Looking for advice on how to get started in AM in KY

[KI4THX]

Well, Ive had some exposure to AM but I am wanting to make a step towards a dedicated AM setup. Ive got plenty of vintage tube gear around here that I have restored, and just plain ol' breathed life back into. That's kind of how I get my kicks...with a scrubbing brush, dawn dish detergent mix and a lot of elbow grease and a prayer. Ive especially been eyeballing the older Johnson stuff, boatanchor stuff that glows.
BC-610 ? Hey... Ive got room for that !

Ive not had much luck browsing ebay for gems in the rust either, where do I need to look for this type of equipment ? Old transmitters surely need new homes too, right ?

Currently, I have handy a rice rig (the problem) ts-2000, Henry 2K classic X, Nye Viking MB-v-a tuner and a beat up Heil with a hm-5 cartridge.

The 2000 is nice and all, but its too easy. I like to "operate" equipment with soul.... really havnt found that in the 2000. rubber buttons....and all.


So, is there a AM fan convention somewhere ? I do enjoy hearing those warm melodious AM signals on 75, I got to get something going. Any advice ?

Thanks ahead,
Ernest
KI4THX

[K5UJ]

Hi ernest,

You have the right idea.  As I always say, if you have the knowledge, equipment and ability to understand and repair modern gear (flex radios, plastic radios, class E and D rigs) then go ahead and run them.  Otherwise, get into tubes.  In other words, the goal is to avoid running mystery boxes with which you have no idea what to do with if one breaks.  I used to be like that (and still am in some cases) and I wanted to be the kind of ham most hams were like when I was a novice in the early '70s.  Back then every adult ham I knew had a bench and fixed his own gear.  That was one reason why I started moving into vintage tube gear. 

The Henry 2K is okay for now but the TS2000 is something you want to use for tuning around, VHF FM, or just sell it to a VHF slopbucket CW operator (it is a popular rig with VHF ops).  I look for gear at hamfests, this For Sale section here, on eBay (sometimes) and in the antique radio section at qth.com http://swap.qth.com/c_radioanq.php  There are other places too.  Go ahead and try the TS2000 on AM for now.  It probably won't sound good but it's better than nothing.  Don't know anything about the 2K but my rule of thumb is to take the amp's total plate dissipation and divide that by 5 to get the carrier output power that is probably okay if the amp is designed for slopbucket and CW and has "quiet" cooling. 

Look for rigs like Johnson Rangers, Viking 1 and 2s, Heathkit DX100 (I'd avoid the Apache because it lacks 160).

GL
Rob

[WQ9E]

Rob provided good advice and most of the vintage Johnson and Heathkit gear is fairly easy to work on and reasonably priced.  I would add the Valiant to Rob's list of transmitters to consider.  The Viking 1 and 2 are some of the most reliable rigs Johnson built but you will want to add an external VFO since they are crystal controlled, the model 122 is the matching VFO but any of the vintage VFOs will drive it.  I strongly prefer the classic plate modulated rigs but some of the newer rigs like the Kenwood 599A or D twins work pretty well on AM-especially combined with your amplifier.

The BC-610 is an excellent AM rig and they do show up for sale with some regularity.  Mine is one of the older style which I prefer to the later rounded cabinet models.  I found it on the Midwest Classic Radio net (meets on 3885 on Saturday mornings at 7:30) which you could easily hear from your location in KY.  The Collins ART-13 is another popular AM military rig.

[K9DXL]

I would add the Heathkit DX-60 as a good choice to add to your list, especially as an exciter for your linear.  The good thing about Heathkits is they were made to be built by average people, the manual has lots of diagrams and pictures, components are secured with nuts, bolts and lockwashers (no rivets to drill out if you have to replace something.)  The bad thing about a Heathkit is:  it's a Heathkit!  You probably won't have any idea who built it, or if it worked correctly in the first place. 
Back to the good stuff - there are many, many mods available for this rig on line.  A good place to start is the DX-60 thread that's running right now here on AMfone.

[KI4THX]

Thank you Gentleman, 

K5UJ Rob, That's kind of been my lifes mantra....to fix things myself. Im also a heck of a fine mechanic, a decent plumber, fair woodworker and the local toy fixer-upper at my residence..ha. Nothing sparks my eye quite like a good vintage project. Usually I purchase non-working equipment on the cheap, and turn it around to working gear. Still have young kids in school, so my budget can be pretty tight at times. Thanks for the advice !


WQ9E, There seems to be more Johnson stuff than any other Ive seen around. More than likey that's the route Ill go. There is (was?) a good looking Valiant II on ebay this week, pretty steep for me at around 700 or so...I don't even think it was verified to work either. He said it was rare ? Hmmmm, you know how stuff becomes "rare" all of the sudden on ebay....I don't know too much about the vintage AM gear as of yet, kinda a sheep amongst the wolves when it comes to pricing. Thank you for your reply.


