wire trays, panduit, and how to do it right?

[Opcom]

Has anyone experience with cable tray and what cables to put in together, which to separate, etc?

I have about 200FT of 7" wide aluminum cable tray coming for the winter project-o-rama.

Bottom line is I want to do up the lab/shack and fix some interference problems.

This should help an issue where all the cables in the lab are laid helter skelter across the tops of the florescent light fixtures and when I try and test the KW size radios, the data network stops and so does most other things. I hate it. I guess I was too lazy and just threw the wire up there to get it off the floor. I want to redo it, and do it right once and for all.

I would buy even more of this cable tray material at these costs, but I can only afford so much. I need to do it now because I am in good cahoots with the company for buying their scrap items that others did not want (magnehelics) and I didn't pitch a fit because the RF generators were spoken for already.

I hope that if I run the RF cables in one track and the power and data and everything else in another track this interference issue will go away. It will also look cool.

how about this?
One track hung above the racks for the RF, and another behind them at the same level for the sorely neglected power and whatever else, which is a bunch of extension cords. How sick is that.. These would be right at 8FT above the floor, as close to the ceiling as possible.

I also glommed onto some panduit which is vertical mounting and mounts to the backs of the racks so the cables can go down into them nicely..
I hope I can make all the wires neat and orderly. On the right - -power/data/video/audio On the left - -RF only.

The building is all metal. Am I right to use a/c vent hanging strap to support (and ground?) the cable tray? Is it right to put all the RF cables in one tray, and everything else in the other, considering I plan/afford only two runs of tray above the racks where the operating area is?

What do you pros do for segregating the kinds of signals when you run this tray?

What happens when the RF transmitting coaxial cables are in one tray and the power. data, etc are in the other, and the trays are side by side, maybe 2FT apart?

Can they be closer together considering they have solid sides (see pic. for the tray construction type, except the sides are about 6" tall and the inside is a good 6-7" wide)

So anyway, one has to run to the mains power breaker rack, then do a 90 deg. and run to the DSL modem and telephone and video/audio stuff for my security system. The other has to run beside it, make a 90, and run about 10FT to a place where the antenna matching rack will be.

I have the opportunity to run one along the wall of one side of the building, up high. Should that be the power&data or the RF one?

I put a drawing of the shack to show how I think I want to run the cable tray. The building scale there is 30FT (right to left) by 40FT.

[N2DTS]

Every instalation is different, due to power levels, grounding, shielding, frequency in use, swr, antenna proximity, etc.

Its best to seperate coax form each other, and from everything else.

My station is in the basement, close to the entry point, its 6 feet from entry to the cabinet that holds the station control device.

I installed three quad 117vac outlets each with its own 20 amp breaker next to the transmitters, so power runs are short.

Brett

[W3SLK]

Patrick,
Where I work, we use panduit pretty often. I would run the RF in a separate tray. The data/signal and any DC power runs in another, (using shielded wire naturally), and the AC would be run in its own. Any crossing of lines should be done at right angles to minimize induced currents.

[n2bc]

We made our own cable trays some years back, just simple spacers and long lag screws holding a 1x4 thru the spacer to the wall.  Ran around the outside walls of our club shack.  Each of the 3 rooms had 4 coax runs and 4 rotor runs all going to a central patch panel.  Also had large a ground buss and a 12VDC accy run.  Never had RF issues (*) but also only used resonant antennas.  In fact I used the many coax runs, cable tied to the spacers, to form the bottom of the tray.

* Did have overload problems with multi stations due to ops tuning for max smoke (and max IMD) and because the towers were all within appx 200' of each other and ops trying to use two antennas on the same tower at once - duh....

The tray certainly cleaned up a cable mess.  One slick thing we did was to route each rotor to each op position.  The 4 rotors each had a pigtail with a unique plug. To use a particular antenna rotor you just grapped the appropriate controller, labelled for its antenna, and plug it in the mating socket.

* Oh, I did get 'juiced' good once when the op requested a new antenna then heard a needed station and started calling as I was unscrewing coax on the patch panel.  Still have the burn mark 10 years later...

