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Author Topic: Help with mating an HP-23A power supply to the MT-1 Cheyenne  (Read 6666 times)
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AF9J
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« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2007, 07:19:31 PM »

I finished wiring it up last night. Fired it up, and - nothing.  I checked all of my connections, and they're fine.  Then I checked the power supply manual, and it seems like I have to wire a jumper between Pins 9 & 10 since I don't seem to really have AC power feed control (to the power supply), from the rig  So, I did that, and still, no luck.  Oh well, I guess for the 10,000th time, I get to find out the hard way what's wrong with a radio.

73,
Ellen - AF9J
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kf6pqt
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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2007, 09:14:18 PM »

Crap!

I'm watching this thread as I've got a Cheyenne on its way to me as well. I need another screen-modulated heathkit no more than I need an extra hole in my head, but hey, it was cheap, and its got a VFO, so i can do AM outside the window.


-Jason kf6pqt
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W6IEE, formerly KF6PQT
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CW is just a narrower version of AM


« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2007, 03:49:33 PM »

Ellen,

Have you verified that is the supply ON and working (with a meter)?

Do you have fillaments lit up yet?

Mike
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W1GFH
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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2007, 03:58:34 PM »

The Heathkit Cheyenne should be outlawed! Too many people waste too much time fussing to get a PW signal on the air!  Roll Eyes Grin OK, I'm kidding, but Jason I don't know if you have heard WA6JUS from South Bay on the air with his Cheyenne lately, it is sounding good but barely copyable. IMO, these rigs were meant not as fixed stations, but to allow AMers to go mobile, a worthy cause.
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"A perfect 1:1 SWR is for sissies" - Joe W1GFH
AF9J
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« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2007, 04:08:11 PM »

Yup Mike,

I checked that.  I a friend of mine (who called me to say hi), who used to be a ham, and worked as an RF tech for a defense contractor, and used to have an SB101, told me to run a resistance check on the primary winding of the power supply, with the plug in (it has the jumper for the AC power switch), and that it should be near 8 ohms.  I got 5.8 ohms, so it's fine.  But guess what?  It was off handedly mentioned that the filament voltage is AC.  THAT threw me for a loop. I thought it was DC!!  So my ground on the power supply is for the LV & HV B+, which are DC.  The filament ground is the FILAMENT COMMON on the power supply. This also explains why I had no lit up dial lamps.  They probably run off of the filament supply.  So, I have to use BOTH Cheyenne grounds.  I was also told that there's a dirty little secret about Heathkit power supplies, they run floating grounds.  Go figure.  I'm wiring up the filament ground as I write this (besides, condx. on the bands are lousy, so I'm taking a break from doing the WPX CW).  I'll let you know in a little while, if that did the trick.

Ellen - AF9J
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AF9J
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« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2007, 04:29:43 PM »

Fine and dandy Joe,

But, remember not all of us live in (or can afford) houses with nice big yards.  So we're stuck with being in apartments.  As a result, that means not being able to run 100 or 200w of carrier, without risking getting into your neighbors' loser, consumer electronics devices.  It's bad enough when it's quacking SSB, but when they can hear every work your saying - that's trouble in the making.  Sure it's a pain to use low power and marginal antennas on the low  bands, but on 20 & above, it isn't too bad.  That's one of the reasons I've been checking out 10 & 6 so much lately.  Remember, there's more to ham radio that 160, 75 & 40 meters.  I wish I could get more people to try 20, 15, & 10m AM when the bands are open.  I know many, if not most of you hate QRP.  But I work both coasts with monotonous regularity on 5W with SSB, on 20, 15, and 10.  So, 25W of AM carrier is plenty on 20 & above when condx. are good.   Also, you can still have a decent QSO, without sounding like a version of the VOA.  If a person wants to, hey cool.  But, I didn't get into ham radio to let out my inner broadcaster.  There, I really don't feel like debating. Wiring changes have been made.  I'm going to give it a try.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

The Heathkit Cheyenne should be outlawed! Too many people waste too much time fussing to get a PW signal on the air!  Roll Eyes Grin OK, I'm kidding, but Jason I don't know if you have heard WA6JUS from South Bay on the air with his Cheyenne lately, it is sounding good but barely copyable. IMO, these rigs were meant not as fixed stations, but to allow AMers to go mobile, a worthy cause.
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W4FCC
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« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2007, 07:28:45 PM »

