N1ESE's Chippewa Thread

[W1IA]

JT did you get my e-mail?


Brent W1IA

[N1ESE]

JT did you get my e-mail?

Just replied, it found it's way into my spam bucket for some reason.  Very weird, sorry.
 
- JT

[WQ9E]

I have an unmodified Chippewa and I will be happy to take some high res photos of the insides as a guide to you also.  Just let me know.

Rodger, I'd greatly appreciate this.  I'd like the raw images straight off your camera as I run pretty high resolution on my screens here.
 
Thanks
 
- JT

Hi JT,

Do you want the actual RAW data files (.CR2)?  They will be from a Canon 1DM2 and roughly 8 to 10 megs per photo.  You would need software that reads the Canon raw data files.  Otherwise I can put it in Jpeg format and using the high res option the files will typically be 5 to 6 megs.

It will be Friday before I have a chance to take the Chippewa out of its cabinet so let me know what format you want and I can email them to you.

My suggestion is consider keeping and restoring the Chippewa since you are not likely to find another.  Although it may seem somewhat overwhelming when looking at everything if you break it down into a series of sub-projects then it should be quite manageable.

Rodger WQ9E

[W1ATR]

lmao, usually the people telling you it sucks and you should sell it, are the same people that want to buy it.

Your experiencing one of the great things about the internet. When you post a question about a piece of tube equipment in a forum that's otherwise inhabited by 'tube equipment junkies', things tend to move fast. The collective knowledge here with this type of gear is unlike anywhere else on the net, and these guys can have the project move from nut's and bolt's to dead key in an hour, then modulate that dead key in an hour and 15 minutes. So the thread moves extremely fast. Usually, a whole helluva lot faster than the project will actually move.

I would guess the project would seem over whelming at lightspeed, but there's no hurry what so ever. Take your time and learn the circuitry at your own pace. I would give it a good cleaning, then study the circuitry. See what was changed, what needs to be put back to normal, and learn the theory of how it works. I wouldn't dump it off just yet without giving it a go. It doesn't have to be this month, or even this year. Unless Bush sells the Aether, then it'll still be there when that Chip is ready.

SK

[WQ9E]

JT,

Another option to consider since it has been modified is you could use the G3SEK "tetrode board" to simplify the process of providing bias and screen voltage along with tube protection and modern transceiver friendly T/R switching; see:  http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/boards/tetrode/tetrode-1.htm

I took the easy way out and used this when I built my homebrew triple 4CX-800 amp and the board worked fine with no problems.  You can download the manual and it will give you the information you need on what it provides and how to select the transformers you need to provide the correct screen and control grid potential for your application.

If you do this, please try to use existing mounting holes in the KL-1 since you (or a future owner) may decide to go completely back to original one day.

Rodger WQ9E

[N1ESE]

The Chippewa has been sold.  My "bitch" is off to be mated with someone who has the matching HV supply but no amplifier so I guess it will be a good fit.

I have a variac on the way to smoke test my barefoot screen modulated rigs and I will use these for now until I build the Class-E station I've always wanted.
 
Thanks to everyone for their guidance and opinions.  Rodger, thanks for offering the hi-res pics.. it naturally won't be necessary now.
 
- JT

[The Slab Bacon]

WIMPY, WIMPY, WIMPY! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 

that amplifier would not have been that hard of a project to resurect, as there are not a lot of small parts or intricate wiring to deal with. And with the rarity of that amp and the collectability of griefkit stuff, a very worthwile project.

I have repaired / resurected many Griefkit, Junkston, and other "kit built" pieces of equipment. Including 1 Apache that was literally a stripped out, empty chassis and a front panel. Most of the kit built stuff that I have redone was so poorly built or butched up that I completely dissasembled it anyway.

From the flavour of this thread, I kinda think you were overwelmed and intimidated by this project. It would have probably been less work to do than scratch building a low power rig as the engineering and layout work is already done for you. A leanyour amplifier is really a rather simple device.