And lastly K9DXL, I love the Heathkit stuff. Usually Ill strip Heathkits back down to the bare chassis, buy the assembly manual on-line and rebuild. Ive done quite a few sb-200's 220's DX-35's and 40's, and numerous others. Currently have a DX-40 by the bench that was a basket case given to me by a friend here local. The top of the chassis had some weather damage, so I stripped it and sanded the top of the deck and polished for good luck. Fun project indeed !



So I guess I just need to key up this mic on some AM nets and get to socializing !

[K9DXL]

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with.

[WQ9E]

The Valiant II is far less available than the original because by the time it came out SSB was taking over from AM and transceivers were becoming popular so it was sold in low quantity for a short time.  But they aren't rare, I have two awaiting restoration and the second one was free.  Both seem to work but need the front panels redone, the paint prep was horrible for the Valiant II.  The only advantage the Valiant II has over the original is it is ready to go with the Johnson SSB adapter without modification.

WRL also made some nice smaller transmitters and the Multi Elmac AF-67 and AF-68 mobile transmitters are also good choices.  Also interesting is the Harvey Wells TBS-50 series but be careful because some of these were sold for use only with carbon microphones so you would need to either build the audio preamp stages of the "deluxe" models or use an external amplifier.  I passed over a couple of these at hamfests while looking for one with the low level audio stages built in.  These Multi Elmac and Harvey Wells transmitters were primarily sold for mobile use so they require an external power supply.  Gonset and Morrow also made several nice mobile rigs again requiring external supplies, the modulator is part of the Gonset G77 supply so don't buy one buy itself unless you want to homebrew a modulator.  Also nice are the Collins 32V series (although parts of them are a pain to work in) and the B&W 5100 series transmitters are quite nice.

I second the suggestion to look at the DX-60.  It and other controlled carrier AM transmitters work very well with modern linear amplifiers and are far easier on the amplifier's power supply and cooling system.  Some complain because the receiving op's S meter will vary like it does with a SSB signal but that is what AGC is for   Some of the controlled carrier setups sound very good and they are lighter and less expensive than full carrier plate modulated rigs. 

[WA3VJB]

Ernest I'm looking forward to hearing you, regardless of whether you're on your current rig or something more enjoyable that you acquire in the future.

I suggest dropping a line on the guys at the Southeastern AM Radio Club, SAMRC, and checking in with their regularly scheduled gathering (links below).  Once you get to know some of them, and you've invested time and goodwill, chances are real good someone will shake loose a rig for you that otherwise is not on the market.

I like to call these transactions "inside the family," because they often are sent along with hopes the rigs will be used on the air and not flipped for revenue.

Another suggestion, look around for a retired broadcast transmitter.  If you've got the room for a Beastie 610, just go vertical and it would be the same footprint for a BC rig, at least in the 1000 watt-and-under category.  They aren't as plentiful, but the operating experience is very satisfying.

The SAMRC club station, WX4AM, is located in Clem, Georgia. The transmitters,
a Collins 20V3 and a Gates BC-250GY are remotely controlled.



Oh and by the way -- here's a photo to your comment: "That's kind of how I get my kicks...with a scrubbing brush, dawn dish detergent mix and a lot of elbow grease and a prayer."



SAMRC website:
http://207.45.187.74/~wa4kcy/Pagesamrc.htm

VE7KHZ's projects:
http://www.qsl.net/ve7khz/broadcast.html

[WB2EMS]

The TS-2000 actually doesn't sound too bad on AM. You can adjust the stock AM transmitter bandwidth up to about 3.5 Khz or more if I recall and do some equalization/shaping. I think Paul guided me to using an SM-58 mic with it and I got pretty good reports with it. I've moved on to a Flex 5000 but the TS2000 was a good AM rig when I was running it, for a ricebox.    The receive bandwidth I think can go out to 5 khz as well.

[KI4THX]

Thanks for the comments and positive words from all.

The glow of tubes has always been an addiction around here.... Ive even talked the XYL into getting her ticket, shes a General now. My youngest son loves to peek over the tops just like me, I think its genetic. That boy of mine can smell vintage dust warming up from two rooms over, ha. Hopefully we are not the only ones who have been known to shut the lights out to see that emanating dull glow.

[KA0HCP]

 Don't be afraid to get on the air with the TS-2000.  Many of the new rigs sound very good.  I've never heard anyone chased away or belittled for joining a conversation with a modern rig!   

The camaraderie of AM links us all.  bill

[ka4koe]

Is AM legal in KY? With that high octane blend of whiskey the state is known for, I'd expect hazardous pursuits would be verboten?

[ka4koe]

BTW, don't get a Valiant unless you have a soldering iron handy. I'm the poster child here on AMfone for Valiant issues. Everytime, it seems, that I get on the air, I hear "Aren't you the guy with all the Valiant problems that I've been reading about"?