[KB2WIG]

Corrugated drain pipe??   ~$50 fer 100'

pvc if u need rigid pipe

circular saw in half to save bread

klc

[Opcom]

I appreciate all this info. The corrugated drain pipe, and the lag bolts, spacers, and 1x4 are good ideas. In fact, this reminds me there is a 8" wide "shelf" that is actually the top of a beam that runs all the way around the perimiter on the inside. I could run the AC power along that and clamp the cables to it. I will have to remove some nick-nacks like dud display tubes but that's a minor sacrifice. Most of the AC power to the existing wall-mounted outlets and the lights is run with some 3-conductor 12-ga. wire that is ready-made inside this sort of spiral flexible conduit and that was used to wire the whole place.

side notes on the power:
The "big" power for the racks is not of this shielded kind as above, it being 8 GA. plastic covered type like romex. I should go to 6 GA. I need to connect the G.E. Inductrol regulators in the circuit that serves all the outlets as well as the radio racks, because the voltage in the shack goes from 127VAC to 112VAC when the HVAC unit kicks on. I purposely left some 10FT loops of the incoming power cable there in that one "regulator" cabinet just for that. Each Inductrol device is rated 200A, and the circuit to the lab has a 100A breaker, so that will be fine, they can't be overloaded. I can set them to 120VAC +/-2VAC. The reason I have not yet connected them is because until recently I did not understand how the voltage sensing circuits worked and there are many wires between the two. These are separate industrial-type panels with a bunch of delicate electromechanical relays on them. G.E. could not supply the info, but wanted to sell me new solid state controllers for $1200 each, which I cannot afford. Once the juice is in the racks there are three 6KVA Superior Electric "Stabiline" regulators. I want to set these to 117VAC for the old equipment like the R-390A's, R-220's, and test gear that would benefit from a lower voltage.

The AC power could then run at a 90 degree angle from one position on the wall to the racks. Maybe I could run only one 50 amp circuit from the wall to the racks for the big radios and could distribute the present 8 GA circuit among the 100 watt radios and other stuff in the racks with a panel already in my posession. The 8 GA has been fine for now, but I lose maybe 3VAC in it from the panel to the leenyar which is a 1600W load. So it is too small for the couple of big radios. That is another issue anyway.

side notes on the RF cabling vs the number of radios:
I only plan to have one "strapping" operator position engaged at a time.. just me.. so I think I am OK on the crosstalk between RF cables because they are on very different bands. After talking to one of the guys at the Irving ham club who does some iRF nstallations for contract, The only RF cables I am going to run are one for a HF vertical, one for a HF dipole, and two for VHF and UHF.
This is much better than running one cable from each of umpteen radios, and cheaper too. I had to think alot about this, if I want to do like y'all and have everything working but not take a 2nd mortgage to pay for the cable. So there are two transmitters, 6 receivers, and 7 tranceivers that could be used, not including a whole passle of radio sets I do not intend to use, but just keep as collectors items. I will try and save the $$ for LMR-400. Maybe I should sell some of the radios I do not intend to use. It's been eatin' on me.

So the guy suggested I should put the radio selection switch there at the operating position's racks and run as few RF cables as possible to the tuner cabinet and to the thru-wall panel.
To that end I picked up a couple of MFJ 1704 4-way switches rated at "2.5KW PEP" to start with. I hope they do not burn like the low pass filter. My only gripe with them is they surface-mount and I do not wish to put the ugly things in sight on the front of a rack panel with cables screwed in all over like a hammy hambone job. I think I can mount them back on another panel behind the visible rack panel and extend the shaft through with a coupler, and only the knob will show on the panel. There should be room then on that front panel for the forward and reverse meters. But that is another story there.

Back to this cable tray thing:
I have enough tray coming to do 3 runs but I did not want to use all of it up right away as it is not very cheap. I thought to save some for running from the shack to the tower for the VHF and UHF cables to lie in a-la-cell-tower style. The guy said the paperwork is submitted for processing so I am sort of biting my fingernains hoping this goes through. But it should since he is in accounting and approved it. he thought my offer was very fair. I went and looked at it. There is some 1200FT of the stuff and it is almost clean as new since it is from the wafer fab. The cable tray is costing quite a bit at $1.50 per foot, three times as much as corrugated drain pipe there and probably many times more that the bolts and spacers might be, but I can't use the bolts and spacers idea for all of this and there will be times when the antenna is not quite resonant, but this should be helped by the tuner at least showing the transmitters 50 ohms. I realize this is an expensive extravagance, but it should help alot to reduce the RF mess and make things look right.

