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Author Topic: johnson Viking II hammond 812 help need details  (Read 5478 times)
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kc2etm
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« on: February 06, 2010, 10:06:32 AM »

hi ive read some mods on this board about feeding my 807's with a hammond 812
but i have not found any real details about this i am new to tube am rigs
what i need to know is there an additional circuit involved here or is it as simple as feeding the secondarys of the transformer into the 807's i think i saw somewhere you need to add two resistors on the 807 side then your audio gear goes directly into the transformer could someone please calrify this for me as i have searched and searched but find people mentioning it but no detailed mods  the driver transformer is bad in my unit and i have a rack so i would like to just bypass the entire audio circuit in the viking II oh it is the cdc model by the way
thanks
fred
kc2etm
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N4LTA
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2010, 09:03:31 AM »

A you speaking about the current Hammond 812 transformer?

It is a low level broadcast quality transformer with a mic or line input to one or two grids. It can only stand 0.4 ma of DC bias and is rated at +15 dBm.
That is less than 40 mW.

Pat
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kc2etm
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 09:24:34 AM »

One place i saw this setup is here with a hammond 841
http://www.qsl.net/ve7khz/VikingII.html
the i saw it here with an 812
http://www.mail-archive.com/amradio@mailman.qth.net/msg17939.html

neither place really goes into alot
of detail but the 841 seems to be used
the way id like to do it
thanks
fref
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N4LTA
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2010, 10:42:29 AM »

Yes - They are using it to replace the modulator driver transformer and it should work very well as it is a broadcast quality audio transformer. The secondary is center tapped for feeding both grids directly. It should be a drop in replacement. If you need a new one - I can help you.

Pat
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kc2etm
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2010, 11:30:06 AM »

Well i already have the 841 transformer
but where im confused is what pins to feed
my balanced audio line into and what pins
are center tap and the two grid pins
the transformer pins are laid out in a circular
pattern they are numberd theres a diagram
here http://hammondmfg.com/560.htm
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N4LTA
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2010, 05:04:25 PM »

The high impedance side would go to the grids (primary) - I would think - and the low impedance - line side to the SE driver.

Others might know this rig better than me.

Pat
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kc2etm
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2010, 10:36:33 PM »

so how much drive do you think this setup will need do you think an average priced amplified mixing board would do it or would i need a real high powered studio board
thanks
fred
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N2DTS
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2010, 11:05:25 PM »

807's want about a half watt of drive and 100 volts voltage swing.
The easy way is to use an 8 ohm to 5000 ohm (or 10,000 ohm center tapped) transformer and drive it with a small audio amplifier.
The audio amplifier wont much care when the grids draw current.

You might be able to use a line level signal into a transformer for AB1 tubes that do not draw grid current...
For that I still use an 8 ohm audio amp though, a 20 watt amp will drive 811a's, four 100TH's, or a pair of 4cx250b (ab1) tubes just fine.

In some cases, I think you can get a bit of power out of something like 807's in AB1...

Brett
 

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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2010, 08:46:02 AM »

I would be concerned about using the 800 series Hammonds if you need over 35-40 mW. They are rated at  +15dBM max.

pat
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WBear2GCR
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Brrrr- it's cold in the shack! Fire up the BIG RIG


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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2010, 09:12:59 AM »


So what you would have to do is to capacitively couple this hammond to the grids, drop two high value (100k?) resistors one from each grid  then the center point going to the bias circuit. This would permit only AB1 operation and keep the transformer from ever having to deliver current... one would likely want to drop a resistor across the secondary to provide some sort of resistive load as well... CT to ground. drive it with whatever you like... you just need the requisite voltage swing.

                  _-_-bear

EDIT: another thought - the exact ratio of transformer for this application is almost irrelevant. What is needed is the ability to drive the grids into AB2 (current), which implies a suitable ratio (to get the required voltage) and enough current on the primary to back it up. Then the core size needs to be sufficient for the driving power - what did we say a watt or two? The enough current to back it up is really the key, which is why there was a suggestion to use a small power amp. There's no DC on either side of the the thing, so nothing exotic or fancy is needed in terms of a transformer, just the turns ratio that results in the source's swing providing the required secondary side swing. Of course you want halfway decent frequency response, but that ought to be reasonably non-critical.

My thought is a "line to 70v" transformer - the type used for distributed speaker installations. Some have a "140v" tap as well, I have a few of them... they're cheap and available, have good freq response and come in various "wattage" sizes. Drive the primary with an "8 ohm" little power amp, and ur good to go... I think I've found a CT in the winding scheme on the multi tapped ones I have... and IF the "CT" is off a little, you could set it up so that you automatically get a bit more postitive swing than negative! Grin

                      _-_-bear
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_-_- bear WB2GCR                   http://www.bearlabs.com
kc2etm
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« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2010, 11:30:55 AM »

Hi bear thanks for all the info
i do have a 8 ohm to 70v pa style
transformer can i use this feeding the 8
ohm side with an amplifier i have that
is 50 watts the out to the grids with two
100k resistors would this work
thanks
fred

Just had another thought i think i have
in my attic a pa amp with a 70v output
would this be even easier to implement
thanks for all you help with this
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WBear2GCR
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 12:54:09 PM »



you'd have to be judicious so as not to FRY the grids... you'll likely want to put a series resistor to the grids to limit the max current. The other thing is that you'll have to see how much voltage swing you actually get out of the 70v side... remember now you need a CT secondary!

The usual 70v "PA amplifier" is not going to give you the CT which permits the phase splitter function to drive the PP grids.

That's why I mentioned that I have some "70V" transformers with a "140v" tap... alternately some of them have multiple primary taps, and you can still find a CT but have to use say a "4 ohm" input winding to get the required voltage swing out...

A good idea is to look at the secondary voltages with a low voltage AC transformer (5 volts is nice here) on the primary and the DVM on the secondaries to see what the voltage ratios are between taps on the secondary side... a scope & sig gen is perhaps better, but the 5 volt transformer or 6.3 volt will do the job, just watch the secondary voltage, it is stepped up... a small xfmr will keep you from getting an accidentally nasty shock.

                      _-_-bear
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_-_- bear WB2GCR                   http://www.bearlabs.com
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