[WA4JK]

Your not the first with a 50 year old Valiant that presents opprotunity to fix it. If you replace the padder caps with HV door knobs, the doorknob cap at the rf output and do a complete Hv and Lv power supply update. You have a solid performer. I would solid state the LV, use the spare LV fil. power output to buck with and clean it up. Once you do this, bypass the audio with a good reversed 8ohm to audio transformer to couple the 6146 modders. A little audio chain and an audio amp to drive the transformer and your have a 125-35w output full audio solid transmitter. Remember they are over 50 years old and most likely worked had for a long time. My experiance with my valliant was the best hands on fix it experiance I ever got. Sure let you see in action what you may have read about.

[KI4THX]

Cant do it...... cant do it.

It just doesn't feel right at all. I reach over and push the little rubber button and .."bleep"... a small change in a cold orange display lights in tiny chicklett blocks...."AM". My oversized fat-boy fingers fumbles to the other side of the transceiver to mindlessly stab at another rubber button through endless menus with options and sub-options and even sub-sub-options..... my mind spins and swirls.... the room seems to be closing in upon me. Feeling a drop of sweat fall from my forehead impact my index finger I snap !

Jumping up from my operating post I grab that little grey rice burning hunk of import ice and FLING it across the room ! Buttons fly, little rubber buttons. Hunks of heartless technology fall to the floor. I stand.....above....releaved....declairing AM has no room for Instant rice.

the end.

Might have a line on a Ranger,  feeling pretty optimistic.

Ha.

[KI4THX]

Is AM legal in KY? With that high octane blend of whiskey the state is known for, I'd expect hazardous pursuits would be verboten?

Barely legal here..barely. SSB has been known to be more influential negatively around here than those fine polite AM operators Im so used to hearing. I mean c'mon ... you can take 10 minutes to say what your trying to say on AM....a perfect gentlemans world for the casual fire water drinker.

[KI4THX]

Welp, the tubes arrived ahead of the Viking II I bought 12 days ago. Opened the boxes to find a mismatch in the 6146's. One is an "A" and the other is a "B".....

Not a good mix I gather.

Rummaging through the other equipment I ended up with TWO NOS GE 6146B, one half dead Sylvania 6146A and the original mismatched set that came. And as I type this, the 6146A that came with it just took a crap at the tester....... Here we go.

Guess Ill throw up a wanted add here and see what shakes out.

[ka4koe]

To quote my deceased father....that sucker'll break if you look at it crooked.

[W2VW]

Old AM rigs will work fine with different mis-matched 6146s. I've done this many times. Sometimes one will have a lot of gain compared to others but most times it is not an issue.

[KI4THX]

I hope that is not an indication of the future glare inside the case when it arrives. I have read very strong opinions on the mutts here,
 http://www.members.tripod.com/NRWILLIAMSON/t6146.txt

and here,
http://kb1zmx.wordpress.com/kenwood-ts-530s/the-6146b-story-fact-and-opinion/


If they Black suit AM Buzz-aaards say its OK, Im good with that.



"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, its dark, and we're wearing sunglasses."

[W2VW]

If it's on the internet it must be true.

[KI4THX]

There seems to be a shortage of "days of old" elmers around my block....and a library ? My library card expired in 1989. No....seems I am stuck to this decrepid invention they call the "internets".

Of course, helpful posts are much more greatly appreciated than a  standard pull from the book of cliche' terms.

 

[flintstone mop]

Hey Paul
I have done that operation many many times. I like 409 and Ammonia 'bout half and half of each and a brush to get in the nooks an crannies. Avoid water to meters and direct shot of high pressure spray on transformers. Looks like new. Let it sit many days in the hot sun. NOT a WINTER project.
Many boat anchor types really hate that approach using liquids and water spray.
I know a CE that would take studio equipment out to a car wash and spray the devil out of it. Meters were removed. During the smoking days the poor electronics would be infested with smell and sticky noisy attenuators. Gummy ugly mess...just think what a pair of lungs look like!!!
Fred

[k3sqp]

Hey Ernest,

"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got  a TS 2000, a Henry 2K, It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses...Hit it!"
Run what you brung, son...
Frank
K3SQP
" Am is not just a mode of operation..it's a way of  life"

[WQ9E]

Although I prefer to not run different series 6146 tubes in parallel most of the old rigs will be fine with this setup and matched tubes are not required.  I use 6146W tubes for most of my 6146 rigs and have used both W and B tubes without issue in numerous Johnson, Heathkit, B&W, and Geloso rigs.  Do NOT buy into all of the BS about problems with running B or W series tubes in the older rigs, they will work fine.  The only case I have found is some of the early Collins KWM-2 production had very marginal values in the neutralization circuit which were updated to work fine with any of the 6146 family of tubes.  In that case it wasn't a tube issue but rather a component value issue that wasn't the best choice for the original design.

The Viking II is an excellent first AM rig.  It is robust and easy to work on.