generator on multiple frequencies outside the internationally allocated short wave broadcast bands, surely room for the proposed new band could have been accommodated. By now, a decade after 11SE01, things should have settled down enough that a real ham band could be reconsidered, but Part 15 interests succeeded in getting their way and no further action is likely to be taken for a long time, if ever. Money talks.

[WD8BIL]

5Mhz is a heavily used band for governmnet and non-government aeronautical mobil traffic.
It's interesting listening!

[Pete, WA2CWA]

We need a low frequency WARC band.... or give us five more "channels" on 60 meters for A.M. where no contests are allowed! THAT would be cool.

That's what 60m was supposed to be.  The FCC appeared to be going along with the idea of a real ham band in the vicinity of 5 mc/s. The debate had boiled down to details of how the new band would be structured: sub-bands or no sub-bands, power levels, modes allowed, etc.

It would not have been an internationally allocated ham band, but several other countries seemed to be interested.  I think this included Canada and  a couple of European countries.  Possibly VK and ZL too. If the new band had been created, it may well have been allocated internationally at the next WARC, becoming a new bona fide WARC band.

The main opponents, lobbying hard against any new amateur allocations anywhere in the HF spectrum, were Part 15 providers like Homeplug Alliance and BPL interests.  They didn't want to have to install further frequency notching in their garbage-spewing hash generators. They were hoping to pressure the FCC into giving unlicensed Part 15 devices priority over licensed services.  The Part 15 lobbyists had some success, by snuffing out the proposal to create a longwave amateur band in the vicinity of 150 kc/s, claiming it would threaten power line communications systems that electric utilities use to communicate and send control signals down major power line arteries, and thus create the danger of power outages.

The straw that broke the camel's back was 11SE01.  Suddenly, HF spectrum, which had been pretty much abandoned, took on strategic importance, and NTIA, which had initially approved the idea of the new ham band, suddenly decided that those frequencies were too valuable to release.

I suspect this may have been a smoke screen in the midst of the panic reaction to the events of that day, allowing NTIA to take advantage of the situation and renege on its initial nod to go ahead with the proposal.  This part of the HF spectrum is not exactly bustling with activity, and undoubtedly existing users could have shuffled frequencies a little to accommodate the proposed band, just as they did to allow broadcasters to shift upwards above the 40m band.  If the FCC can find room to allow WWCR to operate its splatter/distortion generator on multiple frequencies outside the internationally allocated short wave broadcast bands, surely room for the proposed new band could have been accommodated. By now, a decade after 11SE01, things should have settled down enough that a real ham band could be reconsidered, but Part 15 interests succeeded in getting their way and no further action is likely to be taken for a long time, if ever. Money talks.

You might want to read this: FCC Proposes Changes to 60 Meters by Bill Cross: http://www.arrl.org/news/bill-cross-w3tn-presents-fcc-forum-at-2010-dayton-hamvention

And the NPRM: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-76A1.pdf

[K5UJ]

<<<They were hoping to pressure the FCC into giving unlicensed Part 15 devices priority over licensed services. >>>

That may not be over.  The last ARRL Board meeting drafted objectives vis a' vis the current Congress and objective 3 pertained to thwarting legislative efforts to diminish the rights and protections for licensed users over those of unlicensed users.  It seems therefore that lobbyists have moved on to Congress.

[k4kyv]

You might want to read this: FCC Proposes Changes to 60 Meters by Bill Cross: http://www.arrl.org/news/bill-cross-w3tn-presents-fcc-forum-at-2010-dayton-hamvention
And the NPRM: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-76A1.pdf

Much ado about nothing.  Changing one of the channel frequencies and upping the power level a little doesn't impress me much.

[KM1H]

You're kidding right? That was not anything like a modern day contest. Read the accounts. No points were awarded.

Nope, it changed along with the hobby as that grew along with technology, understanding propagation, etc, as it grew into the ARRL QSO Party, Sweepstakes, DX Contest, etc all in the 30's.

Considering that receivers were as broad as a barn door and drifted, transmitters were often just as unstable, AM QRM was really a nightmare in a contest and what happens today is no different in its impact to non contesters. Power went up, antennas got bigger but so did the equipment improve so more can share the same bandwidth that wasnt even conceivable back then.

[Steve - K4HX]

Now you really are stretching it, using a word like share! 

[W1RC]

Any other activity that trashed the bands and displayed such poor operating practice, splattering signals and rampant use of illegal power would be decried by the ARRL and other self-important types.

Well put,Steve!  It can be argued that this is in reality "wilful and malicious interference".  Cite the violators and let the courts decide.  Ain't gonna happen and here's the reaon why in my opinion,

The League panders and caters to these idiots because they, along with the DXer "Big Guns" (or the wannabees) buy stuff that QST advertisers sell.  Who else would drop 5-10K on a transceiver and more on a tower/antenna system?  

What do we, the vintage radio enthusiasts buy from the radio stores and how much $$ do we spend with the likes of HRO and their competition?  

