10 Year Old's Ham Radio Tower Must Come Down

[Sam KS2AM]

[WBear2GCR]

Frank,

You must live in a real fine neighborhood there...

Maybe the thing is to not drink the tap water??

                         _-_-bear

[k4kyv]

This is the irony in all of the baloney about interference, or perceived interference.  Probably much more interference is generated by all the cheap cr&p that is out there these days.  The ambient noise floor must be a lot higher.

The broadcast industry has recognised that.  A broadcast radio consultant reportedly is petitioning the FCC to allow AM broadcast stations the option of increasing their power up to 10X above their current power level, to overcome to-day's higher noise floor.  He cites power line noise and crap from consumer electronic junk.

It has about a snowball's chance in hell of passing, but if it did, that would be a nice precedent for amateur radio as well.

http://www.rwonline.com/article/99848

As for the kid's tower (actually his father's tower, since the father was  licensed for several years before the kid),  it doesn't help that it  has such a messy tangle of cables going up.  Reminds me of some of those photos of urban power lines in India. Hell, I would consider it an eyesore if my own tower looked like that.  Certainly those cables  could be more neatly and professionally routed, and some of them are probably superfluous.

Another option the kid and his father might have, since that looks like one of those telescoping crank-up jobs, would be to install a motor so that the tower could be lowered when not in use, and raised when they wanted to get on the air. I have heard of other cases where the ham came to an agreement with the city or HOA to keep the tower but do it that way.  It might be expensive and require a lot of re-routing of the cables, but that would be better than no tower at all.

[The Slab Bacon]

Frank,
You must live in a real fine neighborhood there...
Maybe the thing is to not drink the tap water??
                         _-_-bear

Bear,
        I havent figgered out if it's the tap water or the air  

But most of the wackos are gone and the rest just love me and my wife! Just the one old buzzard 2 doors up from me, and I do anything and everything I can to antagonize him now and will continue to do so until he apologizes to my wife! It is a game now.

[Fred k2dx]

I saw somewhere how an enterprising ham beat the system by mounting a substantial crank up tower to a licensed trailer. This was parked on his property (driveway I think), erected and guyed. The neighbors and city were unable to further harass him. This was in Cal I think.

I agree the rat's nest of cables is a big negative factor for the kid, whether the tower is grandfathered or not! It would make anyone question the structural integrity and/or maintenance of the whole installation. Another possibility would be to replace the tower with a tall telephone pole, no poured base so it's not a 'permanent' structure.

'Strapping' with low antennas may not be in compliance with the RF exposure limits the feces has established... a possible whole new can of worms to open... not that I give a flying rat's arse about them. IMHO just more misguided government meddling. I believe that when renewing your license you have to state compliance with the limits. That could be more ammo for neighborhood feuds and PITA neighbors.

[The Slab Bacon]

The shame of it all is that too many ham towers and antenna installations definately look "shakey at best" and it wouldn't surprise me that some people might actually feel in danger of them falling on them. That could be a real issue. Or they look like a sloppy pig-pen mess, in that case the ham has to shoulder some of the blame for bringing it on himself.

I an a fanatic about neat orderly wiring. Since my one neighbor trimmed down the large maple tree in the back of her yard, I can now see the ugly-assed crappy job that our local utility company did patching up our power feeders after a tree took them down a few years back. It looks almost as bad as that picture of the utility pole from somewhere in India. It is downright fugly, and bugs the hell out of me.
While her boyfriend was trimming the tree he took down some of the stuff by accident, they patched it again and now it looks even worse!

That guy should clean up his act to look like a clean, professional installation and make sure it is installed per the mfr's specs so he has a leg to fight on. After all it is kind of a sloppy installation. Showing the inspectors that everything is done to spec does wonders for getting them off of your back.

Make sure your own butt is "lilly white" and THEN stand there and tell them to go pound sand, cause if your legal they cant do anthing to you!

  

[WA1GFZ]

The right wing AH losers across the street with the crazy barking dogs just moved. The whole neighborhood is happy to not hear their barking.
They trashed a beautiful house and moved.
New neighbors can't move until untill the smell leaves.
They wanted to start some crap when I rebuilt my tower and put up the LPDA. Other neighbors set them straight.
XYL wouldn't let me plink the dogs with the BB rifle. I had to agree it wasn't their fault being locked in a small yard with no attention.

[flintstone mop]

All of this info and KS2AM was trying to get us back to the poor kid and the entire Ham family that may have to bend the will of crazy neighbors. Any activity or help coming from lawyers or the ARRL??

Fred

[Pete, WA2CWA]

All of this info and KS2AM was trying to get us back to the poor kid and the entire Ham family that may have to bend the will of crazy neighbors. Any activity or help coming from lawyers or the ARRL??

Fred

Wouldn't that be a question to pose to the family with the tower issue? The only thing made available to anyone is the news report and we know how reliable that can be.

Could also re-title this thread to "how I hate my neighbor(s)"  or "my neighbors are idiots"

[Ed/KB1HYS]

If the kid or dads good in QRZ maybe drop them a line?

There was a video interview with him about an award he received from the county for emergency services he provided.  On the video at least he sounded like a pretty smart kid and to be honest, he's done more community service with his Amateur license than I have.

The vid was taken in front of his tower.  It DOES look like a crank up. Hmm.

[Detroit47]

I thought that the courts had determined that the federal regs trump the local zoning laws when it comes to ham erections... no?

