The Good 'Ol UPS Destruction Service

[ke7trp]

When the Box gets to the main USP hub, It will endure Drops of up to 8 to 10 ft.  There where pictures on the net. It will also take HARD hits from air rams to move it to the right location. If your packing job cant protect the item from 10 ft Drop, Dont use UPS.  

Always double box.  Wrap entire rig in large cell bubble then tape..  Then box. Then wrap that box in the same bubble and box it AGAIN.  We ship big items like this all the time and have good success this way. Buy real packing materials from a shipping supply house. Dont use light weight consumer grade bubble wrap.

C

[The Slab Bacon]

Also, I was told by a UPS employee thar "fragile" or "glass" meant use for a football or shotput. The sticker you want on your package if you must use UPS is "high value item". this means they are insuring it and heads will roll if it's broken. Usually starting an investigation to see which employee in particular is responsible and incurring disciplinary action to that individual.

[W1RKW]

I had a 10KW portable generator delivered to my door step via freight. It arrived damaged. The container stated which end was supposed to be up. It was on one side when it came off the truck. Motor mounts were F'd up and damage was done to the wiring harness.  The manufacturer fixed it free of charge, however.

I used to work for a McIntosh audio dealer.  I always liked the packing job McIntosh did with their audio equipment, especially their big audio amps. The boxes were triple thickness of the hardest cardboard made plus the bottom of the amps were bolted to 1/2" plywood.  All of that secured by triple thick extra hard cardboard folded and formed in such a way that it was impossible for the piece to move inside the container. And the sides of the container were hard as can be.  Their stuff always arrived at the store undamaged.  Their packing though probably added another 40lbs to the overall weight.

Make a package heavy enough so the gorillas can't lift it by hand and maybe it won't get tossed around??

[K1JJ]

Back five years ago, I cleaned out the shack and cellar of all gear and big parts I wasn't using. On e-bay I sold maybe 60 items and cleared about $6,000. Haven't missed a thing - good riddence.

I didn't want to deal with packaging so made each sale contingent on UPS doing ALL the boxing and shipping. Every shipped box made it through OK except for one. Many of the more fragile items were double boxed.  The single box package that didn't make it was a disaster. It weighed about 90 pounds and contained about 40 pounds of lead bullets, used in loading. Also had two loading machines and assorted tools in the box.

The buyer was POed and sent pictures. The box was torn in half with lots of missing bullet tips and tools. What a mess.  UPS paid, of course, since it was their packing job. I arranged a deal where the guy got  about 80% of his money refunded from UPS and got to keep the package too. He was vely vely happy with Tom Vu.. whew.

Bottom line is with good, double boxed packaging and a buffer of styro peanuts between the two, most stuff will survive, but not always.  

BTW, Don - Huz and I recently scored a bunch of used 8877 external anode tubes in a package deal. All of them arrived FB via UPS.  I've also received a few 4-1000A glass tubes in good corndition over the last three years. They all had the original Eimac packaging which is quite good.  However, for very fragile tubes like you mentioned, personal pickup is the only way.

As for employee package handing care - I think it will only get worse as attitudes get nastier in sync with this global bear market. Packages will get beat up even more than they do now.

T

[ka3zlr]

Try FedEx I think their employees are less disgruntled.

Hey I can feel ups emp's pain who wants to work as a casual for twenty years what teamsters haa.

73

Jack.

[KM1H]

Id like to see pictures of the shipping box and packing before commenting.

Carl

[k4kyv]

Whenever I receive a parcel containing a fragile item, I  get out my digital camera and take pictures to document every stage of unpacking.  The first picture is the box just as it arrived, then of the unpacking, making sure to clearly show how it was packed, then when the item is revealed, showing it as it is still inside the box, and finally, a photo showing any damage.

I haven't tried using the photos with an insurance company, but it has left a few private individual shippers no doubt that the item was damaged or destroyed in shipping and that I was not bullshitting them.  But I think it would be helpful for an insurance claim as well.

If it's a package  you have to sign for, refuse to sign it until you have opened it in the presence of the delivery guy and made note of any apparent or suspected damage.  The delivery guy might be impatient and in a hurry, but you still don't have to sign the paper until you are satisfied that the condition of the contents has been documented in his presence.

