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Author Topic: Tower Guying Question  (Read 3611 times)
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KC9RGF
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« on: August 25, 2010, 07:47:28 PM »

I have approximately 50' of Rohn 45G of which roughly 45' will be above grade when set in the concrete base. The tower needs to support a T2X rotor, 12' of 1/4" wall aluminum mast, a Mosely Pro 57-B, a Cushcraft A13B2 and possibly some kind of 6m yagi.

I've read through the Rohn site and found the guying guidelines which basically require .8' out for each 1' vertical height. Due to lot size, set back requirements, village codes about proximity to the house and a previously forgotten about utility easement I am unable to get that "80%". I can manage 60%, perhaps as much as 66% depending on the property survey. 

Are there any alternative methods to guy this tower - ie: four or six cables instead of three? Heavier cable and larger anchor blocks?
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K6IC
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 08:08:30 PM »

There are pro tower installers who frequent this site,  in the intirim,  if you have time,  you might poke around on the Tower Talk reflector/archives:
http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/towertalk

 Think that there are a lot of knobs to turn,  and if one looks in the Rohn catalog for examples of tower guying,  it usually shows the top guys at or near the bottom of the top section,  this may work well for commercial comm verticals mounted at the top,  but not well for hammy yagis on a mast above the top of the tower.

Good Luck,   Vic
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KM1H
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 08:20:39 PM »

Thats an extremely light load and 60% is more than adequate at 2 guy levels. I wont even try to explain what has been on my 180' 45G for 20 years and on an exposed hilltop.

For heavy loading and property issues others have resorted to a length of H beam to raise the guy angle. The commercial 150' 45G installation across the street has guys about 70' out from the base and 12' H beams about 6-8' in the ground.

Rohn also makes a 4 way star mount but I dont know if they make it for such a small diameter tower, I dont have the catalog in sight Embarrassed

Carl
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 11:18:16 PM »

Use a little trig to calculate the guy wire tension at 60% tower height vs 80%.  At only 50', the additional downward vertical load shouldn't faze Rohn 45G.

The tower will have better mechanical integrity if, instead of  setting the bottom of the tower in the concrete base, you use a base plate and pier pin (see the Rohn catalogue).  That will allow the tower to sway and rotate under wind stress, relieving shear forces on the tower structure.  If it is rigidly set in the concrete, the typical Hammy Hambone method, the stress will be100% exerted onto the tower itself, possibly causing failure at the weld points of the tower sections under extreme wind conditions.
 
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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K5WLF
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 11:20:13 PM »

We have 180' of Rohn 45 for the microwave link at our university observatory. Our guy points are about 70% out and are raised about 8' above ground level using 6" well casing with about 8' in the ground. We also have a cable backstay to a deadman on each guy point. The deadman is an 8' length of 4" I-beam completely buried in the ground and encased in concrete at a 45° angle back from the tower. The guy cables for the tower are fixed to a 3/8" spreader plate attached to each guy point.

The tower has been up for 6 years and has survived measured wind gusts of 88 MPH with no problems.

Remember that the specs in the Rohn book are the ideal and that there is a lot of "scoot room" in there. Rohn (as are all tower manufacturers) is heavily into CYA. Just do the best that you can do with your guying on the tower. The tower is held in place mainly by its weight on the base. Ours sits on a pin in the concrete base without even a nut on it. The purpose of the guys is simply to keep it vertical under unusual side loading situations and to maintain a constant down pressure on the tower. Too much down pressure will crumple the tower. There are many combinations of guying which will do the job. Just make sure that your guy points are solid in the ground and that they're even around the tower. You'll be fine.

ldb
K5WLF
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KM1H
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2010, 11:49:52 AM »

I didnt want to complicate the discussion but I use a pier pin on the 180'. Solid rock is only 8-14" down at the base so a small concrete pedeastal was poured and epoxied to the washed clean and acid etched granite. It also uses torque arms and 1/4" EHS guy wire with lots of insulating Johhny balls...no relation to JN Shocked. The guy anchors are commercial twist and lock, placed in 2" holes drilled into granite and then sealed in place with epoxy made for the purpose.

Its survived many 90+ MPH gusts and ice loads with a 4 high stack of 4  el 20M on 40' booms plus a 4 over 4 4el 40M KLM's also 40' booms, and several 20' tall commercial repeater VHF/UHF sticks and side mounts. Thats a wee bit over Rohn specs but its been up 20 years last month. The base and the guys do all the work and the tower just moves around as needed. The big antennas are gone as Im no longer in an over obsessive contest mode Grin
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 01:24:19 PM »

I recall about a 100' Rohn 25G communications tower that was on a postage-stamp lot, and the guys were probably anchored at less than 50% of the tower height.  They had a lot more guys than usual, as I remember, maybe a set every 15 or 20 feet.  That tower stayed up for decades until it was dismantled when the business shut down.

I used a lot of overkill on mine, particularly at the guy anchors.  It took only a few dollars worth of additional concrete to increase the size of the anchors from what was recommended for this region to something extra HD even for coastal areas.

After the anchors were poured, the concrete guy  had some left over.  He asked me where I wanted him to dump it.  He said they would not take it back for disposal.  I knew that a pile of concrete would harden into a boulder that would be a PITA for decades to come and very expensive to remove, so I told him to top off the holes where he had already poured the anchors, which were supposed to have been buried a couple of feet below grade.  He had enough  concrete left over to fill each hole to within 6" of grade.  That way, I didn't have to worry about disposing of the extra (they must have miscalculated and made up more concrete than I had ordered), and it made each anchor ever more overkill.

I feel sorry for someone in the late 21st century who might have to remove those concrete anchors and the base pier, which I also made substantially heavier duty than recommended. Grin
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
KC9RGF
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 10:05:03 PM »

Thanks for the help guys.
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