The latest high-tech Ham Radio - over $20K - German Engineering

[K1JJ]

Here's the latest talk of the town amongst the DXers and gotta haves.  This new rig is due out soon - after a year's delay... and priced at about 15,000 Euros...  well over $20K.

Notice the 1.3 shape factor on the 16 pole filter using crystals.  Also the -45db 3rd IMD 100W amp and the -35 3rd 600W amp.

I find it interesting that most American-made or Euro-made ham rigs have a somewhat homebrew cosmetic look to them, while the Japanese plastic rigs have always looked more commercial since the early 80's.

http://hilberling.com/produkte/produkte_pt8_t9.htm

(I'm still sticking with my paid-in-full 22 year old FT-1000D for now... )

T

[k4kyv]

I see it has a 6 kHz bandwidth filter and includes AM mode.

I understand that AM is now illegal in Germany.  They have gone to regulation-by-bandwidth, similar to what was proposed in the US over 30 years ago under Docket 20777, with a maximum of 3.0 kHz on the HF bands.

I'd be curious what the AM audio quality is like.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I guess it depends upon the "town". They actually showcased this rig last year at Dayton. While attending some of the DX and Contester party rooms at the hotel where I stayed last year, I didn't get an enthusiastic "warm and fuzzy" from some of the participants I spoke with. Most, still had their eyes set on the new Icom IC-7700 and/or IC-7800 and the top of the line Yaesu FTDX9000 series. But, time will tell.

Icom IC-7700:


Yaesu FTDX9000:


Yaesu FT-1000D:

[K1JJ]

Interesting on last year's introduction.

Yep, the  Japanese rigs will always outsell any other, at least for the last few decades. 

Last night, I heard some DXer friends discussing actually buying one of these German rigs - the group sounded like it was the "next coming." I understand that Jay at Array Solutions will be the exclusive US distributor.

It's also interesting that the American Electrocraft kit, K3, has gotten very popular with VHF and HF DXers. Also the American  TenTec Orion is considered amongst the top of the heap.  Maybe we are seeing a comeback.

I consider myself lucky -  unlike an obsolete computer, my 22 year old FT-1000D is just as competitive as the newest stuff out there. At least when it comes to receiving I see no advantage to guys running the latest DSP, roofing filters, etc.  Then again, I use mine for DXing weak signals, not corntesting which demands different flexibility and bells and whistles.

I think RF technology has reached a slow rising curve, whereas digital is still steep and has a long way to go yet. Thus, we are basically using the same receivers and transmitters but with new, slick ways to control them -  via digital.

T

[Pete, WA2CWA]

K3 is very popular and has a great following in many arenas. The Orion I and II has never really perked my interest. I was tempted at Dayton by the IC-7700 but decided the 756 PRO II was fine for a knob radio for my interests at this time. However, I did order the second receiver package for the Flex 5000 and their 2M/70 cm transverter will be ready sometime later this summer. The Flex is a great contesting rig and holds up well in the DX pileups and sounds great on AM too.

[K1JJ]

A "knob radio"....   that's a good way to put it these days....

OK on the Flex and upgrade. I'm starting with a simple Softrock card -  now that I have a laptop coming.

For any radio I buy, I wait a few years and buy used after the dust settles and watch the demand.

In fact, I have been using an interesting way to filter and buy on eBay. The other day I wanted a used laptop for < $350, but had no idea what brand or features to get.  I simply scanned the eBay listings looking for the ones with the most bids. In no time I settled on one brand and model that everyone seemed to want. Some had 40-50 bids, while other laptops had none. Picked one up the same day.

That works for most any "generic" product when you have little knowledge of it - at least it cuts right to the chase when filtering out the good or poor demand in the marketplace.

T

[Pete, WA2CWA]

A "knob radio"....   that's a good way to put it these days....

OK on the Flex and upgrade. I'm starting with a simple Softrock card -  now that I have a laptop coming.

For any radio I buy, I wait a few years and buy used after the dust settles and watch the demand.

