Need antenna suggestions?

[VE3GZB]

I'm wanting to try to QSO to places overseas (England, Germany, etc..) and I figure that 20m looks like a good band for this.

My antenna to date has been a 40m inverted Vee anchored to the top of the old 30ft TV tower. It was aimed to transmit N-S because there were two convenient small trees to tie the ends of the inverted Vee to. I had decent results with this.

Aiming the Vee to transmit E-W, I lose this advantage. I can anchor one leg of the Vee to the roof, but the other side of the Vee has no place to anchor on our property.

What about strapping some speaker wire to the roof of the house dipole-style and feeding it this way with Coax? The roof is about 20 ft from the earth, not very high. Any chance it would work?

The antenna absolutely has to be as discreet/stealth as possible, the neighbours and family aren't exactly antenna-friendly. Yea it sounds nuts because the 40m inverted Vee wasn't totally invisible either - but maybe my neighbours have too much time on their hands so they complain about crap that makes no sense just because they can.

The only feedline I have installed to work with is RG 58, so whatever I set up has to work with that cable.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks and 73s,
geo
VE3GZB

[WA1GFZ]

just do it

[k4kyv]

The antenna absolutely has to be as discreet/stealth as possible, the neighbours and family aren't exactly antenna-friendly. Yea it sounds nuts because the 40m inverted Vee wasn't totally invisible either - but maybe my neighbours have too much time on their hands so they complain about crap that makes no sense just because they can.

Sounds like the insanity is creeping up into North Country as well.  

You didn't say anything about any legal restrictions such as zoning or HOA rules. I'd say put up the best antenna you can and tell them to mind their own bees wax.

The situation will only continue to get worse if hams keep on sneaking round on their own property with their tails tucked between their legs just to put up an antenna.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Good Neighbor goes two ways.  If your antenna installation is safe, legal, and stays inside your property line your neighbors will have to tolerate it.  You can do what you like to keep it low key/discrete but then you will just have to accept any performance impact. 

A 20 meter dipole is pretty small as HF antennas go, and you only have to get it 36ft above ground to be a half-wave or so high. Put the center point up on the 30' TV tower, and run the ends to stakes on the ground with ropes making an inverted V.  Put in several sets of stakes and then you can rotate your dipole by switching stakes.

Like GFZ says "JUST DO IT".   No antenna is perfect, but the worst antenna is the one that doesn't get build while searching for that last dB.

[K5UJ]

George,  Don is right.  I imagine this is not the advice you were looking for and apologize if it is not helpful however consider this directed at all hams; not just you but you in the third person.    The idea antennas are ugly is subjective.   Lots of people go to art museums and think some sculpture is ugly; to others they are beautiful.  Complain to the museum director and he or she will tell you to get lost. 

Neighbors can consider your antenna objet d'art..  More seriously, do you have above ground power lines?  If you do, ask them if they complain about wood poles going up the street laden with fat cables, phone and CATV lines.  Oh, they are probably okay you see, because they use them.  Well, you use your antenna wire. 

The blame for establishing this antennas are shameful mind-set rests with publishers of magazines and books such as ARRL, CQ and (I hate to say it) Electric Radio.   They continually run articles on how to hide antennas, as if we are all part of the French Resistance, operating behind enemy lines during WW2, or doing something illegal.   ARRL et al. should stop egging on this hidden antenna insanity, which only encourages people to bully hams, and help hams to get a "don't like it you'll get used to it" attitude.  That last part is true.  Most knee jerk reactions to antennas have to do with sudden changes to the landscape.   After a few weeks people no longer notice them.

Rob

[Ralph W3GL]

     Come on guys, George ask for suggestions, not a discussion about HOAs, etc...

     George, as I recall, your N-S Inverted Vee is at about 30' on a piece of TV mast.
     It's fed with a run of RG-58.  You have stated before it works fine on 40 with your
     transceiver...  

     I would cut a 20 meter 1/2 wave by formula (add several inches to each half for wrapping
     around the insulators). Then connect the dipole in parallel with the 40 meter wire.  
     Pull the 20 meter wire out at 90 or so degrees from the 40 meter wires and make some
     way to tie the ends to the house.  

