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Author Topic: Alexanderson Alternator  (Read 8864 times)
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k4kyv
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Don
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« on: March 16, 2009, 03:24:34 PM »

See the Swedish CW (as opposed to spark) transmitter, built in 1925, fired up.  It doesn't use vacuum tubes, but a high frequency alternator that generates the RF directly by electromechanical means.

It would have taken one hell of a carbonium microphonium to amplitude modulate this signal using loop modulation.  Grin

This station is still operational and fired up periodically, the last remaining workable Alexanderson alternator, at the VLF transmitter site at Grimeton in Sweden.

Watch the video
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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Ed/KB1HYS
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 05:43:12 PM »

impressive... talk about turn on procedure...
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73 de Ed/KB1HYS
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 "I've spent three quarters of my life trying to figure out how to do a $50 job for $.50, the rest I spent trying to come up with the $0.50" - D. Gingery
W2DU
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Walt, at 90, Now 92 and licensed 78 years


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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 09:58:58 PM »

Speaking of Alexanderson's alternator, here's a pic of the one that was at New Brunswick, NJ, pre-ww1, which was used by President Woodrow Wilson in transmitting the end-of-war ultimatum to the Germans. Call sign WII, operating around 20 KHz.

There's a little irony concerning it's 'Alexanderson's' alternator. Actually, Reginald Fessenden was the true inventor. When it came time to actually construct the beast a group of electrical and mechanical engineers was formed at GE, with Fessenden involved as the idea man, but Alexanderson was at a higher level at GE than Fessenden, so Alexanderson was appointed leader of the group--hence his name was given to the alternator, and Fessenden was hardly given any credit at all. Jack Belrose, VE2CV, has written a paper on Fessenden, which provides some of the details. I'll try to find my copy of Jack's paper and obtain the reference for it.

Walt, W2DU


* WII Alternator.jpg (154.36 KB, 952x761 - viewed 455 times.)
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W2DU, ex W8KHK, W4GWZ, W8VJR, W2FCY, PJ7DU. Son Rick now W8KHK.
W1UJR
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 12:38:23 PM »

Hi Walt, would love to see the paper you referenced.

Yes, these beasts are very cool, and I recall that the one in Europe, SAQ?, gets fired up each year.
Freq is so low, its hard to copy here. http://www.vlf.it/parmigiani/saq_eng.htm

Interesting AWA paper on topic -->> http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/blw535202.htm

73 Bruce W1UJR

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K6JEK
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 04:29:35 PM »

Kanna du tala Svensk? EN översättning skulle vara nyttig.
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 10:04:44 PM »

I heard you can receive it with a sound card.
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Patrick J. / KD5OEI
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 11:07:21 PM »

...  Alexanderson was at a higher level at GE than Fessenden, so Alexanderson was appointed leader of the group--hence his name was given to the alternator, and Fessenden was hardly given any credit at all. ...

Very common today as well for bosses to take credit for others work. At T.I., if an engineer files for a patent, the good ol boy network of managers won't approve it unless their names go on as co-inventors even though they have done none of the work. An old game.. I'm glad my current boss does not do that but instead brags up the command structure on "his people's accomplishments".

I heard you can receive it with a sound card.

I did not know that. Not sure if 100FT of wire would do, but it's worth a try. Maybe a bandpass filter would help as well to reduce other audio noises and 60Hz-induced power line harmonics and crap.
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Fred k2dx
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 11:37:02 PM »

I wish the narrative was in English. Looks interesting anyway.

The SAQ website says the next scheduled transmission will be June 28, 2009.    http://www.alexander.n.se/
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W1VD
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2009, 06:46:17 PM »

Received SAQ on a number of occasions in CT. Recording below from 7/1/07. This level of signal and static is fairly typical during reception on 17 kHz...winter or summer reception periods don't make a big difference in either. 