In fact, I have been using an interesting way to filter and buy on eBay. The other day I wanted a used laptop for < $350, but had no idea what brand or features to get.  I simply scanned the eBay listings looking for the ones with the most bids. In no time I settled on one brand and model that everyone seemed to want. Some had 40-50 bids, while other laptops had none. Picked one up the same day.

That works for most any "generic" product when you have little knowledge of it - at least it cuts right to the chase when filtering out the good or poor demand in the marketplace.

T

Yep, not a bad way to shop for things that you're not really familiar with as far as price and demand. But, with PC stuff so price competitive in the marketplace, I've never found a good PC bargain that takes away the stigma of buying a "used" box from some unknown source. Several weeks ago, picked up a new HP dual-core tower with 3 or 4 Megs of memory, 19 in high-rez monitor, big hard drive, DVD/CD drive, running Vista, lots of bells and whistles, and a year warranty for $700 after rebate. If something breaks or screws up, I got someplace to call. Personally, it was worth the piece of mind.

You aware that there's a new web site for DX Summit 
New one is http://www.dxsummit.fi/Default.aspx

[k4kyv]

I think RF technology has reached a slow rising curve, whereas digital is still steep and has a long way to go yet. Thus, we are basically using the same receivers and transmitters but with new, slick ways to control them -  via digital.

That's nothing new.

Up through the early 60's, receiver technology was basically the same as what existed after the superhet replaced the TRF and regenerative detector in the 1930's, with the exception of the post-WW2 Collins receiver design with tuned i.f. ,and the Collins copycats.  If you include that technology, repackaged "old" technology extended through until the late 70's with solid state and the early 80's, when digital displays and control, PLL's and DSP began to take hold.

I recall in the late 70's and early 80's, the trade-off for solid state receiver technology was to accept a degradation in performance.  The original Yaesu FT-101 series is a classic example.

I am not so sure that even to-day solid state receivers have substantially surpassed the performance of the best of the tube designs. I am not talking about bells and whistles, size & weight, power consumption, DSP, etc, but fundamental ability to actually pull signals out of the noise and interference.

The latest fundamental advance in technology is software defined radio, and from what I have seen so far, we are once again in a period of accepting a degradation in performance as a compromise for the flexibility and other advantages of SDR.  Those shortcomings will eventually be overcome, but in the meantime one must make a choice of priorities.

[K1JJ]

I am not so sure that even to-day solid state receivers have substantially surpassed the performance of the best of the tube designs. I am not talking about bells and whistles, size & weight, power consumption, DSP, etc, but fundamental ability to actually pull signals out of the noise and interference.

There are more than a few DXers using the Drake R4B/C with the Sherwood mods for weak signal 160M DXing. I know Tom, W8JI was or still is using it. One of the major reasons was phase noise of the SS synthesizers.

I had a Drake R4C myself and did the Sherwood mods. I couldn't see any difference between it and my FT-1000D, so I sold it.

Yes, those first transistor rigs were rough. But I think SS rigs are pretty much up to par with the tube rigs these days...  and probably because tube technology stopped and SS marched on, maybe even better.   It would be pretty hard to match a typical SS VFO LSI circuit with tubes. It's probably more a matter of being able to build very complex circuits in a small box with SS vs: taking up a whole room with tubes.

 I suppose the Collins S line was the ham tube peak. One must wonder where we'd be now if SS technology did not exist and we kept going with tubes.

T

[ka3zlr]

Wondering how to start into this..so here goes, First for the Latest I'm all for the K-3, now on the 20 grand scale all i need is 38 thou and the farm is paid off, so I'm sticken with the more important deal... creature comfort..

As far as receiving now, I still use My Drake 2A the Ten-Tec RX-340 and last my version of a 390...depending on needs and battle condition requirements...

Ya know if ya have the funds hey by all means Rock On, but I don't and these Master Builds are Manufactured in numbers.. so each in my opinion would have it's own flavor and the specs are specs to keep each one in scale requires alot of werk...i guess that justifies the Price...

73..

