Flood!

[N0WEK]

So there we were a couple of hours ago, watching TV, when what sounds like running water starts from the kitchen. I ran into the kitchen where the sound was coming from under the kitchen sink and saw water running out and I noticed that it was hot, so I immediately ran down and shut off the feed valve to the water heater which stopped the immediate problem.

What is directly under the kitchen sink is a room that was framed up as a sauna, with a bathroom next to it, which I haven't got around to finishing. I stacked that under the kitchen for just this event, it's supposed to be a wet room and won't be hurt much by water pouring out of the ceiling. The bad news was that it's the very room that the bulk of my radio gear and parts stock is stored while I'm finishing the shack!

So there I am, mopping up water and unpacking boxes of BC-610 tuning units and coils to make sure they didn't get wet and drying them off if they were. Luckily, there wasn't too much damage and I have fans running down there to dry things off but it's going to take me half of tomorrow to make sure everything is dry and repack.

What caused the problem was a PLASTIC 3/8" supply tube that pushed out of it's compression ring. I installed that faucet about 11 years ago and it's been trouble free all that time. I've installed quite a few of those plastic lines over the years in my houses and in friends houses too, without a single problem. I'm going to change out both lines with metal ones tomorrow; they're too stiff to push out and I can tighten them a bit more as well.

The good news is that we were home when it happened and I had it shut off in well under two minutes. Normally I'm out of town almost half the time and even when I'm home, we could have been out for hours at a time or I could have been out of town and my wife could have been at work.

Check your supply tubes and don't forget the washing machine hoses either!

We were VERY lucky!

[K3ZS]

I had to use a couple of those compression fittings.    The plastic pipe that runs
from my well head's pitless adapter is not made anymore.   When I had to make some changes, the only fittings available were the compression type.    It did come off once but the pump underpressure switch cut the water off after a while.   I always shut off the pump switch and the main valve and hot water heater when leaving the house for more than a day.

[W1ATR]

When you replace those faucet risers, you would be better off using the chrome plated copper ones so the ferrels get a better bite. If the nuts on the other end that attach the lines to the bottom of the faucet are plastic, toss them and use the brass one's.

As far as washer hoses go, they make these nice stainless braided hoses that have an excess flow check built in on the end that connects to the duplex valve at the wall. If they blow out, the checks slam closed.

Cheap insurance.

73 

[WQ9E]

Jared,

I used those safety shutoff hoses on my washer and dish washer and they were only marginally more expensive than the standard braided hose; definitely cheap insurance!

I am a bit paranoid about this situation after the experience one of my colleagues suffered.  Several years ago he had a new toilet installed in an upstairs bathroom a few days before his family left on an extended vacation to Florida.  Either the top tank was defective or the installer made a mistake but in any case the top tank cracked sometime during his absence and when he returned he had extensive water damage and a water and sewer bill for several thousand gallons of water.  Whenever I leave for a few days I always kill the power to the well pump but of course even during a normal workday a lot of damage could occur.

It is lucky the original poster was home when this happened.

Rodger WQ9E

[N0WEK]

When you replace those faucet risers, you would be better off using the chrome plated copper ones so the ferrels get a better bite. If the nuts on the other end that attach the lines to the bottom of the faucet are plastic, toss them and use the brass one's.

As far as washer hoses go, they make these nice stainless braided hoses that have an excess flow check built in on the end that connects to the duplex valve at the wall. If they blow out, the checks slam closed.

Cheap insurance.

73 

All true!

I'm on my way to get the metal ones now for both the failed kitchen ones and (ounce of prevention) for the ground floor bathroom too.

Not only do the metal ones get a better bite but they're stiff enough that water pressure can't push them out. This one could have failed any time in the last 11 years.

The idiots that used to own the house plumbed it up with 3/4 plastic and compression fittings. I knew I was going to have to replumb soon. The day we closed on the place I was checking on things and had the 3/4" line out of the water heater pull out of the fitting (it was only half way through the ferrule and could have gone at any time). Lucky I knew where the main shut-off was since the water heater shut-off was seized up. I just went down to the store and bought a pile of pipe and some more fittings and replumbed in sweat soldered copper the day of closing.

Everything is dried out, no real damage other than a set of car speakers that I poured water out of and threw away. Time consuming though and could have been a real disaster!

VERY lucky we were home!

[W1ATR]

Jared,

I used those safety shutoff hoses on my washer and dish washer and they were only marginally more expensive than the standard braided hose; definitely cheap insurance!