I think that Todd is correct that the number of contests be seriously reduced.  I would go farther by suggesting that these events be restricted to certain portions of the bands so as to leave some room for the rest of us to operate without interference.

But of course this will never happen because we have no economic value to the League.

73,

Mister Mike, W1RC

[W2VW]

FCC doesn't need us bothering them with this crap.

If a contester opens up within the passband you're using ask him/her to please move.

Be prepared to work through bad band conditions and don't simply turn tail whenever some idiot trys to bully you.

[WA3VJB]

FCC doesn't need us bothering them with this crap.

Plus, the League's regulatory and legislative lobbyist, Dan Henderson, is the club's former contest department chief. Guess how HE feels about any boundaries? 

[W2VW]

As I said before. Serious contesters don't waste time screwing around. When one of these fellows lights off while someone on AM is talking about what they did in 1956 it's usually a casual or clueless wannabe contester.

[WA3VJB]

Dave you should really learn how "today" contesting is done.

There is no human involved.  

Radios look for carriers and auto-tune to a frequency near us.  Automated callouts then proceed. Voice recognition and a storage-and-retrieval system tallies the contacts with other like-minded robot stations.  Licensed operator comes back Sunday night, and a printout of the "score" is awaiting them on the printer.

PDF has already been sent to the ARRL.

These are facts.

[KM1H]

Steve, I happened to be reading the Feb 1940 QST this morning and came across the rules for the 12th DX Competition as it was called then. I'll let others do the math as to what year it started.

It also announced a rule change to stimulate more DX activity which was to allow them to count US states as multipliers.

As I said earlier contests have been around longer than anyone on here can remember and someone was always whining about QRM. just as they do today. Dont expect anything to change.

[k4kyv]

In most QuaRMtests in recent years, activity has dropped off to the point that you can still find empty spots in the band, particularly at the high end. The past few years, I hardly even noticed what used to be one of most obnoxious of QuaRMtests, the Penisylvania QSO Pharty, that it was even on.

One notable exception this year was the CQ 160m Slopbucket QuaRMtest.  They literally occupied the band all the way from 1.8 to 2.0, and some of the ops very aggressively tried to shove any non-QuaRMtester off the band.

I have found the "strap softly and turn up the wick" tactic to work very well. A serious QuaRMtester is wasting precious five-nines arguing with someone over who owns a frequency, and will just QSY so he can continue answering or calling his automated CQs.

[Steve - K4HX]

My point was and still is that none of what you say makes it right. Long standing bad behavior does not and never will justify continued bad behavior. I don't even consider this line a legitimate argument in favor of contesting. It contains several fallacies - an appeal to tradition which is a fallacy of relevance, a bandwagon fallacy and the Tu Quoque fallacy, a common fallacy of presumption.

You'll have to do better OM.

Steve, I happened to be reading the Feb 1940 QST this morning and came across the rules for the 12th DX Competition as it was called then. I'll let others do the math as to what year it started.

It also announced a rule change to stimulate more DX activity which was to allow them to count US states as multipliers.

As I said earlier contests have been around longer than anyone on here can remember and someone was always whining about QRM. just as they do today. Dont expect anything to change.

[KM1H]

Bovine excrement....we can continue this at Nearfest

[Steve - K4HX]

I'll buy you a beer. 

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

He has to show up, first. 

[KM1H]

I'll buy you a beer.

I quit drinking 10 years ago....it improved my disposition

He has to show up, first.

KMA Todd   I'll be there if Im breathing even if its just to see what disguise Tom will be in

[Steve - K4HX]

KMA Todd   I'll be there if Im breathing even if its just to see what disguise Tom will be in

LOL. And it's always the highlight of the show.

[K1JJ]

Not EZ this year, glasshoppa.  I buy five Groucho glasses/mustaches -  one for HUZ, PJP, GFZ, ETP and me.   You have 20% chance of finding Vu.

T

[AF9J]

I wasn't going to reply, but this "all contesters are QRMtesters, and therefore all contesers are GARBAGE operators" is one of the reasons why I have not been active on the board (along with the mentality many AMers seem to have that unless you're armchair copy, and running 300 watts of carrier, you're too hard to hold a QSO with).

I remember a couple of years back when some of you guys got Mark, K3MSB revved up over this issue, and I think Mark's a great guy (whom I've chatted with more than a few times on 6m, 10m, AND during contests).  For the last time, YES, some contesters are rude.  So are a few AMers, SSTVers, etc.  It's human nature.  It's almost like playing in a band (of which I've been in more than a few of them) - sooner or later, you're going to run into jerks, flakes, etc.  Cut it out!  I don't beat up on you guys who have your ampgasm QSOs about circuits that were found in a 1936 copy of R9 (where you spend 20 mintes or more waxing poetic about mod iron choices for the circuit), have a phobia about using anything other than triodes, or have the occasional chat about getting stoned on awesome weed back in the 60s or 70s.  So QUIT knocking on me for contesting!

'Nuff said,
Ellen - AF9J
Working her umpteenth Saturday in a row, and I'm salaried (no OT for me)