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

The radio in use may make a difference in 1% of the QSO/contact/pile-up situations. The other 99% is the operator and the antenna. Save your money and spend it on a few books and better antennas.

[K1JJ]

The radio in use may make a difference in 1% of the QSO/contact/pile-up situations. The other 99% is the operator and the antenna. Save your money and spend it on a few books and better antennas.

Amen Bro!

Many newbies find out real quickly after dropping $10K+ on a new transceiver.

Much like golfing, fishing, skiing, basketball, football and almost any other competitive human activity - the equipment used is often of less importance...  but knowing where to apply the focus is the key.  (focus -  like an efficient antenna, caw mawn)

But then, there's hams who have done all they can with antennas and skills... these are the ones who can actually benefit from the newest high tech gear, but it's a diminishing return, just like going from 1400 to 1500 watts. 

Then there's the group where raw performance means little. They buy the  rig to have the latest toy or enjoy the latest bells and whistles.  Just like buying a new Massarotti when a '68 Ferrai will do the job...

T   

[Rob K2CU]

I read through the limited specs available for the Hiberling transceiver and looked to verify the meaning of AM/AME modes.  I submit for discussion the following:

AM:  conventional A3E double sideband full amplitude carrier. (probably 6 KHz)
AME: means AM Equivalent as in SSB generation with carrier reinserted. this is H3E (probably 3 KHz)

From Uncle Charlie, new designations:


                                      OLD                 NEW
AM voice                           A3                  A3E
SSB, suppressed carrier       A3J                 J3E
SSB, reduced carrier           A3R                 R3E
SSB, full carrier                  A3H                 H3E

Theoretically, an H3E signal tuned in on a vintage receiver with a diode detector and with the carrier just inside the filter edge, would "sound" better
that conventional AM. This is because the detection process would not produce the second harmonic distortion that comes from the mixing of the two sidebands of conventional AM in the diode (square law) detector.

You can try this out if you have a receiver where you can set bandwidth independent of mode. Set the radio to 2.4 to 3 KHz bandwidth and AM mode. Then tune in someone on 3885 but slide radio so that carrier is on either edge of the filter. In other words, set it to either 3886.5 or 3883.5. You will be detecting just one sideband with the carrier.

[Opcom]

The bandwidth can also be specified if you wish according to:

8K00A3E 8KHZ AM
6K00B3E 6KHZ ISB
2K40J3E 2.4KHZ SSB

Bandwidth is expressed  by  three numerals  and  one  letter.  The  letter  occupies  the position  of the decimal point and represents the  unit           of  bandwidth.   The first character shall  be  neither zero nor K, M or G.

This info may be dated from 1997. If anyone has a correction?

[WA1GFZ]

I had a number of emails with Rohde on the cool rig. Sure it is over priced but it is a clean design.
Again last Tuesday my Stock RA6830 heard signals the SDR could not.
Conditiond were poor heavy static.
Can't wait to put Mercury to the test. Flex so yesterday computer toy.

Tom,
Make sure that Laptop has a stereo input. Many do not.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Word on the street is that prices on most of the imported rigs will increase shortly. Not sure by how much. Of course, if you're buying a rig for $6300 and it jumps to $6800, would you still think twice about buying it.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Here's the latest talk of the town amongst the DXers and gotta haves.  This new rig is due out soon - after a year's delay... and priced at about 15,000 Euros...  well over $20K.

Notice the 1.3 shape factor on the 16 pole filter using crystals.  Also the -45db 3rd IMD 100W amp and the -35 3rd 600W amp.

I find it interesting that most American-made or Euro-made ham rigs have a somewhat homebrew cosmetic look to them, while the Japanese plastic rigs have always looked more commercial since the early 80's.

http://hilberling.com/produkte/produkte_pt8_t9.htm

(I'm still sticking with my paid-in-full 22 year old FT-1000D for now... )

T

Looks like the Hilberling has bit the dust (or at least for the time being).
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=170053

If you've been saving up, take what you have and invest it in audio tubes.