3955 group website steals article from amfone.net

[W2VW]

That's what you get for telling people their crappy receivers are crappy. What were you thinking?

Some of those "crappy" receivers can be made to perform excellently with just a few, easily reversible modifications. 

Of course, if you insist that everything "vintage" must remain 100% "stock" at all costs, then you're stuck with what you've got.

You've got the wrong guy Don. I have no problem making changes to my stuff. If you were closer you would have been able to hear my rice box which used two R390A I.F. strips. One on receive and one on transmit. I know you worked the 1998 W3PRL station from Gaithersburg. That used my BC-610 with an 833 modulated by 813s and a kilowatt mod xfmr.

The crappy receiver list may have been ever so slightly inspired by some backlash to collectors. Members of the writing's original audience would be very familiar with the coos.

Seeing the Mohawk on the same list as a certain St. James covered unit looked strange.
That passband tuning was really trick especially for the vintage. The list may have been calculated using    actual usefulness / price X hype.

I remember an exchange about this when Johnny's work was first posted. The big problem with JN is he's almost always right.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Pretty much what I was thinking. Posting something in public doesn't make it public property. It allows access, not ownership. And justifying bad behavior with more bad behavior still doesn't make it right.

There have been more than a few occasions, some of them very public, where an individual posted something on their website that had been purloined from elsewhere, only to get notice from the owner of their attorney to remove it immediately. Come to think of it, part of the whole Heathkit mess has to do with manuals posted for free download on BAMA. You could make the argument that it wasn't BAMA's material to start with and never should've been posted, but you'd have to apply the same argument in the case of the 3955 group.

[KA1ZGC]

Precisely.

My house can be seen by the public, but that doesn't make it public property.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Don't feel bad Johnny. I had some of my stuff show up on a commercial site. Imagine someone trying to make money of something I wrote! The laugh is on them.   

[W2INR]

Copyright on the Web seems to be a difficult concept for people to understand. If you did not write or create the article, graphic, or data that you found, then you need permission from the owner before you can copy it. Remember, when you use someone's graphic, HTML, or text without permission, you are stealing, and they can take action against you.


I recommend the the Dummy webmaster do a little research before he runs a web site. I had an attorney go over every aspect of this site . He also gave me the outline for the items we needed to moderate. ( another concept many on here can't grasp and put me in a liable state for their fun at my cost )

I will give the Dummy webmaster a few days and then if need be I will take action.


It all goes back to why work hard when I can steal it.

G

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

It all goes back to why work hard when I can steal it.

Ain't that the truth! From internet nobody to somebody in 10 minutes or less, simply by lifting someone else's work.

[W1RKW]

The same goes for this website.  When posting information from another source it's best to post the link rather than copy/paste the subject matter from that source.  On many occasions AMFone members copy/paste stuff from other sources without providing the necessary credit or having the permission to do so.  That puts AMFone in a precarious legal position.

[w3jn]

No email response to my second request to remove this; however, it's now been removed.

[KX5JT]

I was sure pissed off when I saw a photo of MY Heathkit SB-200 on a ebay auction.  The guy never admitted to stealing my picture or that it was not the actual SB-200 for auction but I was more pissed at the fact that he was misrepresenting the product he was actually selling.  The picture was taken by ME on my workbench.  I emailed eBay and him but nothing ever came about from it... the auction continued and as far as I know, the winner did NOT get MY SB-200.

*shrug*

[w3jn]

If the guy is dumb enough to hotlink his image to your website, just replace the image with a picture of a nasty garbage can or a burned up CB amp or something.

[KX5JT]

Nah, he had actually stolen the image as his own.  It wasn't hotlinked.  Now THAT woulda been great! lol

[Opcom]

Yep, you know you're lame when you have to lift the work of others to post on your site in hopes of appearing relevant. I seem to recall someone who is a member here doing the same thing with articles on the AMWindow a few years back. Wonder if this lid shows up in the membership list? If so, he might've also felt so-entitled.

I bet a thread on QRZ and a few other sites about the 3955 group would have some impact. QRZ is full of net trolls and re-posters. Is it really a 'group' or just another one of these nit-wit 'SEE ME!!' types?

If that is the case, you could contact them and let them know. People do all kinds of things and do not even think about it. Or maybe even forgot it and would do different if it was called to their attention. Something like - 'hey did you realize that content is from x website?"

old books is another issue. Depending on the date, and if it was renewed or not, the &copy might have been lost. For website stuff, if you wrote it, you pretty much own it, and so do your great grandchildren..

"Automatic Copyright
Under the present copyright law, copyright exists in original
works of authorship created and fixed in any tangible
medium of expression, now known or later developed, from
which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated,
either directly, or indirectly with the aid of a
machine or device. In other words, copyright is an incident
of creative authorship not dependent on statutory formalities.
Thus, registration with the Copyright Office generally is
not required, but there are certain advantages that arise from
a timely registration. For further information on the advantages
of registration, write or call the Copyright Office and
request Circular 1."