Remember that taking on a tough project and kicking it's butt is what life is all about. Not to mention the bragging rights you EARN for doing it. Rizing to the challenge is truely what life is all about.

And besides "life's too short for QRP"

                                                    The Slab Bacon

[Ed-VA3ES]

Wotta wimp!      I'm in the process of rebuilding a Hammond HL2000 amp.  And it was no kit!  It's a state-of-the-art  3-500 amp, which was the progenitor of the B&W PT-2500A and then the Ameritron AL82.   

I'm rebuilding the time-delay circuitry, and the parasitic chokes.  Have all the parts  but need to fabricate a bracket to mount the time-delay relay.   I'm in no hurry, and expect it to take months, (if not years). I'm also going to upgrade it with  step-start, and  a new bias circuit.

At the same time, I'm rebuilding a Drake L4B.   

Hey, a guy's gotta have sumtin' to do!

[N1ESE]

Not really a matter of wimping out and I don't appreciate the insults.
 
The more I thought about it the more I just really wasn't interested in the project.  I don't really need a 1KW amp and I didn't want to go about re-inventing the wheel.  Someone came along who had the matching power supply but had been looking for a Chippewa for several years so this seemed like a good thing for both of us.
 
Now, I can go back to focusing on my Class-E 350W deck.
 
- JT

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Recognizing the turn before you reach it is always a plus. It can't be easy jumping from new QRP to old QRO technology if you're not comfortable with it. I know the fellow who is purchasing the amp, and he will do a first-rate job of bringing it back to life and will use and enjoy it. He's got a fair amount of work ahead of him.

As far as price, there's always someone out there willing to place a high value on something, just not willing to pay that themselves. Since you're happy with the deal, I suspect you (both) made a good choice.

[Ed-VA3ES]

(Emily Litella voice:)  Never Mind!

[The Slab Bacon]

Not really a matter of wimping out and I don't appreciate the insults.

It was not meant to be a direct insult, more kind of a friendly "poke in the ribs".  If you are that thin skinned, you are not ready for the world of AM. Between the knuckle draggers, tuner uppers, and other arrogant sideband operators that constantly jam and qwerm us, you will definately get a "case of the ass" trying to operate. You have to be thick skinned for AM work. It comes with the territory, or you will be constantly be fighting and bickering on the air.

It was very obvious by your posts that you were quite intimidated by that project. (high voltage does require large amounts of respect as it wont hesitate to kill you). You were scared of stuff that had been sitting dead for a long period of time.

Also you posted this big "here is my next project" then backed out of it after asking everyone for pointers. How does this make you look??
Like I said before I was just having a little fun with you. "If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen."

As far as the class e stuff is concerned, everyone that has built them has had some tribulations with crapouts and popping mosfets. I wonder how you will react to that?

Just remember that rizing to whatever challenge life throws at you is part of the true joy of living.

                                               The Slab Bacon



 

[N1ESE]

You were scared of stuff that had been sitting dead for a long period of time.

I was mainly scared of the HUGE capacitor bank that is still strapped together.  Those suckers can hold a charge, and even rebuild a charge for a long time.  The resistors were cut from the banks several years ago, it isn't SAFE practice to assume they don't still have a HV charge.

Also you posted this big "here is my next project" then backed out of it after asking everyone for pointers. How does this make you look??

And I respectfully thanked those who took the time to help me.  Some of those who helped me, publicly and privately, contributed additional advice to help me wisely decide that this wasn't a project for me at this time.  How does this make me look like a bad person?

As far as the class e stuff is concerned, everyone that has built them has had some tribulations with crapouts and popping mosfets. I wonder how you will react to that?

I have a good local elmer 16 miles away who does a lot of Class-E building and he doesn't see this as a big problem.  I can deal with popping mosfets but multi-thousand volts potentially sitting in a capacitor bank isn't for me.
 
