Major Internet Service Providers Drop, Downgrade Usenet

[W1RC]

This is of interest to those of you who use Usenet (also known as newsgroups).  I am kinda curious to know how many of you are Usenet users.

From news.cnet.com

N.Y. attorney general forces ISPs to curb Usenet access

New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo announced on Tuesday that Verizon
Communications, Time Warner Cable, and Sprint would "shut down major sources
of online child pornography."

What Cuomo didn't say is that his agreement with broadband providers means
that they will broadly curb customers' access to Usenet--the venerable
pre-Web home of some 100,000 discussion groups, only a handful of which
contain illegal material.

Time Warner Cable said it will cease to offer customers access to any Usenet
newsgroups, a decision that will affect customers nationwide. Sprint said it
would no longer offer any of the tens of thousands of alt.* Usenet
newsgroups. Verizon's plan is to eliminate some "fairly broad newsgroup
areas."

Full article: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9964895-38.html

There are many radio-related newsgroups in the alt.* hierarchy that will no longer be accessible through these major ISPs.  There are also newsgroups in the alt.* hierrchy that offer support for cancer and diabetes sufferers and even corporate entities like Mucrosoft and Symantec maintain several newsgroups for their customers to offer each other peer-to-peer support. 

There were also a kind of usenet posting known as "binaries" in which you can download music, videos, movies, images (including porn) and even software. 

Will it stop the spread of kiddie porn?  Not really.  There are a number of Internet news service providers who offer access to Usenet for a fee which is very reasonable.   Most have monthly fees based on the amount of material downloaded.  However I found one that sells blocks of 110 Gigabytes of downloads for $25.00 with no time limit on when they must be used.  That's a whole lot of stuff.

I have been using this resource for about three years for fills and to subscribe to newsgroups that Verizon doesn't carry.   I still have about 60 GB left in my account so it's really only pennies a week.

So without appearing to be promoting anything here I will reveal the name of this enterprise to those who request it.

Usenet is not dead; it's just been moved.

73,

MisterMike, W1RC

[N1ESE]

I still use it frequently, couple times a week, but not as much as I used to.  I got started on the Internet when that was all that was really available; Usenet Gopher, and ftp.  This was a couple years before the web and we didn't even have PPP back then, dialed into the University system using SLIP. 

[Bill, KD0HG]

This is silly.

One could always sign up with a web-based usenet provider for a modest monthly fee, if that floats your boat.

Got Bandwidth? Heck, set up your own Linux usenet server...

[W1AEX]

Newsgroups have been sliding along under the radar for many years. It was only a matter of time before some politician heard about usenet and decided to make it an issue they could put their name next to. Unfortunately, it's simply another case of a "feel good" directive that can be circumvented by anyone who signs up for an account with one of the many usenet providers. So Cuomo gets a headline and nothing is really accomplished... It's a shame that access to ISP provided non-binary groups are affected as well since they offer a ton of information related to just about any interest, hobby, or craft you could think of.

Rob W1AEX

[Opcom]

silly politicians.. internet filtering is for lids !

[WBear2GCR]

USENET was a great thing at one time.

Since I was lucky enough to be on the internet from almost the very start, I got to spend a whole lot of time on USENET once it came into being.

Over time the internet became less exclusive, less expensive to participate in, and the LCD (least common denominator) went down. Spam, trolls and other nefarious types proliferated. Many then migrated to web based, moderated forums. Less open, less free, less wide ranging, but free of spam, trolls and other nefarious types. Most of my web time is spent on forums (like this one) today.

There are still some dynamic and interesting USENET groups, but the S/N has degraded due to spam, trolls and other nefarious types.

Shame it is.
An object lesson as to why people in general need police and governments.

What is most interesting is that early on there were rather few of these sorts of problems on USENET, although some topics did have to go moderated.

If you were on early, or you know the history, then you know what the differences were between those people and the present population.

Or, another way to consider it is an example of why the "Founding Fathers" wanted a Republic form of government, and not a "Democracy"? Why the Electoral College is a good thing?

                     _-_-bear

[kb3nqd]

It's unbelievable that they think this is how we will fix the problem with lewd pictures and movies on the net.  I guess they have never heard of this little thing called bittorrent, or other p2p networks.  Political solutions to technical problems are a complete and utter waste of time.  Politicians and the law will never be able to keep up with technology imho.

[W4RON]

I got home today and all my newsgroups had 99 messages posted to them.
All saying that Time Warner no longer supported news groups...
I guess they sent the same message 99 times just to make sure
understood.
I got setup on Google Groups late last week and so far it looks like
it'll be OK.

Hang on tight for the next change coming around the bend...

73, Ron W4RON

[W1AEX]

Mmmm... yes. Time Warner is on a fast track to a format called "metered internet". That whole concept makes many users shudder. If that becomes common practice, the internet in the U.S. will be quite different from what it is now. Hope their little beta test falls on its face.

