One more (final?) nail in the coffin?

[k4kyv]

Goodbye, broadband over power lines. We hardly knew you.

Once touted as a possible third option for home broadband that could compete with phone and cable companies, the idea of providing Internet service over power lines now looks like it has died in infancy.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S437084.shtml

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

All right!

And we can all thank the ARRL for this. They fought hard to kill it. Long Live the ARRL!

[Jim, W5JO]

And a poor idea and design.  Through Jim Hayne, the ARRL did mount a substantial opposition for which I am grateful.  They did find the fault and press the issue.

[Carl WA1KPD]

"Compared to coaxial cables and copper phone lines, power lines are poor conduits for data. Some deployments also met fierce legal resistance from ham radio operators, who found that BPL created radio interference."

Technically it may have been a bust and the ARRL should get credit for adding to the awareness of these issues and thus increasing the threshold for compliance and costs related to same.

Thanks ARRL!

Carl /KPD

[W1AEX]

Sweet news indeed. What a pile of politics, crap and lies surrounding that whole affair. The League did a great job of grabbing onto it and not letting go.

Hey Carl, I love your avatar. Reminds me of a picture from an old Sears catalog!

Rob W1AEX

[W2XR]

Sweet news indeed. What a pile of politics, crap and lies surrounding that whole affair. The League did a great job of grabbing onto it and not letting go.

Hey Carl, I love your avatar. Reminds me of a picture from an old Sears catalog!

Rob W1AEX

Rob,

If I'm not mistaken, that avatar of Carl's is from an RCA Broadcast catalog of around 1950. It represents a  hand-held microphone/transmitter combination, all-tube and battery powered, that operated around 27 Mhz.

That was the state-of-the-art in Electronic News Gathering (ENG) equipment in 1950 for radio broadcast.

73,

Bruce

[Carl WA1KPD]

If I'm not mistaken, that avatar of Carl's is from an RCA Broadcast catalog of around 1950.

RCA

No way!

That's me on my HB 4-1000 HT calling Frank (GFZ) on 3885 at Deerfield last spring to tell him that the hot sausage vendor was open.

[ka3zlr]

Well, I reckon...But From the onset the Technology was a bust, But I will at this Time give Kuddo's to the league Job Well Done OM's....This Time....

[Pete, WA2CWA]

While "broadband over power lines" may never catch on, the implementation of Smart Grid systems will most likely continue since the new federal Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 calls for the modernization of the electric grid through the implementation of Smart Grid systems. So, although the passing of typical internet traffic may flounder and maybe cease to exist through the electric grid, the passing of data by the many electrical utilities through the electric grid will continue and probably escalate over the next several years. Even the article that Don pointed too states: "Oncor will use the data capabilities of the network to monitor the electric grid". So maybe, in time, the BPL acronym will be replaced by an even more menacing acronym, SGPL. I wouldn't kiss hustling data over power lines good-by anytime soon.

[k4kyv]

The power company here installed an "electronic" meter about a year ago.  It sends data back over the power lines and the meter reader no longer comes by the house once a month.  At first I was afraid of radio interference, but so far haven't noticed any increase in the beeps and buzzies I had already been hearing on hf for the past several years.

Hopefully, the remote meter reading system will cause no harmful radio interference. The sending unit in the meter periodically transmits a short packet burst back to the monitoring facility. Because of the short duration and infrequent transmission of the digital messages, they would unlikely be the cause of significant interference.

Shortly after the new system was installed I took my portable radio and held it up next to the meter.  I could hear what sounded like about a 1000 Hz tone across the entire AM broadcast band, but nothing on any of the ham bands.  When I moved the radio more than a few feet away from the meter the noise disappeared. There is no interference on my AM radio to the one AM  station I sometimes listen to during the daylight hours, which runs 10 kw daytime on 1430 kHz, and is located in Nashville, about 50 miles away.  I can pick up the station clearly on any radio at the house, but ordinary power line noise and vehicle ignition noise often make it inaudible in the car unless I happen to be driving closer to the Nashville area.

Naturally, we should keep a close eye and ear for interference as more and more of these systems are installed.  It is not inconceivable that improperly installed, or with a different type of system that might be poorly designed, there could be problems.  But interference is usually symmetrical, affecting both transmission and reception, so I suspect the power company would be quick to fix the problem if they thought it might affect their revenue.

One thing I am wondering is how well the electronic meters are going to hold up under the high amplitude power surges that result from lightning.  This usually wipes out my answering machine and cordless landline phone about once every year or so, and I have made it a habit to turn off my computer, disconnect the cable connection and unplug the a.c if I think there is even a remote possibility of a t-storm.

I haven't noticed any JS attachments on the power pole to direct the digital data signal around the pole pig.  I'm not sure how they accomplish that.

[Carl WA1KPD]

the implementation of Smart Grid systems will most likely continue since the new federal Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 calls for the modernization of the electric grid through the implementation of Smart Grid systems. So, although the passing of typical internet traffic may flounder and maybe cease to exist through the electric grid, the passing of data by the many electrical utilities through the electric grid will continue and probably escalate over the next several years.

Pete,

Smart Grid is a "grid" that uses robust two-way communications, advanced sensors, and distributed computers to improve the efficiency, reliability and safety of power delivery and use. It is an integration of information and reaction to the usage by customers. It feeds inteligence both ways to allow better and more efficient use of the infrastructure

From Xcels site "The next-generation electricity grid will allow our company to better meet growing demands, address environmental challenges, maximize available resources and optimize the entire energy system. Ultimately, a “smarter” grid helps us serve our customers by creating more options for managing personal energy use, habits and costs."

