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Author Topic: Antenna Matching & Velocity Factor  (Read 8473 times)
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w5hro
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« on: December 28, 2009, 10:16:25 PM »

Unfortunately this is another spin off topic from the other recent feedline & antenna topics (or arguments Grin)

After much discussion I decided to try some experiments today and I discovered a very interesting thing. I connected an old 1:1 current balun that came from a ready made G5RV antenna made by Radio Works that I purchased sometime back in the early 1990’s to my center-fed Zepp. The antenna is 130' with 90' of 390 ohm 14-gauge ladder line. The 390-ohms is now debatable. The velocity factor of the 390 ohm line in question is suppose to be really close to 450 ohm line, but I could never find an exact number. If you research on the net you will see VF numbers for both 450 ohm and 300 ohm line ranging anywhere from .98 to .80 and there is no consistency. Most of what I found said a VF of .90 should be about right.

Here is what's interesting; I connected the 50 ohm input side of the balun to my MFJ-259 HF/VHF SWR analyzer and it shows my antenna is resonate right at 4.7Mc instead of 3.6Mc. I've recently been using a Viking II with an old Ameritron "T" tuner with a built in balun and it won’t tune on 75 meters, but it tunes fine on the higher bands (well sort of on 40 meters). I think that’s partly due to the limitations of the "T" tuner because my HB linked coupled tuner tunes the Zepp just fine on all bands including 160 meters.

I found several sections of my old #14 ladder line and I kept adding 10’ at a time. With every 10 feet it dropped the Zepp’s resonance down lower, but here is the deal; I had to add about 50’ more to get the resonance down 3.6Mc. To make a long story short the feedline must be slightly longer than the antenna itself to be self resonate at 3.6Mc. The Zepp is 130’, but the ladder line must be around 140’ and that is what doesn’t make any sense.

The next step was to determine if the balun might be bad. I know for a FACT each 1/4 wave leg of the Zepp is exactly 65’. I measured both legs twice before putting it up and I know the ladder line’s length is also correct. Fortunately I had another 1:1 current balun, which is nothing more than a 1’ piece of 50 ohm coax with ferrites slipped over the coax’s PVC jacket. Needless to say the results were EXACTLY the same as the other balun.

The only other thing I can think of is the velocity factor must be near or better than perfect, but I find that impossible to believe. The VF would need to be near 1 or even better and like that’s going to happen. However, the VF must be really good like .98, but something else must also be in play. Does anyone have any ideas?

I’m curious about this because it might possibly explain some of the other recent discussions on issues relating to antenna matching via feedline, etc. An example of this would be for the feedline below using a G5RV antenna.

L= (492 x VF)/f
f = 14.286
VF = .99 = 34.1’
VF = .90 = 31.0’
VF = .81 = 27.0’
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Ian VK3KRI
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 07:47:33 AM »

130'  is a half wave at around 3.6 Mhz allowing for end effect so its resonant already.  (136' being closer to real half wave in free space)
 
Adding 50' to 90' of feedline makes it 140' long near enough to a half wavelength if the velocity factor is close to 1 which it should be for any decent open wire line.    Terminating impedance is reflected on the end of a 1/2 wave transmission line regardless of it characteristic impedance.   Thus you now see the impedance of the antenna at the feedpoint.

So here's a general question? Is a half wave antenna feed with open wire line really a Zepp?

Original Zeppelin antennas were a half wave length , end fed by a quarter wavelength stub - pretty close to a horizontal J-pole. In the '27 and '41 ARRL Handbooks this is how it is described, except the radiator is horizontal, and the feeder vertical(ish).

I would have thought a centre fed zepp should have a full wavelength radiator with a voltage node where the feed line meets the antenna .

                                                                                             Ian VK3KRI
 
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KM1H
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 11:47:29 AM »

The only way that MFJ POS will give you an accurate reading is at the feedpoint or at the end of a 1/4 wave or odd multiple feedline that is trimmed to the exact frequency with a noise bridge or other instrument. Measured any other way will give you a reading that will require a Smith Chart to decipher.

Way too many people take the MFJ as the last word and wind up repeating that as gospel everywhere.

Carl
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KX5JT
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John-O-Phonic


« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 05:31:48 PM »

I'm by no means an expert but....

I've always been told you shouldn't run ladderline/windowline/tuned open feeders near metal.  They should be at least two feet away.  So wouldn't the fact that your window line is right up against your homebrew transmitter and no telling what in the attic.... wouldn't that throw off all your tests?

Just a thought.
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AMI#1684
ke7trp
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 05:36:28 PM »

My readings are close to yours.. 

Please perform this test.

Hook one side of the ladder line to the Ground lug on the MFJ. Then hook the other to the center of the Coax SO239.. Find low band dip. Record readings.. Then try the other leg.

Let me know what you find.

Clark
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ke7trp
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 10:09:13 PM »

I have real close to the same readings.  I did not realise you had a 1 to 1 balun. Sorry. 

My 130 something foot Zep is reading resonant at 3.9MHZ on the MFJ. 

C
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