Super C

[ke7trp]

http://www.gapantenna.com/superc.htm


What do you guys think? It has a patent.

C

[WA1GFZ]

gap=crap

[ke7trp]

I talked to a guy on that little antenna and he was sounding fine on 20 meters.  I like the engineering aspects of it but dont expect a killer signal out of it. 

C

[WA1GFZ]

compared to what?

[ke7trp]

How did yours work?  Was yours on the ground or mounted on a mast? 

C

[KB2WIG]

Jerry Sevick did lotts 'o work with short ants.


klc

[k4kyv]

Looks like someone has come up with a ham version of the E-H and Cross-field AMBC antennas.  Probably with about equal outcome.

[K1JJ]

Might be able to buy one at Walmart in the pet dept a lot cheaper.

Looks like Gap has gone to the IsoTron dark side.

T

[ke7trp]

Its putting out a huge maul on 20 meters 

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

As Frank said, compared to what?  Compare it to a reference antenna, like a dipole and do A/Bs. When propagation is good, especially on the higher bands, almost any antenna will make a good signal at certain locations. A really good antenna will do this more often, like when conditions are supposedly bad, or the band is supposedly not open. It will also bust pileups at a much higher rate. All these must be observed over time, like months and years.

Its putting out a huge maul on 20 meters 

[ke7trp]

True. They compare it to a 1/4 vert.  Its suppsed to be better then that.  I have no idea. I thought it was very odd looking. Frank obviously did not like his.

C

[K1JJ]

We must remember that with antennas, a db is VERY hard-earned.

At the same height, a full-size 3el Yagi has only about 5db gain over a dipole.

I have measured a good mobile whip on a truck to be down only about 12db from a full-size dipole at 60' on 75M.


If 1/2 of our power is burned up in an antenna/feedline, that's only a 3db loss.


We should strive for perfect installations.  But in the real whirl add in feedline losses, installations with nearby obstructions, (interactions)  antennas not put up flat/straight/high enough, poor connectors, bad matches, etc., then we really pay the price. We need all the help we can get.  

My point is, if possible, with few exceptions it always pays to start out with a full-size antenna and go from there. (at least until room temperature super conductors become available..

T

[ke7trp]

Very true. I remember an argument about DB and station setup years ago.  I was always the type that made sure every single coax was perfect, I used the highest quality cable I could get my hand on.  Every aspect of the station was always the best it could be.  When talking about my new Andrews hardline I put up a guy told me,  "I would not walk across the room for 1 DB".  I told him. I would walk across the room ten times.

As for this antenna. I know nothing about it.  I have not seen one. I dont own one. I found it interesting that I spoke to a guy with one on the air. I dont think Even Gap is touting this to be the best antenna out there. I think its made for situations where you cant put up any kind of large antenna. Most hams are really limited on what they can put up.  If this in the backyard works, Then I support it and any other design that allows someone to enjoy the hobby.

C

[KB2WIG]

 "  "I would not walk across the room for 1 DB".  I told him. I would walk across the room ten times. "

Gud one.


klc

[W1ATR]

Looks like someone has come up with a ham version of the E-H and Cross-field AMBC antennas.  Probably with about equal outcome.

Crossed field antennas are great for making friends with the neighbors. I'd like to build one just to show the neighbors exactly how bad it really can be.

[K1JJ]

Crossed field antennas are great for making friends with the neighbors. I'd like to build one just to show the neighbors exactly how bad it really can be.

heheheh - good one.


Many years ago a guru ssb friend of mine once said... "Heck, with only one db, you can walk all over someone".    

Not that we want to do that, but he made a point.  Everyone starts in the same boat at  -1000db below the noise floor. We all use an antenna, ground reflections, feedlines, antenna supports, as much power as we choose, etc. When all is said and done, many stations are close to the same strength because they have average installations. It's all a comparative, relative thing, really.  Just a small edge by doing things that others don't want to do can make a big difference. The difference between two baseball players who hit 250 or 350 is small in numbers, but the salary difference is in the $ tens of millions. It's very difficult to compete with the big dogs in any field.

I can appreciate the frustration of having antenna limitations. I've been there. Over the years I lived in several apartments (and trailors) with very limited wires. We just set our priorities and do the best we can.

T

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

If this in the backyard works, Then I support it and any other design that allows someone to enjoy the hobby.

I completely agree. As hams we should also be wondering/asking if something else (that fits in the backyard) might work better. Otherwise, how would any new/better designs ever come along?

This is not a comment on the Super C. Asking questions is not putting down any antenna. Making comparison to a reference antenna is a good thing to do. Otherwise, how would we know if any new/better designs ever did come along?

Having been stuck on a 0.25 acre lot in the past, I understand some of the challenges. Given a choice, I would have wanted a larger lot. But I did learn a ton about limited space antennas. It pushed me to review the literature (there a bunch of info on limited space antennas out there), experiment and try a number of different antennas and feed configurations. To optimize for 160, I built my own tuner. I doubt I would have done any of that if I had a larger lot where I could easily throw up a coax-fed dipole for a number of different bands. So, in the end, it was a good thing, or at least that's what I kept telling myself when I was PW and getting stomped by guys with bigger lots and bigger antennas. 

[flintstone mop]

I bet another inch of snow and some wind and that thing is a goner.

Maybe a good limited space ant,,,,,,,dunno Time will tell.
FRED

 

[k4kyv]

With a full quieting signal, even 10 dB may not make a noticeable difference.  In most cases on HF, the change with +/- 3 dB is inaudible.  But when the signal is riding on the ragged edge, right down at the noise or QRM level, even a fraction of a dB can make the difference between readability and non-readability.

Reports on the C-F and E-H broadcast antennas have indicated that they are little or no improvement over any other short vertical of comparable height.  And to work optimumly for their (reduced) height, a full size ground radial system would still be needed.

Another company has been running ads for a short, top-loaded broadcast vertical that uses ordinary utility poles and a multi-conductor vertical element.  Sort of like half a dozen inverted L's back to back with the horizontal parts extending out radially  like spokes on a wheel. They claim it is FCC approved and radiates a ground wave within a fraction of a dB of a full size quarter-wave vertical. They caution that a full size radial system is required.

[Bill, KD0HG]

An infinitely small antenna (isotropic) is only some 2 db down from a full-sized dipole.
You gotta remember that.
As JJ said, it's how you succeed in keeping losses down. The environment also needs to be considered. A small antenna in an exceptional environment has a good chance of competing IF the losses and bandwidth can be intelligently dealt with. Most of the time, they're not.

I'll go with a 1-foot long dipole immersed in liquid helium.

[W1AEX]

Any antenna is better than nothing!

[KB2WIG]

I'm still looking for financial backing for my All Band Super-Nicrome Antenna.

klc

[flintstone mop]

I'm still looking for financial backing for my All Band Super-Nicrome Antenna.

klc

Is it Zirchrom encrusted??
frank zappa

Fred

[WB2EMS]

Is it Zirchrom encrusted??

Yes! And 'Made in Montana'   

[DMOD]

I wondered where my missing bedsprings went to! 

Phil - AC0OB