Although the lines are under consideration as the communications medium remember that the very developments SG would help (downed lines, blown power stations, overloads etc would also impact the communications. The preferred favorites at this point is a satellite and or WIFI. To make the lines work the same issues that hurt BPL still exist. RFI aside, how can the "system" tell user X to shed load  because there are delivery problems if the problem impacts the line that delivers both the energy and information is the issues.

From the Smart Grid Website
 Choosing between BPL and WiFi for the Smart Grid. Communications technologies are required to make a grid smart by providing two-way communications and remote access. Two Booz-Hamilton consultants recently published a thorough analysis of communications issues in Utility Products titled Touch, Reach, Digitize: Are utilities looking hard enough at Smart Grid’s communications backbone? The article points out advanced metering and communications are the two largest investment costs utilities must recover to start the Smart Grid build-out. It asserts that utilities will plug into commercially available fiber communications to close the “fiber gap.” It concludes that either a BPL or an integrated Wireless system (combining two or more discrete wireless platforms) can deliver the functionality to enable the potential of Smart Grid. Although agreeing that wireless is easier and cheaper to install, the report says that BPL is the preferred solution as it operates “through the wire.”

   QuickTake: We disagree with this conclusion. BPL has a multitude of issues, including its unavailability during blackouts and disasters when needed most. R .

[Jim, W5JO]

The power company here installed an "electronic" meter about a year ago.  It sends data back over the power lines and the meter reader no longer comes by the house once a month.  At first I was afraid of radio interference, but so far haven't noticed any increase in the beeps and buzzies I had already been hearing on hf for the past several years.

The REC here installed that type of meter when we built the house 4 years back and I don't hear anything at all.  They tell me that it can be used to pinpoint noise on the system with some accuracy.  However it is one thing to know about noise sources and another to get someone out to fix the problem.

[KC4KFC]

Don and all,

The power lines on the west and south of Nashville (out Highway 100) or horrible! They are so noisy they will blank out WSM 650 driving down the road. AM is practically useless here on the highway. I have a HV transformer on the property that had bad noise but Williamson county Electric fixed it a little.

What I don't get, is that the interference is already there. I have no idea what noise BPL would add, but the point is, its already horrible!

I thought power line noise was indicative of trouble and they would find and fix it but it has been here for years.

73
Mark

[N3DRB The Derb]

notice today that only systems, networks, etc. are described as 'smart' and are almost universally thought up by dumb people?

We need more smart people and less dumb networks.

[WB2EMS]

Interesting. I just heard on the local AM station that there will be what sounds like a BPL system being built in Cortland NY, only about 25 miles from here, this fall. There is some sort of NYS rural internet initiative, and I'm afraid that's 'code' for BPL.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Interesting. I just heard on the local AM station that there will be what sounds like a BPL system being built in Cortland NY, only about 25 miles from here, this fall. There is some sort of NYS rural internet initiative, and I'm afraid that's 'code' for BPL.

See Local BPL News, about 3/4 down the page:
http://www.arrl.org/sections/?sect=WNY

And
BPL: Is It Worth It? Cortland NY
http://articles.directorym.com/BPL_Is_It_Worth_It_Cortland_NY-r903085-Cortland_NY.html


Bottom Line - BPL is far from dead
The nails Don mentions are probably made of plastic.

[k4kyv]

The power company in the nearby town is planning to soon offer high speed internet and TV service, in direct competition with the cable company.  They are installing fibre optic cable throughout the system, with the goal of reaching every customer within the next 2-3 years.  They say the primary goal is for remote meter reading and monitoring the power delivery system, but with the FO cable in place, they are offering video and internet collaterally as a public service, and to recoup some of the cost of laying the cable.

But IMO they just shot themselves in the foot by announcing that they will not offer "adult" material on pay-per-view, which is offered by the cable TV company.

When queried by some local hams, they responded that BPL had never even been considered.

[W3RSW]

Yes, if you are in the business that's obtained rights-of-way for any reason over the years, the
"second coming" business is utilizing such R/W's for secondary purposes. 

Railroads and natural gas transmission companies routinely used telegraph lines on their R/w's almost since inception for work related purposes such as dispatching and gate operations.  These morphed into direct tone control of equipment and nowdays digital control.

Since the original purpose of secondary usage was for control of the service or product there's been no legal issue, but now with secondary usages being way out of the primary service pervue, the lawyers, land owners, et. al., are having a field day.

In long-line natural gas transmission we opened our extensive microwave networks up for common usage, rented out to telcos, etc.  Got into legal issues almost immediately, without installing any additional hard network other than links at the terminals. 

It will be interesting to see how eminent domain applies to secondary R/W usage from the regulatory and legal standpoint as the courts work this out.  My choice is the more venues the merrier from a competitive standpoint.  The market if left alone will eventually work out two or so viable networks.  I see the baby Bell's are re-merging here and there.  Trust busting sometimes works.. sometimes doesn't. - well I digressed somewhat.

[ab3al]

there are alternatives to bpl that have been in place for 0ver 28 years and are now on par with the price of cable modems.  If you cant get service from the telcos or cable where you are look into satellite.  (stay away from Wild blue) pm me for the reason  I sell and install about 2 broadband satellite systems a day.  and though the latency is just high enough that you cant really use voip or online gaming.. everything else works about the same as dsl.  in many areas of the country there are wifi systems that work excellent.  In my region alone there are about 6 service companies.. all mom and pop that provide excellent service.  one of them even lit up the entire Chesapeake bay.  a national company with the backing of sprint is called clearwire.  watch this one as they are launching a national build with sprint and us cellular to cover the entire us.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

There's always Winlink.