[KC4VWU]

I think I may have to call UPS and talk to someone about it. Their next step is to request me to repackage it and let the driver pick it up so that the claims dept. can inspect it. I could only imagine how much worse it can get trashed after that. What does everyone think the odds are of getting that front panel straight again? It has a slight bend inward at the dial face, but it is not creased. Also looks like it took a hit sideways and everything shifted a bit, but that may be a fairly easy fix. I guess the main question would be the PTO; it appears to still move freely with no binding...

If there is a chance to fix it now, I'd hate to lose that by letting them butcher it up any more.

Phil

[W3SLK]

Phil said:

As far as trying to salvage it; I'm not sure. The front panel is bent really bad and that is some pretty healthy gauge aluminum. If I could find a good donor, it might be do-able, but would be pretty labor intensive. We'll just have to see what course of rectification UPS offers first.

Phil
    Try getting in touch with Howard Mills, W3HM, over in Harpers Ferry, WV. Tell him your plight. He may be able to help you get it back in order.

[w1vtp]

Phil said:

As far as trying to salvage it; I'm not sure. The front panel is bent really bad and that is some pretty healthy gauge aluminum. If I could find a good donor, it might be do-able, but would be pretty labor intensive. We'll just have to see what course of rectification UPS offers first.

Phil
    Try getting in touch with Howard Mills, W3HM, over in Harpers Ferry, WV. Tell him your plight. He may be able to help you get it back in order.

Yeah!  Let's not forget the poor victim -- the 32V.  If you're not going to restore it to its reasonable original condition maybe you can give / sell it to someone who will give it the TLC it deserves.  I'd hate to see it become a parts 32V.  Just my humble thoughts.  Good luck. 

I've has some great results across the board on shipping an some disasters. Here's a few shots of an EICO RP100 that didn't survive that 10 foot drop and kick routine. There was no corner that wasn't rounded and distorted. It was poorly packed That frame was so badly distorted that it is a parts carcass.  One of those great DC takeup motors. shaft was bent at a 10 degree angle rendering it useless.  Sad.  That was USPS.

GL, Al

[KM1H]

Ive yet to see a properly packed item get damaged from general handling and not a forklift tang thru it.

That includes many 32V weight items such as a HT-9 that survived well in a wood crate all the way from Monterey, CA.

Another option for heavy items is motor frieght, its really not expensive if you shop around the carriers. Check out Greyhound if you and the other party have convenient terminals. It gets a lot less handling and rides in comfort.

NEVER, NEVER allow UPS to pick up that package. Demand that an inspector come to your house. ALL packing material, labels, etc must be saved.

Carl

[KC4VWU]

That's a good idea, Carl. I need to see if someone will come out and look at it. It is extremely heavy, so that alone may convince them to do that instead of shipping it back.

Phil

[wb4iuy]

Of course the other question is:  Why use UPS?  I *never* use them for anything.  Shipped 100 mod monitors all using USPS priority mail - not one unit damaged or lost.

We had to discontinue using UPS and FedEx at our businesses, unless absolutely necessary (weight and size limits at USPS). UPS was damaging loads of items, FedEx was loosing lots of stuff...and at a higher shipping cost than USPS.

[wb4iuy]

Whenever I receive a parcel containing a fragile item, I  get out my digital camera and take pictures to document every stage of unpacking.  
<snip>
I haven't tried using the photos with an insurance company, but it has left a few private individual shippers no doubt that the item was damaged or destroyed in shipping and that I was not bullshitting them.

We do the same thing on incoming packages that look damaged, and require photos from customers who claim damage. We got an email once, about a scam that someone was openly promoting on a motorcycle forum. There was a heavy (but inexpensive) part that we manufacture, that costs too much to return if damaged. It simply wasn't worth paying shipping back to us (or wrestling with damage claims), just so we could toss it in the metal recycling bin. So, people would call/email and complain that they had a bad part, and we'd ship another. We found on a forum, a person who was telling others to call and tell us that their part was bad or damaged in shipment, and that we'd ship another. They would have a spare or could sell it on ebay. A quick ebay search confirmed it was happening, and we changed our policy. One likes to think people are honest, but there's always some out there who spoil the system.