I am a bit paranoid about this situation after the experience one of my colleagues suffered.  Several years ago he had a new toilet installed in an upstairs bathroom a few days before his family left on an extended vacation to Florida.  Either the top tank was defective or the installer made a mistake but in any case the top tank cracked sometime during his absence and when he returned he had extensive water damage and a water and sewer bill for several thousand gallons of water.  Whenever I leave for a few days I always kill the power to the well pump but of course even during a normal workday a lot of damage could occur.

It is lucky the original poster was home when this happened.

Rodger WQ9E

Yeah, I've seen that before. It happens when the toilet is installed by tightening the tank screws to the point where the tank is pulled down too tight to the pedestal. It won't always happen right away, but eventually the ceramic will pop right around the screw heads and split the whole tank right in half. General rule of thumb is hand tight with a 7/16th's nutdriver and add another 2 turns with a wrench. When in doubt, I use an in/lb torque wrench and hit it with 20-25in/lb's.

Cheap toilets will do this before good one's will, but even a good one will split a tank if it's not put on right.

73

[W1ATR]

 

When you replace those faucet risers, you would be better off using the chrome plated copper ones so the ferrels get a better bite. If the nuts on the other end that attach the lines to the bottom of the faucet are plastic, toss them and use the brass one's.

As far as washer hoses go, they make these nice stainless braided hoses that have an excess flow check built in on the end that connects to the duplex valve at the wall. If they blow out, the checks slam closed.

Cheap insurance.

73 

All true!

I'm on my way to get the metal ones now for both the failed kitchen ones and (ounce of prevention) for the ground floor bathroom too.

Not only do the metal ones get a better bite but they're stiff enough that water pressure can't push them out. This one could have failed any time in the last 11 years.

The idiots that used to own the house plumbed it up with 3/4 plastic and compression fittings. I knew I was going to have to replumb soon. The day we closed on the place I was checking on things and had the 3/4" line out of the water heater pull out of the fitting (it was only half way through the ferrule and could have gone at any time). Lucky I knew where the main shut-off was since the water heater shut-off was seized up. I just went down to the store and bought a pile of pipe and some more fittings and replumbed in sweat soldered copper the day of closing.

Everything is dried out, no real damage other than a set of car speakers that I poured water out of and threw away. Time consuming though and could have been a real disaster!

VERY lucky we were home!

I hear ya on the hacks. We spend our lives in my biz following these guys around and cleaning up the aftermath. I just laugh at it when I see it now, but once and a while, I'll come across something truly dangerous. It's that kind of thing that really pisses me off.

[k4kyv]

Either the top tank was defective or the installer made a mistake but in any case the top tank cracked sometime during his absence and when he returned he had extensive water damage and a water and sewer bill for several thousand gallons of water. 

You have a meter on your sewer line as well?  I can see  how they would calculate your water bill, but how do they calculate your sewer bill?

Here, if you have a broken line, you can sometime negotiate with the water company for a reduction if you can get a licensed plumber to certify that the excessive usage was due to a plumbing failure, and that the plumbing installation originally met code.  It doesn't really cost them anything because they lose a lot of water from mains leaks all the time.

[N0WEK]

Either the top tank was defective or the installer made a mistake but in any case the top tank cracked sometime during his absence and when he returned he had extensive water damage and a water and sewer bill for several thousand gallons of water. 

You have a meter on your sewer line as well?  I can see  how they would calculate your water bill, but how do they calculate your sewer bill?

Here, if you have a broken line, you can sometime negotiate with the water company for a reduction if you can get a licensed plumber to certify that the excessive usage was due to a plumbing failure, and that the plumbing installation originally met code.  It doesn't really cost them anything because they lose a lot of water from mains leaks all the time.

At least in Minneapolis, the city figures the sewer bill based on water usage during the winter months. That way the extra $70-80 per month we spend on lawn and garden watering (my wife's a hardcore gardener) doesn't affect the sewage portion on the bill. Last month we spent $18 (out winter average water bill) on sewer and $102 on water, it's been DRY!

[W1RKW]

Rodger,
My Aunt and Uncle had this same thing happen to them.  A toilet tank on the 2nd floor cracked some time during a 2 week vacation. My Uncle didn't turn off the main water supply.  When they returned from vacation they came through the front door to a nice waterfall coming down the steps to the 2nd floor.  My Uncle trudged through over 2 feet of water in the basement to turn off the water supply. Approximately $50K worth of damage was done to the house and belongings.

Even if I go away for an overnight I simply flip the valve over on the pressure tank.

As far as replacing hoses on the washing machine, one time I wanted to replace the hoses but could not until the valves to the washer were fixed. When I went to disconnect the hoses I thought I turned off the valves. Thinking I turned them the wrong way to shut them off I still had water pressure on the hoses.  Turned out the valves were so crapped up with mineral deposits that the valves wouldn't close.  Glad I caught that.  After replacing the valves I was able to replace the hoses too.

