Why no commercially made open wire spreaders on the market?

[N3DRB The Derb]

here they are. i think the box cost me a entire dollar.

that's solid #8 copper lying in that groove.

[Bill, KD0HG]

I have some of those little 2" spreaders, and use them with #10 copperweld.  My proposed open wire line from the dawg house to the shack will be made with #8 copperweld, because I have a big spool of it and have run out of #10.  None of the EFJ spreaders will take wire that big.  I have seen some 6" long brown glazed ceramic spreaders, about 1" in diameter, with a groove large enough to accommodate #8,  but not recently.  I would pay $5.50 each for enough of those to build the line, but don't think I would need 25.

I'll probably order some 3/4" or 1" polycarbonate rod stock and make my own.  That stuff seems almost indestructible and supposedly is an excellent rf dielectric, better than plexiglass.

Now, what about standoff insulators to affix the open wire line run to the poles that will support it?  I had thought of ceramic electric fence insulators, but the metal nail that  runs through the ceramic insulator would probably cause breakdown with rf voltage. I need something mechanically sturdy that would attach to a metal or wooden cross bar, but leave a long insulative path between the feeder wires and any metal or lossy wood.

Don, use these bad boys with that #8 and you'll never have to worry about trespassers again..

[k4kyv]

Derb,

I already have some extra copies of those.  I thought you meant standoffs to mount on the support poles.  Thanks anyway, but I  don't need any more 2" spreaders.

[N3DRB The Derb]

ok gotcha. I have some of those too but not enough for the distance you're gonna run.

[W1GFH]

Here's a guy who makes repros of NOS parts; coil forms, sockets, etc. He's considering a run of ceramic beehive insulators. He might be persuaded to do ceramic spreaders.

http://sites.google.com/site/kshamradioparts/

[K5UJ]

At Dayton last year someone, either the Wireman or Radioworks was going to make and sell spreaders.  But for an insulated support interface between the wires and a post, something would probably be cooked up with PVC, a saw, and a hot glue gun.


Rob

[W1GFH]

http://sites.google.com/site/kshamradioparts/home/ladder-line-spacer

Huh, interesting, he ALREADY makes 'em!

[ZS6TMV]

If I may be so bold as to shamelessly flog my own merchandise: we have been making and selling black polycarbonate clip-on 84mm. wire spreaders in South Africa for about 2 months now. Shipping to the US is certainly possible, but how economical that is would depend on order size etc.

Details: http://www.instantladderline.co.za.

Hope this helps. :-)

73 Frank ZS6TMV

[W2PFY]

If I may be so bold as to shamelessly flog my own merchandise

Hello, welcome to the BB.

Nice spreaders, do you think you could put on your web pages the dimensions in inches for us in the US?


I'm too dumb to figure that out

[WD8BIL]

Terry.......

84/25.4(mm per inch) = 3.307"
just shy of 3 3/8"

[k4kyv]

Terry.......

84/25.4(mm per inch) = 3.307"
just shy of 3 3/4"

You mean 3⅜"?

[WD8BIL]

That's what I meant but my fingers didn't listen!

[N0WEK]

I just got a reply back from Frank this morning.

I may order 250 of them since it doesn't add much to the total. I'll have plenty of extras, since I'm going to need less that 100 ft of line....

<snip>



They are produced locally in South Africa.

>  I'd like a quote on shipping for quantities of
> 100 and 250 to Minneapolis, MN USA.

If delivery via surface mail is acceptable (airmail from South Africa
to the US would be very expensive) your order would come to this:


For 100 wire spreaders:

100 spreaders:          $ 9.50
Postage (surface mail): $21.60
                       ----------
Total amount due:       $31.10


For 250 wire spreaders:

250 spreaders           $20.75
Postage (surface mail): $26.00
                       ----------
Total amount due:       $46.75


If you are interested in ordering, you can pay via my Paypal account
if the Netherlands. (When I migrated from the Netherlands to South
Africa seven years ago I kept my Dutch paypal account, since online
transactions into South Africa are a pain, and very expensive.) Your
order will be dispatched upon receipt of payment, and you will receive
a notification of this, as well as the estimated time to delivery
(which for surface mail could be three to four weeks). You will be
provided with a tracking number if the SA postal service provides one
for international shipments (I am not sure that they do but I will
inquire).

> Greg Cotton N0WEK
> 5227 33rd. Ave. South
> Minneapolis, MN 55417

Will this be your preferred delivery address?

I'm hoping to hear from you soon!


73,

Frank ZS6TMV / PA3GMP
Cell: 082-294-2648
Highveld repeater (near Jo'burg): 145.7875MHz

========================================================
Instant Ladder Line clip-on wire spreaders
info@instantladderline.co.za
www.instantladderline.co.za
====================

[WBear2GCR]

Looks to me like we want to get the quatity right up to the weight limit on the postal side to minimize the cost of the postage vs. the part!!

$26bux for the postage and <$26 for the part(s)!!

I'm in on this... I'll take 250 spreaders or some similar amount, assuming we can beat back the postage devil??

                         _-_-bear

[WBear2GCR]

Now, after I have opened my BFM (big fat mouth) it seems to me that there could be a problem with these under ice loading conditions, as there is a slight offset of the spreader vs. the clip part. It might be a better product if the clip (ends) were rotated 90 degrees so that the faced outwards.