- JT

[WBear2GCR]

JT,

Don't mind that Slab o' guy... he's actually very nice.

As far as the big cap bank - well, it is a good excuse! 
There is/was no requirement that you use that cap bank!! (or the rest of the supply parts...)
Don't know why it should scare you in particular, but perhaps you've read some bad novels late at night about large cap banks?? 

You could have always hung out until a suitable B+ supply arrives, complete, like at the next NEARFeast?? Think I saw a suitable one there in the Fall...

No matter what, you need to work with stuff that is in your comfort zone, so no worries mate! I just sold two BC-610s entirely because I knew that I did not have the time or $$ to make them come back to life in the style that I know I need to have. And, as Slab-o-Ham is currently doing in another thread - raking me over the coals - as I sold a reasonbly nice SX-28 at NearFEAST for the same reason. Now, THAT would have been a really sweet station, the 610 and SX-28!! droool.....

"...man's gotta know his limitations..." C. Eastwood

Would you ask the purchaser to post up here with a thread so that we can know what he finds was up with the Chippewa? I'm sure we're all curious as to what is found on this rare Griefkit piece!! 

         _-_-WBear2GCR



PS. as I said, and you should simply learn for future use, all you have to do to drain that cap bank is to use two clip leads to the existing power resistor(s) and sequentially attach the leads to the caps... after all, you did already touch and move the thing to get it home, right? After that  (a while later) then some wire or solder across the terminals will make sure there is no charge sitting around. Not a big deal at all.

[N3DRB The Derb]

somebody close that ul tag!

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

somebody close that ul tag!

                                          *SMACK*!

There. Got it. 

I think the main thing is JT, you thought you wanted to get into the big iron and discovered otherwise, for whatever reason(s). It's certainly no small step going from lightweight QRP to LARGE QRO, especially old stuff that has been monkeyed with. Slab and Ed's point is, you gotta start somewhere and it doesn't get much easier than the basic amp. Class E might seem easier, and the components sure are smaller, but you'll end up doing a whole lot more before you're done. Not a bad thing, just different.

More importantly - the AM community is a great bunch, but not what'd you'd call a bouquet of quietly-retiring flowers. I've gotten razzed on more than a few occasions myself, but always knew it was for my own good. "Why would you wanna do THAT?" and so on, more of a friendly poke or nudge to move me along in the thought process. One of my long-time friends and elmer KC1BT, former BC engineer and in his early 70s has no compulsion about letting me know when I'm being foolish/stupid/whiny, or anything else. "You could do it that way, but it's the stupid way. This is the smart way..." followed by more great info learned from years of actual applied technique and experience.

That's what you get here, for the most part. And it really is all good. The fact that you're basically a newb to this side of things and treated like one of the group says so.

[The Slab Bacon]

My whole point is that very often things arent realy as difficult as we often make them out to be. especially once we set our minds on doing them. We often take more time talking ourselves out of doing them than it would take to just do it. I.E. my SX-28 post.

that post was really meant to inspire others to try doing it. Many people are scared to death at the thought of recapping a 28. I couldnt resist throwing in a poke at Bear, since he just sold a 28.
(At least he's a good sport about it) As I have said many, many times: If I "put one across your bow" I dont expect you to turn tail and run, I full well expect you to fire one back. I am not thin skinned and dont get offended.

The point is that very often rizing to the challenge is not nearly as hard as running away from it. (or as hard as you thought it would be)

                                            The Slab Bacon

[N1ESE]

I respect what you are saying Slab, I really do.  However, this project really wasn't for me.  The Chippewa was part of a package deal I traded equipment for.  When I sat down and looked at the kind of AM station I wanted to have, a 1KW amp with a 3000VDC supply didn't quite fit.

You are right, I should have been more thick skinned and may have been if I hadn't let it discourage me so much when I found out the amp had been heavily modified. 

Thanks for everything and I mean everything.

