Dayton

[K5UJ]

Jack, I agree with you when it comes to rigs and receivers and such.  I didn't think about it clearly but I guess when I wrote what I did about the early bird I had parts in mind.   Some folks are so happy to have someone interested in their parts they'll agree to a bulk deal right off the bat just to be rid of them.  Two vac. variables at 33% off or something.   The little fests have more of that with individuals.  The career hamfesters don't go in for deals as much.
But gear that's in good shape is different.

This year at Dayton I did not notice the little eBay skimmers rushing around with their family radio service HTs and swarming tables so maybe that was a one time thing  I hope.

[WA3VJB]

Early = best deals, that's been my experience the past 30 years or so, both for rigs and components.

Anyone who places a high value on their stuff and hopes to hold out, does so at the risk of being undercut by someone else a few aisles over.

On the other hand, bargains bought early take two paths -- home with happy buyer, or to flippers who sell both on ebay and sometimes immediately a few aisles over.

Rarely does someone asking top dollar drop to a bargain price late in the day, from what I've seen.

[k4kyv]

I have become much more selective about what I bring home.  Firstly, the kind of stuff that interests me has dwindled considerably over the years, and what does show up often does so at inflated prices. Secondly, I already have (sometimes multiple copies of) many the items that I would have gone ape over in years past.  If I already have two or three, what do I need another for? (one exception: anything that is "consumable" such at tubes) Thirdly and foremost, I am running out of storage space. I really need to rent some kind of trailer and try to sell a bunch of stuff I know I'll never use.  The problem with that is that I would be stuck with minding the store and maybe miss out on the proverbial solid gold modulation transformer that Murphy says would just happen to show up that year.

I can recall in years past driving a 1962 Chrysler, one of those old tanks with tail fins, wide as a barn door, that took up two parking spaces and had a trunk that would hold more than a modern day compact pick-up, and when I left a hamfest the trunk, back seat, back seat leg room, front passenger seat and front passenger leg  room would be packed solidly and the car would be practically dragging the ground. There would just be a small vacant spot on the front bench seat large enough for me to sit and operate the controls of the car.  Of course, that was back in the 60's and early 70's when nearly everybody felt obligated to "go sideband", and homebrew rigs, building parts, and such things as modulation transformers and large transmitting triodes (they didn't make good "linears") were going at below scrap metal prices and DX-100s and Rangers could be had for $25 (they still made good "cw" rigs).  While everybody else was desperately unloading that kind of stuff I was grabbing every piece I thought I might ever use. Others in attendance used to snigger as I walked by with arms full, making snide remarks about "boat anchors". Now that that stuff is nearly unobtanium and "vintage" goes for a premium price, I feel I now have the last laugh as well as my own private radio warehouse.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I have thought about getting one of those seller tickets but a friend who had one given to him this year told me if you get in there at 7 a.m. instead of 8 you don't find much because most people are still setting up for the day. 

I wish they would simply do what a local fest does and open the flea market at the crack of dawn.  The early bird gets the worm.  If you are willing to be there you should get the deals.  This one local hamfest opened on Saturday last September at 6 a.m. and we were there freezing in the dark with flashlights going over stuff for sale and got some great deals. 

This thing with holding everyone at a gate until 8 a.m. does what, make late sleepers happy?

Trotwood, were the Hamvention is really located, has an ordinance that all moving vehicle traffic in the flea market area, other then Hamvention workers in their golf-carts, must cease prior to the official morning openings. There were a number of issues years ago between early morning wandering semi brain dead flea market customers and moving vendor vehicles coming in to park and set up. Many large outdoor hamfests try to keep the customers at bay until a preset opening time to allow vendor drive in and set up. Besides the safety concerns, it also helps to limit the early morning five finger discounts as the sellers try to setup their wares.

[k4kyv]

There is not supposed to be any buying and selling going on before official opening time, but it happens anyway.  A couple of times I was able to sneak in before opening time (I got by with a little help from my friends) and scarfed up some good deals before the avalanche of people. Vendors have told me that quite a bit of swapping and trading goes on Thursday evening as well.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

There is not supposed to be any buying and selling going on before official opening time, but it happens anyway.  A couple of times I was able to sneak in before opening time (I got by with a little help from my friends) and scarfed up some good deals before the avalanche of people. Vendors have told me that quite a bit of swapping and trading goes on Thursday evening as well.

