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Author Topic: FCC Denies Petitions to Bring Back Morse Code Testing  (Read 10618 times)
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« on: February 28, 2008, 05:59:28 PM »

From the ARRL Web Site, dated 2/28/08

"Anthony R. Gordon, KG6EQM -Gordon asserts that "'the failure to keep the Morse code telegraphy requirement....

Russell D. Ward, W4NI - In the MOO, Ward states that he "encountered difficulty" in submitting his comments and reply comments..."


For the complete story, go here:
http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/02/28/100/?nc=1
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 06:58:20 PM »

Hilarious. What planet is this guy living on?


Quote
Gordon asserts that "'the failure to keep the Morse code telegraphy requirement intact, at least as a required examination element for the Amateur Extra Class operator license, fails to take into consideration the significant national security implications that require retaining adequate examination safeguards to insure the viability that Morse code telegraphy provides, not only to the Amateur service, but the nation as well.'" Gordon argues that the requirement should be retained so that amateur operators can act as "a 'strategic reserve,'" because there is "no assurance that...voice or digital modes will even be operationally viable in future emergency communication environments."

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N1ESE
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 07:00:09 PM »

Are there any sectors that still use morse code today?  Is it still in use by the military even?

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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2008, 08:36:24 PM »

I still hear a little cw while tuning across frequencies between the ham bands from time to time.  Like shortwave broadcasting, it is still used in lesser industrialised countries where they have limited access to the latest high technology.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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W1ATR
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 09:07:07 PM »

Hilarious. What planet is this guy living on?


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Gordon asserts that "'the failure to keep the Morse code telegraphy requirement intact, at least as a required examination element for the Amateur Extra Class operator license, fails to take into consideration the significant national security implications that require retaining adequate examination safeguards to insure the viability that Morse code telegraphy provides, not only to the Amateur service, but the nation as well.'" Gordon argues that the requirement should be retained so that amateur operators can act as "a 'strategic reserve,'" because there is "no assurance that...voice or digital modes will even be operationally viable in future emergency communication environments."





His statement makes me think of those hams you see driving around in the late 90's police cars with all the antenna's and a stack of scanners on the seat.
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 10:08:47 PM »

Are there any sectors that still use morse code today?  Is it still in use by the military even?


The CIA still hires Morse intercept operators AFAIK: CW is the method of choice for revolutionaries the world over.

  • Low power
  • Small Antennas
  • Simplicity
  • Much harder to trace than cell calls

Of course, the question remains of whether the next generation of freedom fighters will be able to get adequately trained operators now that hams don't need to know Morse ...  Roll Eyes

73, Bill W1AC
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KF1Z
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Are FETs supposed to glow like that?


« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 10:14:17 PM »

""...significant national security implications ...""



Uhhhh.... 


What?

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WA3VJB
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« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2008, 05:22:35 AM »

They will regret this. Down in the footnotes I imagined that I saw a reference that Osama bin Laden has switched to CW for his message traffic because he couldn't get the Navajo to come over for some encrypted voice runs.
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2008, 06:09:51 AM »

Still, Nothing Prevents anyone from developing Proficiency, as far as the False Flag Reasoning it's a misnomer at best...I have more belief in our military than what intell is released....

Raise the Bar on Knowledge.....
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WB2RJR
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« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2008, 08:28:18 AM »

From the SPAR comment on NPRM 05-235

"33. There have also been reports and statements that the military no longer uses Morse code and has no
need for people who know it, the exception being for a few people in Special Forces. To illustrate the
spread of misinformation, we note the following information listed as Military Occupational Specialties.

34. Field 98 -- Communications Intelligence (cf. http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/arjobs/bl98h.htm )
MOS 98H Communications locator/interceptor (requires Top Secret clearance)
“Major duties. The communications locator/interceptor performs and supervises detection, acquisition,
identification, exploitation and location of foreign communications employing International Morse Code
(IMC) and radio-printer (non-Morse) using signals intelligence/ electronic warfare (SIGINT/EW) collection
and location equipment and operates ground surveillance systems engaged in intelligence and information
gathering at all echelons. Performs collection management.”