We had a very large R/C aircraft returned to our hobby shop (35%) with a forklift tang hole punched straight through the container & aircraft. The claims rep (not USPS) came to  look at the aircraft and said "It's not our damage, we wouldn't use a forklift on this". Since it had only been in their hands I asked "what did it?". The rep had the package picked up to take to claims. They replied that it wasn't their damage, and pushed me around in paperwork for months. I requested that my product be returned and they said it had been taken to a storage facility and lost. They still haven't paid the claim, despite loads of documentation.

I never have this problem with USPS. They might take a while to settle the claim, but they do it.

[Superhet66]

Sorry for your loss OM.
I've been lucky so far. Bears point about double boxing and no Inertia is correct.  
I received a dble. boxed HQ180 that looked like the Samsonite gorilla got his mitts on it when it arrived. A co-worker signed for it. It was intact and functional thanks to the buffer and foam.
I agree that parting the 32V would be unfortunate also.
                                      
                                                  DJ

[K5UJ]

If it can be made to work don't part it out, even if it can't be made to look right cosmetically.  Not everyone cares about looks.  I don't.   I realize if you are the purchaser the damage will stick in your craw and you may not want to look at it every day.  As a last resort sell it at a discount and someone who just wants a working 32V will be delighted to get it.   Damage becomes part of a rig's history and nothing lasts forever.   

[w1vtp]

Ive yet to see a properly packed item get damaged from general handling and not a forklift tang thru it.

<snip>

Carl

I actually had that happen to an expensive signal source from my antenna range.  Someone ran a forklift right through the side of the box and connected with the unit.  The large hold left by the forklift was not patched and an expensive interconnect cable was lost which I had to purchase.  If that wasn't enough, when it got back to Raytheon, our movers tried to deliver it to the wrong building -- when he couldn't find me, he just left it on the hallway and walked away.  A friend of mine called me when he saw my name on the shipping label.  Never ceases to amaze me the attitude of some people who are fortunate enough to have a job.  DON'T GET ME STARTED

Al

[N0WEK]

I've been flying Feeder aircraft for FedEx for the last 20 years and I've watched tens of thousands of packages go by on belt loaders on the way into and out of my aircraft. Almost all of the damage I see results from crappy packing by the shipper, most of it by manufacturers and distributors. The shipping containers are a bit over six feet tall and the larger and heavier items end up on the bottom of that pile, pack accordingly. I've seen companies ship car windshields stapled between two sheets of cardboard, of course it was just a bag of broken glass when I saw it, as was it's replacement the next day, the third day it showed up in a proper box.

Most of the FedEx personnel do a fine job and I don't see deliberate damage at all. Stuff does happen though and I don't count on "this side up" always working. Count on it being at least rolled over as it comes off the belt if the thing weighs more than 75 lbs or so.

I do a bit of construction and remodeling on my house and save most of my scrap plywood and lumber. I'm not at all shy of using that stuff to screw together a shipping crate to protect heavy and sensitive gear, it only takes a few minutes with a table saw and a driver with sheet rock screws. I've yet to have anybody lose or damage a shipment.

It sounds as if this case was one of those in which it was properly packed and something unusual happened to it somewhere in the process.

The typical route for a package is pickup by the route truck, transfer to the truck going to the local airport, transfer to my aircraft, transfer to a freight container at the host city airport, the can goes on the Jet to MEM, off the Jet to the big sort and then back into a container to go on the outbound Jet. When it gets to the receiving host city the can gets off the aircraft, gets sorted and then on to a city truck or another Feeder aircraft, off the Feeder, into a truck, back to the station and then into the route truck. There are at least a dozen transfers in which damage can take place. What's amazing is not how many packages get damaged but how most don't.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

In general, it's not UPS or FEDEX - it how the stuff was packed. I've received several hundred items shipped commercially in the past 8 years. Many were fragile items. Only one item was damaged. The rest were fine. Why? They were packed correctly for the size and weight.

[k4kyv]

Maybe the solution would be to pack the merchandise in a spherical container, with plenty of shock absorbing material in between.  Remember that's how NASA packaged the Mars rovers.  They hard landed and bounced multiple times onto the surface before coming to a rest, then deployed perfectly.  They must not have sustained too much damage, since they were designed to last 6 months but have been running how many years now?