Vendor setup is Thursday for many vendors especially the ones with trailers, tents, etc. so there is a natural trader bonding of deals that go down on Thursday. Hamvention people don't seem to mind it since vendors paid big bucks for the spaces. But you need a vendor ticket to get into the flea market area.

[k4kyv]

Pete, I don't know how I missed you.  I even looked for you a couple of times in the usual part of the flea market but didn't see you.  Maybe you were weelin' and dealin' and surrounded by a crowd of people each time I happened to walk by.  I scoured the entire flea market 4 or 5 times Friday, and just kind of wandered aimlessly and randomly on Saturday, to the point that the stuff in every space looked familiar.

That little Weston audio level meter you sold me last year has served me well.

[K5UJ]

Don, how was the AM dinner?  maybe I asked already, can't remember.  Pete, I wanted to say hello also but by mid-day both days I was glazed over from parts and equipment overload.  I need to get one of those wheel carts to haul things around with.  I went inside to see if I could get a few marine pulleys from RadioWorks but they were sold out.   Here's something I found kind of surprising:  I did not see one single Johnson Ranger or any WRL gear in the flea market.  Saw two KW matchboxes.   There must have been a Ranger out there somewhere but it probably got bought before I saw it.  I wasn't looking for one but I found it odd that at Dayton, one of the most popular boat anchors was nowhere to be seen. 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Pete, I don't know how I missed you.  I even looked for you a couple of times in the usual part of the flea market but didn't see you.  Maybe you were weelin' and dealin' and surrounded by a crowd of people each time I happened to walk by.  I scoured the entire flea market 4 or 5 times Friday, and just kind of wandered aimlessly and randomly on Saturday, to the point that the stuff in every space looked familiar.

That little Weston audio level meter you sold me last year has served me well.

Same spots as previous years. On Friday, van tailgate prominently displayed the B&W 5100B out of the box. Hammarlund HQ-140XA, National NC-98, B&W Matching Unit, complete Swan 250C station and accessories, and assorted other boatanchor hardware displayed on two tables. As Friday worn on, some stuff found new homes. The Swan and B&W stuff found new homes on Saturday with two very thrilled customers. Three boxes of Lionel stuff made one customer very happy. I did not set up on Friday until about 9:30 since I had to be in the building at 9 AM.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Don, how was the AM dinner?  maybe I asked already, can't remember.  Pete, I wanted to say hello also but by mid-day both days I was glazed over from parts and equipment overload.  I need to get one of those wheel carts to haul things around with.  I went inside to see if I could get a few marine pulleys from RadioWorks but they were sold out.   Here's something I found kind of surprising:  I did not see one single Johnson Ranger or any WRL gear in the flea market.  Saw two KW matchboxes.   There must have been a Ranger out there somewhere but it probably got bought before I saw it.  I wasn't looking for one but I found it odd that at Dayton, one of the most popular boat anchors was nowhere to be seen. 

I quickly walked the Western aisles Friday morning from roughly 7:30 to about 9. Saw two Rangers, one Ranger II, several Viking I or II's (didn't stop to look close), 2 or 3 Valiants, and several matchboxes. Saw one Globe Scout 680 that looked in decent shape. Lots of other boatanchors were all over the Western area. On Saturday morning, I quickly walked two or three aisles on the Eastern side (back of building) and noticed a bunch of boatanchors still over there too. There was definitely no shortage of boatanchor equipment being sold on Friday and Saturday if you were in the market for one or two or three.