35. Army Warrant Officer Jobs (cf. http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/arwarrant/bl352h.htm )
MOS 352H - Morse Intercept Technician
“Duties: Manages the personnel and technical assets of INSCOM intercept/EW activities. Coordinates,
plans, and supervises personnel engaged in intercept activity. Knows analytical techniques and has
training and experience in COMINT and EW. Conducts training of and employment of Morse intercept
equipment and personnel. Establishes work schedules and evaluates training and performance of
personnel. Conducts a continual training program to ensure Morse personnel are adept at their MOS.
Advises the commander and staff officers on employment and deployment of Morse intercept operations.
Conducts studies, analysis, and evaluation of collection evaluation statistics and is prepared to present
results to commander. Must know antenna theory and wave propagation.”

36. From the actual Army enlistment site (http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=96 ) :
“The nation's defense depends on information from foreign language newspapers, magazines, radio
broadcasts and other sources. Therefore, it's very important that some members of the Army be able to
read and understand the many languages of the world.
The Communications Locator/Interceptor is primarily responsible for performing and supervising the
detection, acquisition, location and identification of foreign communications using International Morse Code
(IMC) and radio-printer (non-Morse), as well as signals intelligence/electronic warfare (SIGINT/EW)
collection and location equipment. Some of your duties as a Communications Locator/Interceptor may
include: ...” (see website above for more details)

37. The U. S. Army also requires knowledge of Morse Code in the following 2 MOS's, both of which also
require Top Secret Security Clearance. It is of interest that the Army is presently offering enlistment and reenlistment
bonuses for all these Morse MOS's which means that people who qualify are in short supply. The
Army has about 130 MOS's most do not offer bonuses.

38. From http://goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=174
Signals Intelligence Analyst (98C)
“As a Signals Intelligence Analyst, you may be involved in:
Recording radio signals coming in from foreign forces
Studying radio signals to understand the tactics used by foreign military forces
Locating the sources of foreign radio signals
Translating Morse code
Keeping logs of signals interceptions “

39. From http://goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=30
Special Forces Communications Sergeant (18E)
“Special Forces Soldiers in the Army will conduct offensive raids, demolitions, intelligence, search and
rescue and other missions from air, land or sea. Special Forces Communications Sergeants can operate
every kind of communications gear, from encrypted satellite communications systems to old-style highfrequency
(HF) Morse key systems. They also have serious computer/networking skills.”

40. Meanwhile in the U. S. Navy, the new rating for Radioman is Information Systems Technician. (See
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ratings/it.html ) As a part of the duties, the Navy still mentions
telegraphy:
“ ... operate radio-telephones and radio-teletypes, prepare messages for international and domestic
commercial telegraph, and send and receive messages via the Navy system, including satellites and
antennas.”

41. Similarly, the US Air Force lists the following Enlisted Career (Information is available on line at
http://www.airforce.com/careers/job.php?catg_id=2&sub_catg_id=3&af_job_id=301 )
Communication Signals Production Apprentice
“ ... Additionally, you will be trained to intercept and interpret International Morse Code signals. Your
contributions will have a direct impact on protecting our nation from foreign threats.”"


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WA3VJB
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« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2008, 08:55:09 AM »

Marty I don't see that you've taken a position yourself regarding the possible impact on military preparedness as a result of the FCC's ruling against these petitions in the Amateur Service.

But if you or others are linking the two, it would have helped Petitioners to document the number of troops coming into the positions you've listed as a result of expertise gained as licensees in the Amateur Service.

I doubt the hobby is much of a feeder for these positions, but it's an interesting question that should have been answered and submitted in these proceedings.

Maybe we should petition the FCC to suggest that the commercial General Radio License used by broadcast engineers, among others, must include AM experience from the Amateur Service.