* saq070107efiltshort.wav (205.67 KB - downloaded 205 times.)
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Fred k2dx
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2009, 07:40:53 PM »

What was the rx, converter, and antenna? Was that with the Octomom er... I mean Octoloop antenna?
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W1VD
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2009, 08:34:25 PM »

Octoloop (tuned) > low noise preamplifier > Harris RF-590 > Delta 44 sound card > computer software filters. Also have used the HP 3586C selective level voltmeter in place of the RF-590 with good success. Looking forward to trying the Perseus SDR next time around...   
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2009, 09:09:26 PM »

Jay,
Does Perseus go that low I think the input transformer in Mercury craps out that low. Not sure if it goes below 100 KHz. I'd like to hear it on my R3090.
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W1VD
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2009, 09:53:23 PM »

Flat down to 10 kHz and - 3dB @ 7 kHz (measured). The receiver is noticeably quieter and there's less 'crud' down there than the RF-590 or the HP SLM...may be the lack of synthesizer noise/products. Cutler ME on 24 kHz using the e probe antenna rocks of course, but it'll take a listening session with a weak SAQ to prove it for sure.     
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2009, 11:21:27 PM »

I have a couple of RYCOM R-1307 VLF receivers. Maybe one of those would do OK if used with a preamp (the most sensitive range/scale is 100uV). Has anyone use one for this purpose?
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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 03:27:38 AM »

Looking at the frequencies used by these alternators, I'm curious what possibilities there are for hams on VLF. I know that the Navy uses VLF to communicate with submarines, but the general propagation of bands below MW is a mystery to me.

Is it a place you have to have a million watts (or dollars?) to play in? Does low power have a chance when there's no skip involved?

73,

Bill W1AC
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 10:28:08 AM »

On the subject of VLF propagation here's some anecdotal experience I had back in 1948 that should shed some light on the tremendous ground wave propagation that exists at frequencies around 20 KHz. Below is a section from one of the new chapters in Reflections 3, which will probably be released in time for Dayton:

       A Messy Ground Radial System Can Cause Radiation of Spurious Signals
                               By Walter Maxwell, W2DU
 