[K5UJ]

This confirms my suspicion that I missed out on good stuff by going through the gate next to the Pub and immediately turning left and going down the low number rows.   I'll bet those rigs you saw Pete were towards the North side closer to the back fence.  I wonder if you can get in at opening time back in the back along the road along the north side where the Joy Johns are.   I am not mad, only curious right now about planning strategy (if I had had the spare money to blow I would not have minded a second KW MB) since I was only hunting for parts and got most all of what I went for.  If I had wanted a Ranger I would have been annoyed hi hi.  Pete, I probably went by your table because I remember seeing a couple of 5100 rigs but I was so focused on looking for parts I probably didn't stop.  Maybe next year.  I have managed since Dayton to get a few of what I missed on-line.   The one thing I didn't find there that I am still hunting (but may have a line on) are 2 or 3 good turns counters, i.e. the quality machined ones and not the cheap plastic gear ones.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Every flea market spot to the left of the building (from the front - standing by the pub), if you follow the path all the way down to the back fence (Gate C), is considered the East side and every flea market spot to the right of the path to Gate C is considered the West side. All the boatanchors mentioned in my previous post were seen on the East side since that's the area were I walked each aisle. The East side was also the most populated with vendors. However, even in my short, fast, and abbreviated  walk on the West side on Saturday, I did see a number of boatanchors being displayed. My 5100B was hard to miss because it's original carton was sitting right below it. I snapped some photos but my camera is still buried somewhere in the van. I haven't unpacked yet since I'm going to a local hamfest this coming Sunday in NJ.

[W2DU]

Pete, in your reply #9 you said we met at the CQ Vendor party. I remember clearly that I was looking for your call sign whenever I met someone new, but I failed to see yours.

At the Vendor party I met a lot of people, some of whom I didn't really recognize during the introductions, because the din in the room overloaded my hearing aids, preventing me from understanding much of the dialog. So if you and I met I'm sorry that it didn't register at the time. Perhaps we'll have a chance to meet again when the ambient noise level is lower. I'd like that.

Walt

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Pete, in your reply #9 you said we met at the CQ Vendor party. I remember clearly that I was looking for your call sign whenever I met someone new, but I failed to see yours.

At the Vendor party I met a lot of people, some of whom I didn't really recognize during the introductions, because the din in the room overloaded my hearing aids, preventing me from understanding much of the dialog. So if you and I met I'm sorry that it didn't register at the time. Perhaps we'll have a chance to meet again when the ambient noise level is lower. I'd like that.

Walt

Walt, I said hello near the door as you were coming in and then said goodbye as you were leaving later in the evening. Since it was a party for vendors, I never wear any call sign identification. Even at hamfests, I generally wear my only my vendor identification on my shirt. Actually, the first time we met was back in the 70's at the Sarnoff Research Center. Several of us from Bell Labs Holmdel were down there for a meeting and some time during the day, either at the meeting or in some lab, you were introduced. I remember meeting you, and recognized your name, but the details of any conversation have long escaped me. Between the noise at the party and the three wedding receptions in rooms nearby, it was quite hard to hold a decent conversation. Of course, an open bar doesn't help the ambient noise level either.

[k4kyv]

This confirms my suspicion that I missed out on good stuff by going through the gate next to the Pub and immediately turning left and going down the low number rows.

Not necessarily.  Last year, just inside the gate at the pub, within minutes of opening, I scarfed up on 3 boxes full of pre-WW2 Radio and ARRL handbooks, early broadcast publications and misc other rare radio books, at $5 a box.  I suspect the guy didn't know what he had; he could have displayed all that stuff on a table and made hundreds of bux if he had taken the time.  I don't think he really cared; he said he was getting rid of extra stuff that came with an estate sale.

Then, directly across the aisle, I saw a KW-1/Johnson KW modulation transformer for $100.  I didn't need it, but passed the word along to a few people I ran into.  Later in the day I noticed it was gone.

My strategy is to make a quick scan of the whole flea market as quickly as possible, to catch any extraordinary items or deals before they are snapped up, then to make subsequent passes, each with a progressively finer toothed comb.  By afternoon I am rummaging through the cardboard boxes under the tables.

But it might not be a bad idea to rush to the middle of the area and start there, since there would be  less  competition,  than starting  near the gates, as most people tend to do.  Anything of real value is not going to last long, and the days of going to Dayton for "bargains" are long gone.

[K5UJ]

yeah, the problem is not being able to be everywhere at once.   You'd almost have to be a marathon runner to zoom over everything in the first 30 minutes.   Of course if you find anything choice and grab it, you are loaded down right then and there.  I guess you can get the seller to hold it for you for later though.    I guess the point of the $70 ticket is to be able to walk around at 7 a.m. and find out where everything good is then you know right where to go at 8 a.m.  I bet all those empty spaces in the flea market were for tickets sold to people who were using them for that and never even bothered to set anything up.  I am so naive I only now thought of that.  I had previously assumed they were no-shows or the hamvention could not sell all the flea market spaces.  I am lucky because I have friends in a local ham club and they always have a space and I can store purchases with them. 