So, based on yall's advice, the AC runs along the wall, the DC and test signals and audio and stuff runs in one tray, and the radios' RF cables will have to run in the other tray. I changed the drawing to show where I think the AC power will go. I can use a short piece of the cable tray to get it ftom the 8 FT wall shelf overhead to the racks and drop it in from there.

I think code is going to require this to be in conduit or encased somehow, not just a fat cable lying in an open tray.

If nothing else, this will also give me a good excuse to mount an emergency power disconnect switch. What do youse guys use for that? Some kind of big red button? a 100A breaker? I would prefer something that does not require a big ugly box and does not rely on dropping out a remote contactor. Basically a "large" switch that can be put in a conspicuously colored rack panel

[N2DTS]

A station control is very handy.
Mine is a small rack mounted box mounted in a rack next to the operating position, so its close to everything.
Its painted to match all the homebrew stuff, and the controls are labled.
I have:
Mod monitor takeoff level knob.
AC input knob (selects what trans keys the TR relay and mute relays)
Antenna selector (4 antenna positions plus dummy load),
Receiver selector (7 receiver positions),
Transmitter (4 transmitters).

It has a big contactor TR relay mounted on rubber isolators, and a bunch of relays that do muting and keying.
It also has a TX only in/out for the antenna tuner and watt meter.

All the ins and outs come out of the box and go to connectors in the base of the cabinet.

It makes it very easy to select whatever equipment I want to use, or add some new piece of gear.
The control box, antenna tuner (when used), watt meter, 32V3 and dummy load are all in the same rack with lots of extra room.

Since I have (somewhat) resonant antenna's, and park rigs on bands, I can switch between 80 and 40 meters in seconds using different rigs, or select the 32V3, any receiver, in seconds, and its all tuned up and ready to go, or pick the flex as a standalone rig, or exciter for the homebrew rigs, into an amp, etc....

This is a very worthwhile project....
It paid off in the past when I used to have a lot of vintage gear, lots of old receivers and transmitters plus the homebrew stuff.

Brett

[KI4YAN]

Basically, keep data segregated from RF and AC Power, and keep RF segregated from EVERYTHING. Coax should not be run near anything else. In a cable tray, the shield capacitively couples to the metal tray, and can spew interference all over if you have any RF on the shield.

[n2bc]

Some words on the patch panel I mentioned in my post, may be helpful to others.

At its peak our club shack had 10 nice antennas.  We wanted to be able to patch any of them - up to 4 - to any of 3 operating positions.

At first I looked into buying a bunch of barrel connectors, expensive.  We ended up making the patch panel connectors...  We took standard 1/2" sweat copper 45 degree elbows.  Cut them lengthwise with a vy fine blade on a band saw.  They fit perfectly around the backside of a standard chassis mount SO-239.  We soldered a length of 14GA solid copper wire between a pair of SO-239s, formed that to 45 degrees and 'wrapped' the split elbow around it. Some quick solder work with a small butane torch fused the elbow back together and to the SO-239s.

Inexpensive solution with the added benefit of placing the backside coax at a gentle 45 degrees. 

One of our members used an NC machine to cut perfect holes in some 2" wide heavy aluminum strips which we mounted to the wall using the same 'standoff' and lag bolt scheme we used on the cable trays.

Add careful labelling of the 'ports' on the patch panel and matching labels on the cable ends at the op positions, a couple fistfulls of coax jumpers, and we had a pretty nice solution to cleanly route any antenna to any position. 

Certainly not as fast as switching the antennas, but I think I hurt myself just thinking about switching any 4 of 10 antennas to any of 3 rooms...

[Opcom]

That's a great idea on how to make the panels. Very ingenious!

I'd dismissed antenna patch panels due to the length and sloppyness of coax'es making the "u-turns" behind them. Your copper elbow is a perfect idea to solve the issue. Bet it would work nicely to UHF as well, Z of the little section notwithstanding, simply because of the good shielding.