That should make UPS, Fedex, etc. happy, since they try their damnedest to convert any rectangular shaped box into a sphere during shipping anyway.  Ever notice how rounded the corners of the box are when it arrives?

[WBear2GCR]

Don,


It's a little known sport. It's called "Box Bowling"... that's why the corners are rounded off...

There's a another little known sport that is oft played. It's called "Downhill Box Racing"...

 

                      _-_-


PS. It's akin to "Turkey Bowling" which is popular in supermarkets...

[w3jn]

When shipping a heavy boatancha, I cut six pieces of masonite to snugly fit all six sides of the box.  A4X8 sheet is only a couple bux at the home despot.

Wrap the radio in a plastic garbage bag.  Put it in a box that snugly fits it.  Then use rigid styrofoam on your masonite-lined box to surround said boxed radio.  The masonite helps the box keep its shape and really resists any but the boldest attempt at piercing the box 

Never had a complaint of a damaged radio...

[KB1IAW]

When my friend, Steve, K1MV, sold his Ranger on eBay I offered to build him a plywood box for shipping. I had some 3/4" shop grade birch plywood scrap left over from a recently completed cabinet project and a roll of bubble wrap from a recently purchased computer that fit the bill perfectly. Everything was glued and screwed together except for the top and the Ranger survived it's trip from Maine to PA in one piece. At the very least I would have purchased a sheet of OSB and some strapping for the project. After all the horror stories that I've read on this board I wouldn't ship anything that I cared about in a cardboard box.

[k4kyv]

Wrap the radio in a plastic garbage bag.  Put it in a box that snugly fits it.  Then use rigid styrofoam on your masonite-lined box to surround said boxed radio.  The masonite helps the box keep its shape and really resists any but the boldest attempt at piercing the box 

Make sure the garbage bag is a heavy duty one that won't leak.  Use the above precautions and fill the remaining voids with Great Stuff or similar expanding foam caulking/insulation. The "door and window" product is best, because the expansion is more gentle. Use it strictly according to instructions so the expanding foam doesn't damage the box or its contents.  It's a PITA to remove when the parcel arrives, but it holds the  contents immobile during shipping.  I have seen stuff professionally packed that way.  Just make damn sure the raw foam doesn't come in contact the merchandise; otherwise you will have the mother of all messes.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

I don't think I'd ship anything the size and weight of a 32V through anyone like UPS or FedEx due to their stated methods and requirements. Even with great packing, there are still some serious deceleration issues involved with things like big chokes and transformers hooked to chassis by hardware. This is why it is recommended to remove them. Easier to do with a big amp or R-390 with modular design, but something to consider. Carl makes an excellent suggestion with Greyhound, no conveyors, kickers, or 6-10' drops to concrete floors.

Always keep in mind that these shippers are a business and as such, throughput is the name of the game. Their job is to move your package, not babysit it from Point A to Point B. They do clearly state their expectations for packing requirements, unfortunately few bother to read.

In general, it's not UPS or FEDEX - it how the stuff was packed. I've received several hundred items shipped commercially in the past 8 years. Many were fragile items. Only one item was damaged. The rest were fine. Why? They were packed correctly for the size and weight.

Precisely. Same experience here over some 2 decades. So far, two items damaged - one via UPS, clearly from poor packing (a receiver purchased this past winter, arrived with tuning knob sticking through the side of the box), the second, from FedEx - a 45 lb rewound modulation transformer mounted on a half inch board and double boxed with solid styrofoam surrounding it. In this case, no moving parts and excellent packing, also a short distance (around 200 miles, only 1 hub and 2 terminals) so poor handling was to blame. The FedEx folks who handled it apparently didn't want to work for their wage, and a broken cast iron frame was the result. The box had no corners left and was black with dirt on all side from being slid across a concrete floor. They did finally pay out over $400 on it and it's long since been repaired. But by far - poor packing and/or judgment are the primary cause for damage these days.

Good luck with repairs, Phil. Looks like you should be able to save it. A nice transmitter when it's working right, a true workhorse.