[W3RSW]

All my kids use usenet via various colleges and academic institutions.
About all I've seen them use is text though. I wasn't aware it was a little more sophisticated.
Sorry to see it go as it was a great courtesey to be able to access it through major providers.

[k4kyv]

Mmmm... yes. Time Warner is on a fast track to a format called "metered internet". That whole concept makes many users shudder. If that becomes common practice, the internet in the U.S. will be quite different from what it is now. Hope their little beta test falls on its face.

The Internet is the last true unregulated outpost of freedom of speech but moves are afoot to stifle, suffocate, control and eventually pull the plug on the world wide web as we know it.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/061208_pull_plug.htm

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Wow. Those guys are waaaay out there. And they don't understand even the basics of the technology.

As Beckerman points out, the entire Internet is nothing more than a giant network of hyperlinks making files 'available' to other people.

Uh, no. The Web is where hyperlinks exist. And it's quite a bit more than just that. Such simplistic thinking is found throughout the article.

[W3RSW]

Stevie,
Man, I love your signature.

It's active.
  It's cool.
It's alive.
  I'm a fool.

If I belive in annonymity (sp?).
 

[KA1HNH]

One could always sign up with a web-based usenet provider for a modest monthly fee, if that floats your boat.

Time Warner or Brighthouse as they are known here in central Fl, sucks. Unfortunately the only game in town. Their newsgroups suck even more. Many incompletes. I went with a paid service. found the best deal for, and I emphasize me, was http://www.forteinc.com/apn/index.php I opted for the full service and haven't been disappointed in 3 years.

Hope TW goes out of business soon anyway. I had a guy  (in the early days when I actually paid for cable TV) I think he called himself a technician,,, anyway I had herringbone on my TV signal. He insisted that it was my TV. Told him to hook it up at the demarc point and look at it himself. "whats wrong with it" as I watched him looking at the same interference. There you go...Let me put some cones up around him marked Genius at work........Operating any RF TX in the neighborhood was definitely out of the question with leakage like that.

[W1AEX]

Several years ago Cox provided its subscribers with an outstanding usenet service that rivaled some secondary providers in every area but retention. After the suits in the front office found that more than half their bandwidth was being used by less than 5% of their subscribers they downgraded it to the point where it was useless. I ended up grabbing an account from Newshosting (15 bucks a month, 8 server connections allowed, fills my 20 Mbps download pipe, unlimited downloads) and have never looked back.

[Bacon, WA3WDR]

Cuomo is playing the ever-popular Child Porn card, but it's probably all about copyright protection. Actually copyright protection is a valid concern, but it wouldn't get traction, hence the card game.

The problem is that the brush is way, way too broad; all of the alt groups are gone from Verizon, etc.  That wasn't necessary.  The ISPs are (1) running scared because now they will be held responsible for bad postings that they carry, and (2) taking advantage of an excuse to drop something that didn't make them much moo-lah anyway.

#1 above is like the broadcasters who are getting whacked with FCC fines for real or perceived obscenity.  Big Brother is carrying a big stick these days, and using it.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

That may be  true, but I can't think of an ISP getting  sued or fined by the FCC. Maybe I missed it/them. The capacity issue seems more likely. Why not just charge those who use more? After all, where is it written that you should pay a flat rate, no matter how much capacity you use (whether it's for porn or anything else)?  Free internet is a myth.

[K5MO]

Leave it to a Dum-O-Crat to legislate us from cradle to grave.

This action is somewhat akin to banning bookstores, to prevent sale of pornography

[Opcom]

Max works for AT$T.
It was evidently Max's job to help me by not answering my questions nor to explain how I will have free access to usenet binaries, nor how my bill will be reduced in accordance with the reduced service provided. fascist bastages.

[][][][][][][][]

Dear Mr. #########,

Thank you for contacting AT&T Internet Services E-mail Support.

I understand that you can no longer access your [alt.binaries.pictures.radio] and
[alt.binaries.pictures.radio-scanner] newsgroups.  I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused you.  I know it is important for you to access this group.  I will be more than happy to assist you with this concern.

Mr. #########, unfortunately, I regret to inform you that while we will continue to provide access to newsgroups as part of our Internet offering, we will no longer include Alt.binary newsgroups because of the possibility of child pornography in those particular groups and the difficulty in ensuring that no child porn reappears in them.  You can still access newsgroups content through unaffiliated third party providers.  You can go to the search engine of your choice and search for UseNet.Newsgroups so that you can setup and access your alt.binaries.pictures.radio and alt.binaries.pictures.radio-scanner newsgroups.

As our valued customer, your feedback on this issue is very important to us.  We are continuously trying to improve our products and services to make you a more satisfied member.  We would like to hear from you and would gladly consider your comments and suggestions to make sure that your needs are being met.