     If they (aprox. 16' each) are too long, use a piece of dowel to support the wire and let it
     hang over the edge of the roof...You should put some sort of insulation on any dowel
     rods as the voltage gets a bit hi out near the ends of a dipole...

     The 20 meter might need to be trimmed for best SWR and the 40 could need some
     attention but that is simple.  Yes, you can  feed both wires with a common feed...

[w4bfs]

take a look at this months qst ... hope this helps

[Ralph W3GL]

        He don't appear in the ARRL membership listings so no QST in his mail box !

[K5UJ]

I just went to the ARRL web site and logged in and did a search on my own callsign and the result was nothing found in their member directory.  So, something is wrong with it and he may be in there but it will look like he isn't.  I don't see why they need a member directory when there is qrz.com, hamcall, and others.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I just went to the ARRL web site and logged in and did a search on my own callsign and the result was nothing found in their member directory.  So, something is wrong with it and he may be in there but it will look like he isn't.  I don't see why they need a member directory when there is qrz.com, hamcall, and others.

You have to Edit Your Profile and add a check mark to this:
"Allow ARRL to show my profile on the website
When you click this option, information from your profile will appear in the Member Directory. Other ARRL members will be able to search for you and connect with you."

[WQ9E]

Ralph's suggestion is the most practical and it will work fine to just add the 20 meter dipole in parallel.  It used to be common practice to build such antennas using the flat multiconductor antenna rotor control cable and I used one made that way (80,40, and 20 meter elements with 15 meter coverage via 40) as a portable antenna for many years.

 With vintage gear (or a tuner) the 40 meter dipole will also work fine on 15 meters giving you 3 bands.  As a novice, I worked my first DX (VQ9MI) on 15 meters using my 40 meter inverted V which ran along the eaves of the 2 story house.

[WA1GFZ]

not taking crap from anyone or giving it is a good life style

[Ed-VA3ES]

Geo., there is one immutable fact in ham radio:  hams need antennas.  You will have to get used to it.  More to the point, your neighbours will have to get used to it!   I would politely tell the neighbours to  f.o..   Your family is  another matter.    They will just have to get used to antennnas.   There is just no way around these facts.

Some kind of negotiation may be needed, but in the end, the antennas must win out... or give up ham radio.  

Sorry, but that is the blatant and unvarnished truth about the matter.

My 55' tower with beams, verticals, and wire all over the place may look ugly to some of my neighbours, but too bad - so sad... the installation is is engineeringly sound,  legal, licensed by Industry Canada and conforms to all local by-laws. My neighbours can go take a flying leap.  Luckily, my family doesn't care.

[KX5JT]

I am soooo grateful that I live in what USED to be the country.  Although subdivisions are popping up left and right in the area where cattle or rice used to be, I still have no restrictions and about 66 acres behind me of family land that is still being farmed, usually rice.   I would imagine it makes for an excellent ground!  I do very well with a modest power level and dipole height.  I don't think I'll ever move off this land unless hurricanes push the Gulf north.  I suppose that could happen someday but hopefully not in my lifetime.  I only need to grow some tall aluminum towers.  Well maybe I *should* plant some pine trees.  How tall would they be in 25 years when I retire?

Geo, I feel for you buddy but I think I have to agree with the others here.  If there are no LEGAL restrictions, forget what the neighbors think!  Get your family on board and put up antennas!  Although I have made no effort towards stealth, using black insulated 14 gauge wire makes for a nearly invisible antenna unless you're really looking for it.

73, John

[VE3GZB]

I'll do the best I can then, thanks!

73s, geo

PS: The thread on Yvonne is locked so I can't post to it. Here's a picture of her taken on May 18 with her friend Jan on Yvonne's left.

http://99.239.154.87/Yvonne/May_18/IMG_1305.JPG

[WD8BIL]

Geo, 1/2 wave slanted dipolio off the east side of the tower should work OK FINE!

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Also, check out some articles on building simple tilted yagis.  Basically a wire yagi with 1x2 spreaders at each end.  One end anchored up high, other end anchored by rope to stake.  Manually rotatable, to different stakes, and does provide a bit of gain.  I have the article in PDF somewhere and I modeled it in EZNEC cause I was skeptical.  The model says it will work, the pattern will just be skewed a bit due to the tilt. No big deal for a gain increase over a dipole.