Well said! Smiley

 Rick

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AF9J
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« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2007, 08:58:59 PM »

Hi Everybody,

Sorry this took so long. I fired up the Cheyenne after I added the filament ground wire. Guess what.  It didn't work!!  Ugh!! In disgust I put things away, and decided to check things out tomorrow.  Besides, I had laundry to do.  Just as I was about to carry my laundry to the laundromat in the basement of my apartment building, the friend I mentioned a couple of postings back (who turned me on to the fact that the filamament is AC, and that I'd need a filament ground), called to ask how things went.  I said, not too good. So, the laundry was put down, and over the phone we went through the power supply, and then the Cheyenne.  The power supply checked out as OK (so at least I didn't get sold a bill of goods by Mr. ePay Power Seller).  Since I was getting no filaments or freq. display lamps (which are run off of the filament voltage) at all, we traced the filament circuit, and I did continuity checks.  By all rights, it was concluded that the filaments should be fine. 

That left only one thing - the multifunction switch on the front panel, that turns the radio on & off, and selects the mode.  It was possible that it was oxidized. I turned it through its movement a dozen times or so, plugged in the power cable I'd made, turned on the power supply, turned on the radio, and wouldn't you know it, IT WORKED!!  The lamps lit, and the filaments came on in all of the tubes for the first time in umpteen years!  Yeah!!  My friend then told me that some of the earlier Heathkits have a design flaw - the filament voltage (and as a result, the power on function) runs right through the rotary function switch.  This switch is not as sturdy electrically or mechanically, as the typical rocker or toggle switch you use for these functions, so there are potential reliability issues. 

I'll do some more work on the Cheyenne tomorrow (I still have to do laundry). I might fire it up for a few hours, and let things settle/burn in, since the radio has sat unused for so long.  I'll have to get some Caig De-oxit to clean out that switch some more.

Jason, if you need a copy of the Cheyenne manual, and/or want to know what I did to wire it up, let me know.  In essence, you're using 5 of the 6 pins on the power plug.  Thanks for all of your input people.  With the exception of the finals on my Kenwood TS-820, and guitar amps, I'm in unfamiliar territory with regards to tubes. Most of my experience is in solid state.   Please forgive me if my questions are stupid, and my frustration shows.

73,
Ellen - AF9J
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K1MVP
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« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2007, 09:35:20 PM »

The Heathkit Cheyenne should be outlawed! Too many people waste too much time fussing to get a PW signal on the air!  Roll Eyes Grin OK, I'm kidding, but Jason I don't know if you have heard WA6JUS from South Bay on the air with his Cheyenne lately, it is sounding good but barely copyable. IMO, these rigs were meant not as fixed stations, but to allow AMers to go mobile, a worthy cause.

These PW rigs are IMO a good way for a new person to start to get experience with AM.
"jumping into" a 500 to 1000 watt transmitter can be looking for trouble(also my opinion).

There is also a real "easy" or "simple' way to increase the power outpoot or give it a "kick in the pants",--
just feed the PW rig into a good linear, an Ameritron, an Heathkit SB-200, or 220 or anything similar,
and ya can get 150 to 250 watts out with only 10 t0 15 watts into the amp.

                                                73, K1MVP
P.S,Ellen, AF9J,
             Good job fixin your problems,(mating the HP-23 to the Cheyenne,--By the way these problems
             can occur with ANY rig, be it homebrew, older commercial (high or low power) etc.
             What gets me is, after I may have restored an older rig,(homebrew or commercial) and I get
             it to function great,--I may put it on the shelf for a period of time(6 months to a year)
             and  I decide to "fire it up" again, and it will develop a problem just sittin on the shelf,
             for no good reason, and back it has to go on the bench.(welcome to the world of BA`s)   
 
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kf6pqt
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« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2007, 09:37:21 PM »

Cool, glad it works!

Mine hasn't shown up yet. Already have the manuals from BAMA. I've also got a Heathkit transistorized 12v mobile supply, that should add to the fireworks.