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WD8BIL
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« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2008, 09:38:48 AM »

If  the powers to be need to know what a morse signal is saying they only need to fire up one of the many morse programs available. They don't need no stinkin' pool of operators. Hell... back in the 80s my vic 20 with a kantronics card did it. I'm sure the government security agencies can handle morse encryptied signals without a ham present !

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WA3VJB
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« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2008, 09:40:52 AM »

Buddly the way you send CW I wonder about that.



huh-HA !!
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K3ZS
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« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2008, 10:05:26 AM »

In a world with satellite communication and navigation, you don't need the more old fashion ways of doing these things.    But, what if we got into a space war where opposing forces start blowing up the satellites?
I hope they are still training the "ditty bops" in the military services.
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WA3VJB
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« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2008, 10:14:45 AM »

You're quite right, but the experts suggest it would not take a large scale space war. Apparently a one-shot could do it, with nothing more than a fairly low-tech weapon that could damage high-tech military satellites. Combined that with a regime that doesn't play by conventional diplomatic rules, and you've got something like this :

According to the Space Commission Report, the most terrifying and potentially destructive scenario involves a nuclear detonation in Low-Earth-Orbit (LEO).25  Figure 1 depicts the impact of a nuclear detonation on the lifetime of satellites.  According to the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, such a detonation would impact satellite operations for months. The report adds, that North Korea possesses the capability to place a nuclear devise in space.  Although this scenario is without a doubt the most dangerous course of action for a number of opponents with similar capabilities to that of North Korea, it is also the least likely. This is primarily because of the widespread space destruction that would affect not only the US but also some governments that North Korea cannot afford to alienate, namely the PRC who is North Korea’s largest trading partner.26

Source: http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/koskinas.html


But this still doesn't answer the morse code telegraphy question. How many radio hobbyists shop that skill to the Defense Department for the jobs Marty posted ?

And I don't see where taking out satellites or undercutting their functionality would shift any military comms toward CW.
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2008, 10:22:55 AM »

Quote
huh-HA !!

No Paul, that's:      .... ..  .... ..
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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2008, 10:29:42 AM »

eh, I could have something to say on this, but I'll just stop now.

going up to the hospital for blood tests. Drug levels are all screwed up. If they get it fixed maybe I can start working again soon on teh junk.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2008, 11:41:09 AM »

Regardless of whether you advocate know-code or no-code, you must admit that the FCC will never bring it back.  I have never heard of the FCC willingly reversing one of their decisions, once the R&O is released, regardless of the merits of the case.  They will never willingly admit that they made a rulemaking decision in error.

The only way you will ever see the FCC reverse a recent decision is when forced by an act of Congress.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2008, 11:59:23 AM »


The only way you will ever see the FCC reverse a recent decision is when forced by an act of Congress.


Or *gasp*....by the destruction of civilization as we know it!!!   Shocked

I was reading the topic title and thinking....yeah, big surprise there. I know CW's #1 fan 'JN was probably excited at the thought of starting his own code school for building better hams. 

The Johnny Novice School of Morse Code: Know it or Hit the Road

Don't get on the air without it! Grin

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« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2008, 12:38:58 PM »

  "  No Paul, that's:      .... ..  .... ..  "

 No Budley , its      ....  ..  ....  ..      .._.   _...    _ _ _  _ _


 We will tie the ribbons on it,  OM.  73

klc
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kb3nqd
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2008, 12:51:34 PM »

Quote
Gordon asserts that "'the failure to keep the Morse code telegraphy requirement intact, at least as a required examination element for the Amateur Extra Class operator license, fails to take into consideration the significant national security implications...."

We will of course need Morse Code and a copy of Windows 98 for the next time the aliens invade....
 Tongue
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2008, 01:35:09 PM »

Quote
Gordon asserts that "'the failure to keep the Morse code telegraphy requirement intact, at least as a required examination element for the Amateur Extra Class operator license, fails to take into consideration the significant national security implications...."

We will of course need Morse Code and a copy of Windows 98 for the next time the aliens invade....
 Tongue

Second Edition Only!
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