      In 1948  I was the consulting engineer for the proposed first AM broadcast station in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan, that resulted in a construction permit and license for WCEN, 500 watts on 1150 KHz. Using a National HRO receiver, I was performing a hands-on search for an available frequency for the new station, when I encountered an interesting and unusual signal that was entirely out of place in the AM broadcast band—a CW Morse-code station illegally transmitting five-letter-word code groups at 30 words per minute. The illegal signal was S9 +40 dB on 1297.8 KHz, producing a 2200 Hz beat-note with the 1300 KHz frequency of WOOD, Grand Rapids, thus producing a an audible CW signal with the receiver BFO disabled.
     The format of the coded messages appeared to be military, IDing as NSS. We know that NSS is the flagship station of the U.S. Navy in Annapolis, MD, but in the AM broadcast band? It appeared that either an NSS transmitter was producing a spurious emission, or a station using NSS as a fraudulent call sign was operating clandestinely in the AM broadcast band. I deemed it important to find out which.
     As a former FCC monitoring officer at the Allegan, Michigan monitoring station, the next step was to report the situation to the Allegan station. Although Allegan was 90 airline miles away, the monitoring personnel there could not hear the spurious signal, even though it was S9 +40 dB at Mt. Pleasant. I let the FCC monitors hear the signal through the telephone, but they still heard nothing on their receivers tuned to 1297.8 KHz. Thus the signal must be of local origin near Mt. Pleasant, and not from NSS. However, to be on the safe side, FCC notified the Navy of the spurious signals, and the NSS operators began combing all their transmitters for spurious signals, and found none. The situation is now becoming even more strange.
     I then copied five minutes of the coded text and sent a copy to the FCC, who relayed it to NSS for comparison to their transmissions. The situation is now both perplexing and frustrating, because the text I copied on 1297.8 KHz agreed exactly with a transmission that had been made by NSS. How could that signal have been transmitted on 1298.7 KHz if no spurious signals were emanating from NSS? But it’s obviously not a fraudulent station. What then?
     A partial answer came shortly thereafter. As I resumed the search for a useable frequency for the new station, I proceeded downward from 1298.7 KHz, going through 1280 KHz and hearing WFYC, Alma, 1000 watts, 15 miles away, also S9 +40 dB. But on continuing further downward I immediately came across another S9 +40 dB thumping CW signal. I switched on the BFO and discovered the CW was also a five-letter-word coded transmission at about 30 wpm, the same as NSS. I retuned to 1298.7 KHz and the NSS signal was also there, as before. So I cranked up a second receiver to monitor both frequencies simultaneously. Surprise! Both frequencies were showing identical simultaneous transmissions. I then measured the frequency of the lower-frequency signal—1262.2 KHz. Voila! The higher CW frequency was 17.8 KHz above WFYC’s 1280 frequency and the lower CW frequency was 17.8 KHz below WFYC’s frequency. A quick reference to the Berne frequency listing showed NSS assigned to 17.8 KHz. This situation now appeared to indicate something very wrong going on at WFYC. The low-frequency world-wide ground-wave signal from NSS was apparently somehow mixing with the signal from WFYC, and producing the 1297.8 and 1262.2 KHz sum and difference frequencies. But what non-linear device in WFYC’s system could perform that mixing? Don’t know, but I reported this new information to the FCC and that was the last I heard of the situation…until…
     Fast forward now to 1955. I was now employed as an electrical engineer at the RCA Laboratories, the David Sarnoff Research Center in Princeton, NJ. An assignment took me to Washington, D.C. to attend the annual conference of the NAB, the National Association of Broadcasters. President Dwight D. Eisenhower gave the keynote address. However, one of the technical forums was presented by Jack Young, Chief Engineer of the RCA Broadcast Division. His topic was on the solution of mutual interference between two broadcast stations in Los Angeles, KFI and KNX.
      It seems that in a section of the Los Angeles area it was impossible to hear one of these stations without hearing both simultaneously—when tuned to 640 KHz for KFI, both KFI and KNX were heard, and when tuned to 1070 KHz for KNX, both KNX and KFI were heard. Young was assigned the task of determining the cause of the interference and eliminating it. To make a long story short, he discovered that there were ancient and rusty oil well derricks in the affected area. Currents from both KFI and KNX transmissions were being induced in the oil well towers, and the rusty joints were acting as mixers for the two frequencies, producing both the sum and difference frequencies, as well as re-radiating both signals on their original frequencies. When the derricks were removed the interference stopped.
     So how is this incident relevant to the NSS problem? Well, at the conclusion of Young’s presentation I had the opportunity to talk with him, and because of the similarity of the problems, I told him of my discovery of the NSS signals appearing in the AM broadcast band. Talk about coincidences! He was surprised and excited to learn that I had discovered the NSS problem at WFYC, because he was the one assigned to determine the cause of the problem. He had never been told how that problem originated, or how the problem had been discovered.
     He then explained that he had found the ground radial system under the WFYC antenna a horrible mess. Cold solder joints throughout, and far ends of the radials hanging loose in the water of the nearby Pine River, establishing the non-linear mixer condition that resulted in the sum and difference frequencies being generated between the NSS and WFYC signals. Cleaning up the radial mess ended the appearance of the NSS signals in the AM broadcast band, thus concluding an interesting journey.

Walt, W2DU
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k4kyv
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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 07:17:11 PM »

I recall reading that somewhere once before.  Where did you have it previously published?

About a year ago, I had a similar problem with my beverage receiving antenna.  Broadcast birdies suddenly erupted throughout the 160m band.  After a lot of frustration and searching, I found some foliage that had grown into the antenna.  I trimmed away the branches that were touching the wire, and the problem went away.  Apparently, when it rained, the wet wire touching the foliage was enough to cause rectification.  I was amazed that a few leaves could have caused that much of a problem.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2009, 07:57:46 PM »

Don, I don't remember having published the NSS story anywhere, except I might have posted it here quite some time ago. At 90 my short- and mid-term memory have gone way farther down than the deep South, so I just don't remember.

I'll have to remember your comment concerning foliage grown onto your antenna, because there's a vine climbing up the halyard of my 80-m dipole--I must hack the vine away before it reaches the wire. Thanks, Don,

Walt, W2DU
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