 Joe, I'm collecting mobile rigs for a reason... Wink 

Ground breaking begins on the 2x 811a amp this weekend.

And for fixed station 6m, I scored a really beat Heathkit Seneca (2x 6146) at TRW this morning for $20!

-Jason kf6pqt
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AF9J
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« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2007, 09:49:13 PM »

Hi again people,

Laundry is in the washing machines, and I have some spare time.  Jason - an Andy Jackson for a Seneca?  Whoah!  What are you going to use for a receiver?  WHen I can get the scratch, I'm hoping to get my hands on an old Clegg.  Rene - yeah, isn't that something, Old Man Murphy sure does strike, when you let stuff sit. What a pain!  I almost feel that way now, that I shut off the Cheyenne.  It's like, what's next?

73,
Ellen - AF9J
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kf6pqt
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« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2007, 12:16:23 AM »

Oops, thats right, its only a transmitter... I'm used to my Gonset G50 which is both... Have to give that some thought, I'm sure my NC-300 is stone deaf up that high.

I do have a little solid state comverter-thing called a Tunaverter that downconverts 6m to 1500kc, sooo, maybe an ancient hollow-state Galvin (proto-Motorola) car radio?
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AF9J
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« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2007, 02:01:58 PM »

Jason,

You could always do the reverse of what I'm doing until I bring the Cheyenne on line.  I'm using a transceiver (in this case, my FT-897D) for the transmitter, and the SX-96 for the receiver. Use your G-50 for the receiver, and your Seneca for the transmitter.  Besides, the Seneca probably has a bit more oomph then the G-50.  If you use the converter/AM radio combination, you'll probably desense them, when you transmit with the Seneca, since they more than likely don't have a Standby function, receiver gain  controls, or receiver mute capability.  Your G-50 probably has at least receiver gain control, and power standby, so at the very least, you can sort of use this setup without maving to modify receiver internals, to prevent nuking the receiver.  You won't have PTT capability, but it will still be usuable, until you get a receiver that's better matched to the Seneca.  Otherwise, use your NC-300.  To overcome its deafness on 6 (which was pretty common on most VHF receivers, until well into the late 70s, or early 80s), use a receive preamp. 

73,
Ellen - AF9J
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« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2007, 03:03:25 PM »

                    " sure my NC-300 is stone deaf up that high. "


A MPF 102 can be jay essed into the front end , after the first set of tuned ckts. Its got a high value Z into the devise so you'll not screw up the tuned ckts...  probably any handbook after 1970 will have a ckt fer yew...  You are not looking for a high value of amplification here. You want enough to open the ears up, and to give you a nice noise figure...  It is an easy devise to play with and can give you hours of fun...

P.S. a 1 meg resistor gate to gnd and a 9 volt batt  are a nice starting point if you wanna play today.   or a diode, a cap and a 12v fil.tap off   -- rat shack carries these things (Model: MPF102 FET
Catalog #: 276-2062)....   $1.29 a piece) ----  DigiKey wants 0.27 a piece


klc

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WU2D
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CW is just a narrower version of AM


« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2007, 07:10:48 PM »

Ellen Thank God it works!

These types of problems are the best kind.


blown or missing fuses

dial string broken

dirty tube sockets, jacks or plugs

selenium RectumFrier

Shorted or open microphone cables

I scored a nice vintage stereo that "didn't work" because of a dirty on-off switch. Another common receiver failure is the speaker. "The radio don't work- Don't hera nuttin".


WU2D  Mike
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AF9J
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« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2007, 08:37:09 PM »

Thanks Mike,

I burned in the Cheyenne for about 5 hours on Sunday, since it sat unused for so long.  I'm wiring up the D-104 I got for it, to the 4-pin male Amphenol plug John, W3JN gave me, as I write this.  I had a heart stopping moment 15 minutes ago, when I dropped the tiny lock screw, that holds the end cap (that contains the mic pins) into the shell, into the carpet!  Luckily, after some frantic searching, I found it.  Well, back to wiring the mic.  It looks like I'm going to have to strip some more wire, so I have enough to feed into the pins.

73,
Ellen - AF9J
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