Jared,

I used those safety shutoff hoses on my washer and dish washer and they were only marginally more expensive than the standard braided hose; definitely cheap insurance!

I am a bit paranoid about this situation after the experience one of my colleagues suffered.  Several years ago he had a new toilet installed in an upstairs bathroom a few days before his family left on an extended vacation to Florida.  Either the top tank was defective or the installer made a mistake but in any case the top tank cracked sometime during his absence and when he returned he had extensive water damage and a water and sewer bill for several thousand gallons of water.  Whenever I leave for a few days I always kill the power to the well pump but of course even during a normal workday a lot of damage could occur.

It is lucky the original poster was home when this happened.

Rodger WQ9E

[N0WEK]

When you replace those faucet risers, you would be better off using the chrome plated copper ones so the ferrels get a better bite. If the nuts on the other end that attach the lines to the bottom of the faucet are plastic, toss them and use the brass one's.

As far as washer hoses go, they make these nice stainless braided hoses that have an excess flow check built in on the end that connects to the duplex valve at the wall. If they blow out, the checks slam closed.

Cheap insurance.

73 

All true!

I'm on my way to get the metal ones now for both the failed kitchen ones and (ounce of prevention) for the ground floor bathroom too.

Not only do the metal ones get a better bite but they're stiff enough that water pressure can't push them out. This one could have failed any time in the last 11 years.

The idiots that used to own the house plumbed it up with 3/4 plastic and compression fittings. I knew I was going to have to replumb soon. The day we closed on the place I was checking on things and had the 3/4" line out of the water heater pull out of the fitting (it was only half way through the ferrule and could have gone at any time). Lucky I knew where the main shut-off was since the water heater shut-off was seized up. I just went down to the store and bought a pile of pipe and some more fittings and replumbed in sweat soldered copper the day of closing.

Everything is dried out, no real damage other than a set of car speakers that I poured water out of and threw away. Time consuming though and could have been a real disaster!

VERY lucky we were home!

I hear ya on the hacks. We spend our lives in my biz following these guys around and cleaning up the aftermath. I just laugh at it when I see it now, but once and a while, I'll come across something truly dangerous. It's that kind of thing that really pisses me off.

I've owned several homes and, when flying was slow, did quite a bit of remodeling work on friends houses. Every one of those had some really bad hacks in the plumbing and wiring.

I think the worst one was the 18 gauge lamp cord twisted (not soldered or even taped) on to the knob and tube in the attic and run down into the wall to the added outlet. The knob and tube was covered in added cellulose insulation in the attic. I have no idea why that didn't burn down the house.

[k4kyv]

I think the worst one was the 18 gauge lamp cord twisted (not soldered or even taped) on to the knob and tube in the attic and run down into the wall to the added outlet. The knob and tube was covered in added cellulose insulation in the attic. I have no idea why that didn't burn down the house.

Probably because no-one had ever tried tried to pull 15-20 amps through it.  If the lamp cord was twisted tightly, the connection was probably better and safer than many wire-nut connections I have seen.  Sometimes they are just barely twisted on, so that with a little wiggling on the wire, the connection falls apart - and this was supposedly the work of a licensed electrician.

For whatever reason that I can't figure out, in some localities soldering splices and connections is against the  electrical code; wire nuts are required.  If these connections work loose, they can develop high resistance or even arc, which may cause them to heat up dangerously.  A loose, high resistance connection or arc is much more likely to cause a house fire than a dead short, assuming the circuit is properly fused.  Flaky connections can very easily happen with wire nuts if they are not carefully and properly used.

A dangerous thing about insulation is that sometimes it covers surface mounted ceiling light fixtures, and causes the fixture to get excessively hot from the heat from the bulb.  Modern  day cellulose insulation is supposed to be treated with some kind of fire retardant chemical, but I wouldn't trust it, especially if it is decades old and possibly manufactured before the fire-retardant was required.

[WQ9E]

You have a meter on your sewer line as well?  I can see  how they would calculate your water bill, but how do they calculate your sewer bill?

Don,

I live out in the farm country so I have well water and a septic tank/drainage field so my costs are in terms of system maintenance.  But my colleague lives in town where they base the sewer charge on the amount of water consumed and I think this is pretty common.  When I lived on the MS gulf coast the billing was similar but there were exceptions; for example you could get an exemption while filling a pool.  But as I recall in my colleague's case the town water department (AKA money grubbing b**rds) refused to give in on the charge. 

Rodger WQ9E

[K3ZS]

When my mother was alive, she lived in Ocean City NJ.   They based the sewage bill on water usage during the 3 month Summer season.    That way they got all the summer rentals to pay all year even though many of the homes were vacant most of the year.