- JT

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Last time I checked, a man can sell any radio he owns, and it's nobody's damn business.

That said, we do yank each others' chains, and it does motivate. I've done more antenna work after getting told I was piss weak, and I've done more audio mods after being told I sounded like crap. Next time it might be wise to let the newbie get hip to this fact before we "motivate" him to much.

[KD3CN]

JT,

I'm also an AM (and homebrewing) newbee.  I built a class e rig over the period of about 10 months based on QIX's designs.  Put it on the air this past spring.  So far I'm told I sound great and put out a good signal given my marginal inverted V antenna.  Check it out on my webpages if you like.

The last thing I'd do is put down tube gear.  It's the remembrance of the smell of burnt lint and the glow of tubes that turned me on to radio in the first place!  However for someone who doesn't have a basement full of boat anchors, no experience over 120VAC, and a want to get on the air with a great AM signal, class e is hard to beat.  Having said that I'm currently working on a nice little Eico 720 to put on the air and do some learning.  In the mean time I swing a decent maul on AM with my class e rig...  Whether it's hollow state or solid state, get into what suits you, get on AM.  Look forward to hearing you!

If there's anything I can help you with on a class e project just email me.

Karl (KD3CN)

[flintstone mop]

WOW 5 pages!!!

Fred

[John K5PRO]

JT,
Been away underground for the past week, but I see that you passed on that Chippewa. I wanted to mention, that it may have been converted to grounded grid linear operation, I turned down one in Seattle a few years ago that got butchered that way. Its OK for SSB, but not so great for AM, exp if you plan to high level modulate the plate voltage. Of course, high level modulation of the chippewa is already asking for arc overs, since the plate tuning cap is not spaced to handle the audio and B+ voltage.

Also, that other tube, looked completely wrong in it.

One more thing, that iron was single phase. Three phase power transformers for HV have three vertical cores of windings on them.

I have a Chippewa that has been modified also, to get rid of the dropping resistor/VR tube screen supply, instead having a small Stancor screen power transformer in it. I still need to check all the wiring as some of it doesn't look real strong for 700 VDC.

I have just gotten the matching KS1 power supply, delivered from a ham in CA, today. So I may get that monster on the air someday.

Mine too had the cracked meter, i wish i had a spare one.

Roger, WQ9E, if you have those high res photographs of your stock KL1, I would appreciate seeing them. Let me know.
thanks
John

[W1IA]

I respect what you are saying Slab, I really do.  However, this project really wasn't for me.  The Chippewa was part of a package deal I traded equipment for.  When I sat down and looked at the kind of AM station I wanted to have, a 1KW amp with a 3000VDC supply didn't quite fit.

You are right, I should have been more thick skinned and may have been if I hadn't let it discourage me so much when I found out the amp had been heavily modified. 

Thanks for everything and I mean everything.

- JT

JT, come on back when you're waste deep in exploding MOSFETs! There's a bunch of guys on here that are real experts on the solid state stuff. And if you post pics of a class E rig, make them real big & hi res because us old geezers can't see that stuff very well, that's why we stick to tubes.

Mack

I am helping JT and the days of exploding mosfets is behind us. There was a lot of experimentation in the early days and with the current designs it very rare to have such problems. My big rig has been flawless for more time than I can remember and I will be sure that JT has the guidance to build a quality rig.

So far he has a good start and I am confident he will come on with a strapping and stable rig.

Brent W1IA

[N1ESE]

John, thanks for the input.  Turns out that plate transformer came from Timtron initially and he kinda wants it back.  I just need to figure out how to get it to him.  I'm a pretty big guy but very weak due to health problems.  I can barely lift it off the ground.  Heh.
 
- JT

[N1ESE]

No smoke, no fire, no kaboom! What fun is that!

There may be some of that tomorrow when I go to fire up the HV supply I should have finished tomorrow if my relay arrives.  *grin*  Glad I have a variac.

- JT