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

And sometimes it really is an oversight or mistake. I recall this happening here with some of your transformer catalogs, Pat. Another member had apparently saved them at some point, then later sent them to Gary for placement on 'fone. But you were cordial about it as I'm sure Johny was in offering to allow use with proper credit. So the webmaster is at the mercy of trusting users to an extent, and can end up getting blind-sided for someone else's mistake or dishonesty.

In this case, it looks like the webmaster was the one who misappropriated John's article, for which there really isn't any good explanation. As John said, this stuff is for the use, enjoyment, and education of others and is meant to be shared. Why is giving proper credit such a difficult thing to do?

[ka3zlr]

To Me,

I think it's more important to keep it in sight, Give the credits up and post it.

How hard is that, it was much more work taking it up an down...

Made no sense to me taking it down.

73
Jack.

[W2INR]

And sometimes it really is an oversight or mistake. I recall this happening here with some of your transformer catalogs, Pat. Another member had apparently saved them at some point, then later sent them to Gary for placement on 'fone.

That happens all the time. People will submit items to be stored on the site for all to see and I have to assume the material being submitted is legally theirs. If not we have issues.


G

[K1JJ]

Another area that some of us may not be aware of...

It's also a violation to use another author's article as a "close" guide to write your own worded version without listing it as a source, etc. Years ago I wasn't aware of this.

Back in the 80's I wrote a weekly financial column for a major newspaper as side publicity for a series of seminars I was doing around the state, as a stockbroker. All of the articles were my original work until one week I got lazy and decided to write one based on an article I read from a newletter. I wrote it in my own words but the ideas were someone else's.   It was widely published - and then the crap hit the fan....

It was an honest dumbell mistake on my part. The author contacted me and the newspaper - POed. Nothing became of it, but I was "axed" from the writing assignment and that was that. I learned a good lesson and from that point on I always wrote my own work and used my own ideas. (Including the 100+ financial articles I later published on the web in 2007)

However, just what IS our "own" work? We all stand on the shoulders of others. Most everything we say and do was learned from somewhere else.... little is truly original. We are parrots, most of us...

So, we might learn from my dumbass mistake of long ago and stand on MY shoulders..

T

[ke7trp]

Humans always want credit.  As a result. You will have authors wine like babys if they see anything that is close to what they wrote. 

To me, The whole point of this Website is to share information and recieve information. If you have information that you dont want others to view, DONT POST IT.  If you post it on the web, You dont own it and you probably wont get credit.

Its really that simple

C

[W3FJJ]

Johnny spent alot of time, characterizing the various receivers, His expertize, with  first hand knowledge of each,  he should get
credit for the FB summary..

I'd be pissed too, That it was copied,   it's that simple....  CHUCK

Humans always want credit.  As a result. You will have authors wine like babys if they see anything that is close to what they wrote. 

To me, The whole point of this Website is to share information and recieve information. If you have information that you dont want others to view, DONT POST IT.  If you post it on the web, You dont own it and you probably wont get credit.

Its really that simple

C

[W2INR]

To me, The whole point of this Website is to share information and recieve information. If you have information that you dont want others to view, DONT POST IT.  If you post it on the web, You dont own it and you probably wont get credit.

I know you were already told you were dead wrong with your thoughts. I can see it is okay in your mind to steal.

So I guess you mean if you don't want anything stolen don't own it ?  Nice set of values there Bucky - - - - - -

G

[Opcom]

And sometimes it really is an oversight or mistake. I recall this happening here with some of your transformer catalogs, Pat. Another member had apparently saved them at some point, then later sent them to Gary for placement on 'fone. But you were cordial about it as I'm sure Johny was in offering to allow use with proper credit. So the webmaster is at the mercy of trusting users to an extent, and can end up getting blind-sided for someone else's mistake or dishonesty.

In this case, it looks like the webmaster was the one who misappropriated John's article, for which there really isn't any good explanation. As John said, this stuff is for the use, enjoyment, and education of others and is meant to be shared. Why is giving proper credit such a difficult thing to do?

looking back at that, I now find it hard to believe I was even upset about it (That was before I even knew what this site was really about. Now it could copy most anything and I would not care). I had forgotten about it. They were scans of catalogs, I didn't even write them. Well it does happen, I have removed items from my site from time to time that were sent to me by one person and another later complained.

In kind, the modulation transformer terminal wiring charts from amwindow used to be on my site in the transformer section. They showed up on a mailed CD along with a few transformer catalogs a fellow had scanned. I was horrified to find that out after complaining from a high horse about the catalogs that were posted.

I think the biggest thing that ever made me mad was finding my stuff on a CD on ebay. Another was finding my written articles in frames with someone else's ads on the biggest electronics hobby site in India, affiliated with the big electronics magazine there. Using my bandwidth too! They ignored my complaints as well. As a last resort I contacted the legal deptartments of some of the advertisers listed on the offending pages (Intel, National Instruments..) and the problem was cleared up as if by magic.