The other thing is that they will tend to rock up and down under wind conditions, with the offset... might not be an issue...

I guess one could alternate the direction that the spreaders are clipped on to the wires so that the line would "S" not "C" under ice loading... maybe it's not really an issue... dunno.

The other thing is, and I do not know if it is practical but molding out of polyester might be better, as it is far less UV and weather sensitive. Polypropylene line dies pretty quickly in the outside elements, but again maybe this is a non-isssue.

                      _-_-bear

[k4kyv]

The other thing is, and I do not know if it is practical but molding out of polyester might be better, as it is far less UV and weather sensitive. Polypropylene line dies pretty quickly in the outside elements, but again maybe this is a non-isssue.

Frank says he uses polycarbonate, not polypropylene.  It's the same stuff as Lexan. I have heard conflicting reports about its UV resistance, but the opaque black should suffer less damage in any case.  Some people say they have made antenna insulators out of crystal clear Lexan, which have lasted 30 years or more.  It's supposed to be more rugged mechanically than plexiglass.  I used corrugated polycarbonate sheeting designed to cover car-ports for the roof on the dawg-house, and the stuff seems indestructible. I could beat it with a hammer and it would pop back into shape with barely perceptible dents. It has survived at least one summer in the sun with no visible deterioration.

[Detroit47]

Have you seen this stuff Ladder Snap?
http://www.73cnc.com/73cnc/laddersnap.html

[KL7OF]

The sky lights and side windows in my Super Cub are made from Lexan.....They have withstood sitting outside in the long days of Alaskan summers for 12 years with no problems..

[John Holotko]

I used that 450 Ohm window line on an  antenna I put up in 1989. 20 years later it was still fine after enduring two decades of ice, rain, nor'easters, etc. Finally, the antenna was destroyed in a powerful nor'easter that struck this area in March of 2010 with hurricane force winds.

I am putting up a new antenna and I am debating whether to go with window line again or, to build some true ladder line. I am tempted  to go with real ladder line, although, wiindow line has served me well in the past.

Last time I build a stretch of ladder line I used sections of PVC tube with notches cut into the ends as spreaders.

I believe that in the old days they used wooden spreaders  that were  soaked in paraffin or creosote. Is anyone familiar with this ?

[WBear2GCR]

Not sure which product ur thinking about Don, but here is the South African one:

http://www.instantladderline.co.za/specs.html

    *  Material: polypropylene with UV blocker
    * Weight: 2.5 grams
    * Outer dimensions: 98.5 x 14.5 x 5.5mm
    * Wire spacing (conductor centre to conductor centre): 84mm.
    * Usable wire diameter, insulated, including insulation: ± 2 - 3.5 mm.
    * Usable wire diameter, bare: ± 2 - 2.5 mm.
    * Recommended spacing between spreaders: ± 50cm.

                            _-_-bear

[W2PFY]

Have you seen this stuff Ladder Snap?

His are rather big bucks.

[N0WEK]

Have you seen this stuff Ladder Snap?

His are rather big bucks.

Those are cheap compared to his tuning knobs and custom plate caps; nice stuff, but REALLY pricey!

[ZS6TMV]

$26bux for the postage and <$26 for the part(s)!!

Unfortunately, yes. And that's via surface mail!

Having a reseller in the US somewhere would probably be much more economical, but right now just mailing the stuff overseas is the only option for me. Which is a pain, because the problem with high shipping costs works both ways: whenever South African hams want to order something from sellers in the US (say, on Ebay or similar deals) we have the same problem with high postage.

73 Frank ZS6TMV

[ZS6TMV]

Frank says he uses polycarbonate, not polypropylene. 

No, Frank says he's using polypropylene. :-) With a UV blocker that is capable of dealing with the South African sun - and its relatively high UV levels that make short work of any plastic with insufficient UV resistance.

73 Frank ZS6TMV

[ZS6TMV]

Now, after I have opened my BFM (big fat mouth) it seems to me that there could be a problem with these under ice loading conditions, as there is a slight offset of the spreader vs. the clip part. It might be a better product if the clip (ends) were rotated 90 degrees so that the faced outwards. The other thing is that they will tend to rock up and down under wind conditions, with the offset... might not be an issue... I guess one could alternate the direction that the spreaders are clipped on to the wires so that the line would "S" not "C" under ice loading... maybe it's not really an issue... dunno.

The clips grip the wire tightly enough so that I personally have never seen one move of its own accord in any weather conditions I've ever experienced. But your mileage may vary - I have never lived in a country with tornado's or tropical storms. :-) However I am sure the shape won't be a significant issue.

On a similar note (and I have to be honest here): I am also not sure how the material will behave at, say, 20 or 30 degrees below freezing point, not having experienced this at any of my QTH's, either.

The other thing is, and I do not know if it is practical but molding out of polyester might be better, as it is far less UV and weather sensitive. Polypropylene line dies pretty quickly in the outside elements, but again maybe this is a non-isssue.

That's what the UV blocker in the plastic is for. Unprotected PP is indeed not very UV resistant and tends to crack, crumble, flake and otherwise deteriorate fairly quickly (six to 24 months depending on climate and UV levels).

73 Frank ZS6TMV