Please click on the link below to let us know if there is anything that we need to carry out to improve our service.

http://helpme.att.net/productfeedback.php

This should take care of your issue.  If you have any follow-up questions or concerns, please feel free to reply to this e-mail or call us anytime at 1-800-288-2020 and refer to Case ID 169878891.  We are always ready to assist you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Please remember to visit our help-site at http://help.sbcglobal.net/ for resolutions to the most common problems.

I would like to inform you that you may receive a survey in your e-mail, requesting that you rate the service you received from me.  Please take a few minutes to fill this out and let my manager know how I am doing and how satisfied you are with the support you received from AT&T Internet Services.

It has been my pleasure helping you today, Mr. Jankowiak.  Thank you for choosing AT&T Internet Services. 

Have a great day!

Sincerely,

Max
AT&T Internet Services E-mail Support - Tech Support Specialist

You Wrote:
==============================
Member ID: ##########; Domain: swbell.net
Connection Type: DSL
Description: Dear AT&T,

At first I thought this was a malfunction on your newsgroups server, but now I am told that you have removed binaries newsgroups.
e.g.
alt.binaries.pictures.radio
alt.binaries.pictures.radio-scanner

I am paying >$80 per month for the conection. This includes full access to usenet.

I have not ammended the terms of your agreement. I have not subscribed to any filters nor am I paying for restrictions.

I assume you have made an error in removing binaries newsgroups. Please advise me when the binaries groups will be back online, or, when my billing will be reduced substantially to compensate for the reduced service and missing connectivity, and by what amount.

If this is instead merely a technical problem on your end, please advise when it will be corrected.

I kindly await your thoughtful reply in this matter.

Sincerely,
Patrick #########::BRAND_OF_MODEM::westell::MODEM_SPEED::800/8000::ALT_EMAIL::########@swbell.net::TELEPHONE_EXT::
E-mail Client: Other
Web Browser: Netscape 7.x
Brand of Computer: HP Integrity Superdome/Itanium 64CPUs/2TB RAM
Operating System: HP OpenVMS
Processor Speed: Greater than 1Ghz
RAM: Greater than 512MB
==============================
When responding to this email, please perform a reply with history so that the following conversational identifier "[THREAD_ID:267481503]" is included in your response.

[AB9IL]

The ISPs just don't understand reality. 

It is ultimately lawyer-driven action that accomplishes nothing when all is said and done.  Someday one of  At&T's customers will get busted with a terrabyte of repugnant multimedia - then what?  If they grant access to the net, there's no real limit to what users can find.

Some governments filter their citizen's access, and the citizens bypass the filters via proxy servers and packages like the "onion router."  I worry a lot more about bandwidth throttling and unequal access to bandwidth.  ISPs want to monetize bandwidth, and create a situation where only the elite have true broadband access, and the common man has crap like DSL. Or BPL....protein pills instead of beef.

[KB2WIG]

Philip... you should have more faith in corporate Amerika.


protein pills instead of beef is very eckofriendly

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

ISPs want to monetize bandwidth

Good for them. Please explain why ISPs cannot meter their service just as the water, electric, phone, cable and every other industry.

[Opcom]

"""The appetite for bandwidth shows no sign of slowing down," Strigl (verizon) said in a statement. "Neither will we. We've already had successful trials of the 100-megabit home, which will be a reality faster than anybody thinks."

As part of the upgrade, all Fios customers will now have access to download speeds of 50 megabits per second and uploads of 20 Mbps for about $140 a month. The company is also offering its symmetrical 20 Mbps download and 20 Mbps upload service to all Fios customers for $65 a month.""

How much do you want? There's no fiber in my area so I have DSL at 6/0.6. If there was fiber, I'd go for the 20/20 plan. I don't see any elitism. it's a matter of paying for what is available. Much over 20 megabits and the latency issues inherent in TCP/IP routing (QOS/quality of service) will be the biggest thing you notice. I notice them already with 6 megabits. I can see them charging alot more for a guaranteed quality of service because that is the requirement for realtime straming of video and audio such as for VoIP and videophones.

As for metering, the 0.6/6 plan entitles me to continuous use of 600Kbits up, and 6Mbits down. If I use less, because I am not continually at the computer transferring data, I am still being charged for the full rate. There is no incentive for them to charge me by the byte, it would reduce their income.

[k4kyv]

The following announcement just appeared on the web page of my old dial-up ISP

Current Announcements:

    * 07/07 - Newsgroup service ending July 31


Newsgroup service ending July 31
As of July 31, 2008, we will discontinue our Newsgroup (Usenet) service due to its diminishing use.

For those of you who use this service, we recommend getting free newsgroup access through Google Newsgroups.

Heavy users may wish to consider a subscription-based service, such as that from Giganews if Google's free service is not sufficient.

One thing that might be moving ISP's towards metered service is the proliferation of feature-length videos streaming in real time over the net.