Small or non commercial pages and sites come and go. I do save articles to my off-line storage in all cases where I have linked to a small page's content, just in case it disappears I can write something upon the precepts of the saved data and list references. Any more I always ask first to avoid misunderstandings and trouble. My point of this paragraph is that the more places an item is, the more likely it is to survive and serve the future. Furthermore, If a guy has a site that has articles on cats, tires, stamps, and electron microscopes, and another person's site has a huge focus on electron microscopes, the author would be much more widely read on the EM site because more people will find it. Search engines purport to be open and level, but I guarantee I could pay google enough and come up top on searches for AM. Engines also rank low the sites that have a broad focus and rank high the sites that have spceific intent.

I agree the 3995 webmaster there looks pretty guilty. In terms of availability of important information, it is not an intractible situation yet if our author here wants the article to be posted on the 3995 site (Probably).

As far as expecting anything valuable that is posted on the www to be copied and posted online, it is always a risk and the author has to determine their own attitude about it. When thinking about the Quote: "To me, The whole point of this Website is to share information and recieve information. If you have information that you dont want others to view, DONT POST IT.  If you post it on the web, You dont own it and you probably wont get credit.", - to me the point of posting items is not theft but to replicate obscure or hard-to-find but useful information and insure its survival going forward. The quote is technically wrong though because if you write it you do legally own it. Don has opined several times that all the old books will rot and represent a huge loss. Websites rot as well, without regard to any actions taken to repost items or not.

lots of good points to be learned in this thread.

[W3RSW]

Well, you all have lit the fire.  I've re-read the whole thread and think this:

If your really serious about any sort of lititgation, formal or informal, discovery and so forth then one of the first things asked is what has been past practice, perceived infractions, allowable copying of any sort and the purging, defense against and followup, i.e., what has already been allowed.

I've sent a direct scan of modulation transformer impedance data to a similar site. The product is no longer made, but is this still copyright infringement?  Of course the manu's name is all over the sheet.  Do we look at all material submitted as closely?

(I started to modify this post and got opcon's response being typed at the same time as mine.- wow., software cross.  But wanted to add that I was in no way trying to dis our site's webmaster.  His gracious and expensive contribution in time, money and effort has allowed us a great forum for years.)

And as far as copyright infringement from the 3955 group goes and their claim of ownership goes, this says it all.

Website Design by W2KJM "The GRAND Dummy" © 2008

Notice his 'copyright' symbol.  Is he copyrighting just the website or all the information contained therein?  He may be really hanging out there.

So Gary, you've been possibly rolled in to a lot more work than the bulk of this site's users desire.  And may have already crossed the Rubicon.

What I'm trying to say is that Pandora's box is now open. Do we really want to get hissy over this or just ask that info be referenced or attributed to what we hope is an original source. ?

[ke7trp]

I did not mention the content of his article or the man that wrote it.  Dont put words in my mouth.  I enjoyed his article.

[KA1ZGC]

If you post it on the web, You dont own it and you probably wont get credit.

Its really that simple

...except for the fact that the law doesn't even remotely see it that way. You need to study up on intellectual property rights before telling everyone else how they work.

The internet is no different than any other medium. It was illegal when a journalist for the New York Times plagiarized George Carlin. Just because Carlin performed his routine in front of an audience didn't make it their property. The paper got sued, and the journalist got fired, because what he did was morally wrong, and entirely illegal.

The same is true of the internet. If you don't believe me, study the relevant case law.

Making something publicly viewable does not make it public property, ever.

[w3jn]

What I'm trying to say is that Pandora's box is now open. Do we really want to get hissy over this or just ask that info be referenced or attributed to what we hope is an original source. ?

Rick, nobody threatened litigation.  They were told either attribute the article and get Gary's permission, or remove itt.  They chose instead to remove it and I don't think they even asked Gary. 

It isn't as though the information is gone.  It's right here for anyone to read. Instead of reading it as "one man's opinion on a SSB net website, by seeing it here they will see the context.  And hopefully browse around the site and maybe even get interested in AM in the process. 

Finally, since the article here has my callsign on it (and the 3955 one didn't), people can PM me and offer their contrasting opinions (!) and questions.  I still get plenty of PMs from that article!

[w3jn]

Humans always want credit.  As a result. You will have authors wine like babys if they see anything that is close to what they wrote.  

To me, The whole point of this Website is to share information and recieve information. If you have information that you dont want others to view, DONT POST IT.  If you post it on the web, You dont own it and you probably wont get credit.

Its really that simple

C

As I told you previously and TOm ZGC again pointed out, you are dead wrong.  Seems like that's the case around here whenever anyone says "it's just that simple" 

You are correct that the point of THIS website is to share information, and there's nothing at all secret in the article.  I'm not sure what the point is of the other website nor why they felt it necessary to take the article and add some grammatical errors.

If getting somewhat pissed over someone stealing your work (and in Gary's case, his site content) is "wining like a baby", so be it.