I mostly have everything I need right now.   I have so many projects already that the rest of this year's hamfest season is going to be rather slack.   That may change by next year though.

[k4kyv]

A few years ago when there was a scarcity of flea market spaces the hamfest committee threatened to crack down on people who bought spots just to be able to park in the middle of the action.  A few people set up on the "honor system".  They would bring a bunch of old junk they wouldn't miss anyway if it got stolen, set it up on a table with prices attached along with a pencil tied to a string and a stack if index cards.  They would crack the window of the car, with instructions to take what you wanted, write the item on an index card, and poke it along with the cash through the slot at the top of the window.

That way, no-one could say they were just using the space for parking, and if they got rid of some junk and picked up a little cash to boot, better still.

Clever idea.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

yeah, the problem is not being able to be everywhere at once.   You'd almost have to be a marathon runner to zoom over everything in the first 30 minutes.   Of course if you find anything choice and grab it, you are loaded down right then and there.  I guess you can get the seller to hold it for you for later though.    I guess the point of the $70 ticket is to be able to walk around at 7 a.m. and find out where everything good is then you know right where to go at 8 a.m.  I bet all those empty spaces in the flea market were for tickets sold to people who were using them for that and never even bothered to set anything up.  I am so naive I only now thought of that.  I had previously assumed they were no-shows or the hamvention could not sell all the flea market spaces.  I am lucky because I have friends in a local ham club and they always have a space and I can store purchases with them. 

I mostly have everything I need right now.   I have so many projects already that the rest of this year's hamfest season is going to be rather slack.   That may change by next year though.

Empty spaces generally means no shows or the space wasn't sold. You generally wouldn't pay $70 for a space and not use it even if your intent was just to shop and not sell. Wave your flea market space ticket to the gate guard as you drive in your car, truck, tractor, horse and buggy, etc. and park in "your" $70 space (or $100 space if you bought a corner space). What you do after that is your business. For the last several years, you could follow the filling up of the flea market spaces and the inside spaces on the Hamvention web site. When ticket sales on active on their web site they have a complete map of the flea market that shows where spaces are empty, reserved and not paid, and actual paid for spaces. I believe its active right up until opening day and maybe even longer. Also, note that flea market vendors don't wait until 8 AM to start selling. Vendors generally have no problem taking cash before the opening bell.

[Detroit47]

I have never said no to cash on Thursday. That is why I paid $180.00 for 2 spaces and 2 tickets. The best deals are found on Thursday and Friday morning before 8: oo am. I personally did well found a lot of interesting parts and made some cash. It was a good swap best weather in years.

73 John N8QPC

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I have never said no to cash on Thursday. That is why I paid $180.00 for 2 spaces and 2 tickets. The best deals are found on Thursday and Friday morning before 8: oo am. I personally did well found a lot of interesting parts and made some cash. It was a good swap best weather in years.

73 John N8QPC

I never set up on Thursday. I run around and spread the word what I'm going to be selling Friday and Saturday. I generally don't set up Friday morning until about 9:30 AM unless weather is threatening for later in the day. My best selling deals went down Saturday afternoon, complete Swan 6 meter station, boxed B&W stuff, several high end vintage CB's although all the Lionel stuff went late Friday morning. Parts and "stuff you can't live without" moved along on both days.

[Detroit47]

Pete
 We walked around on Thursday till we say everything. And set up at sundown people just shoped as we setup. We didn't open up till noon Friday for sales too busy shopping. Ushally all the deals are gone by noon Friday.

John

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Pete
 Ushally all the deals are gone by noon Friday.

John

Depends on who the "deals" favor. Vendors who move their products at any ridiculous price generally are counting their money in their little money bag by noon. Vendors who really know the value of their selling items will wait for the "money men" who generally appear late Friday or on Saturday. Of course, this can vary depending on any weather threats. As a vendor, I learned long ago, never to take the first deal that comes along. By the end of Saturday, every item I price targeted that sold, I got within 5% or less.