             _-_-bear

I was screwed by the city of Roseville Mi. over a tower. In their ordinance it states no antenna or tower over 35 feet. So I go in front of city council armed with PRB-1 and a few cases to cite. And the end result was they justified the height restriction on the basis of safety. I could have as tall a tower as I wanted, as long as it wouldn't be able to fall in my neighbor’s yard. This means that it could only be 25 feet high being as the lots are 50 ft wide. I decided to put a beam on my chimney and a wire in the trees. My beam is over 35 feet and so is my wire but no one seems to care so I gave up the idea of a tower.
N8QPC

[K5WLF]

I gotta agree with Frank. That's an ugly set-up. All those cables flopping in the breeze look like a sackful of ar$eholes. It may be that the neighbors are as miffed about the appearance as they are about the height, but there's probably no law against ugly. So, they fight with what they've got.

I too am obsessive about making the wiring look good as well as perform well. Back when I was earning my living as a commercial electrician I was making up a big 3-phase breaker box one day and another electrician wandered by and said, "How come you're wasting so much time making perfect 90-degree angles with all those wires?" I told him I didn't want somebody in the future taking the cover off the box and saying, "Jeez, who's the sloppy SOB that wired this?"

I figure if it works good, it oughta look good and get offended by many of the projects published in QST. A lot of them look like somebody just dumped a bowl of multi-colored spaghetti in a dairy crate. Sure, it takes a bit more time to make it look good but, at least, you don't have to be embarassed to show it to folks.

Maybe if those folks would detail the wiring on the tower, it might mollify the nosy neighbors a bit.

ldb
K5WLF

[W3SLK]

Phred asked:

Any activity or help coming from lawyers or the ARRL??

Yeah right! They are about as good at helping hams in this situation as urinating into a breeze. An old ham op told me the first thing to do when you put up an antenna is to go about a month without any coax run to it. Then wait for the phone calls. If this young lad's family are truly hams, they would should have had enough sense to verify if there were any restrictions prior to erecting the tower. If it was erected according to local codes or was issued a variance, then I think he could have prevailed. The (be)League(d) is only good for sending you pamphlets regarding PRB-1.

[KB2WIG]

 " The (be)League(d) is only good for sending you pamphlets regarding PRB-1. "


Yer wrong on this one.

Just the other day I got a letter in the mail.  "  Join NOW. Get Resources. Learn more. Stay connected.

Plus, respond by deadline and get 2 Free Gifts! " (italics added)

So there, proved you wrong.

....and it had a pretty stamp.


klc

[ka3zlr]

The wire issue can be cleaned up, that ain't nutten but a little work.

 An then they can all mind their dang business does anyone
prod them about what they flush down the city sewers does
anyone care about the poisons flushed, feminine napkins flushed
hormones flushed that pollute sewer water and effect animal life
Paints dumped in water tubs...I mean there are More important issues....

Bug a ten year old little boy Dig that.

Hey How many barrels of oil being pumped out in an hour in the southland
how many million barrels per day an there's such an oil shortage Right, I'm hip an that's just one well imagine that....hey if we're gona bitch at city hall bitch at'em all..I say.

73

Jack.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

PRB-1 is a federal ruling. States then can Incorporate "PRB-1 like" Legislation within their corporate structure. This ham family is in Wisconsin. Here is the Wisconsin 2001 Assembly Bill 368, dated 2001 regulating amateur radio antennas and support structures: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2001/data/AB-368.pdf and the enactment, April 2, 2002, http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2001/data/acts/01Act50.pdf

From the ARRL web site, undated, "States with PRB-1 Laws: The folliwing states 27 states have codified PRB-1 protections into state law:

Alaska, California, Florida Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming".

Links to these specific state's legislation: http://www.arrl.org/state-statutes

Chastise the ARRL all you want; without them most hams wouldn't know where to start if a problem like this popped up at their doorstep:
http://www.arrl.org/prb-1

[ka3zlr]

That's funny most Amateurs I know or net with are pretty savy people that statement puts people down you don't know or even give a chance to show their understanding.

What is most hams..?  50 % 75 % 80 % of the total population, I'd gamble a Small percentage might need help which would be fare.

Good

[W3SLK]

Pete said:

Chastise the ARRL all you want; without them most hams wouldn't know where to start if a problem like this popped up at their doorstep:
http://www.arrl.org/prb-1

Damn straight I will Pete. Too often the (be)League(d) promotes itself as the 'go-to' authority on issues such as this. Claiming to help out and be of assistance. But also too often I seen those claims fall limp like a wet dish rag! I hate people claiming they are something they are not. This is why I'm so critical of the ARRgghhL. If just once they would step up to 'the plate and get a hit' instead of promoting bull-sheiβen, they might get some respect from me. The RFI guy that was in here, I tip my hat to. He was truly a stand-up fellow. I know he suffered some brow beating here, but I also can beleive that he was chided by the staff at Newington for chum-ing up to those critical of the (be)League(d).

[flintstone mop]

If the kid or dads good in QRZ maybe drop them a line?

There was a video interview with him about an award he received from the county for emergency services he provided.  On the video at least he sounded like a pretty smart kid and to be honest, he's done more community service with his Amateur license than I have.

The vid was taken in front of his tower.  It DOES look like a crank up. Hmm.

KC9POP is SAMM's call and I sent a yahoo email. No answer. I hope that their arse is lily white and the tower is proclaimed safe. I did read elsewhere that they did submit a permit to build. Hopefully they have a useful lawyer.

Fred

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Well, if it is a crank up tower, why not just lower it during periods of non-use?
I think the crank up thing explains the cable-ghetti too, though it's easy enough to dress the cables on a crank-up.

I hope the kid get's to stay on the air.  There are a LOT worse hobbies for kids to get into...