Anybody using any of the Flex 6000 series on AM?

[WB2EMS]

Getting closer to replacing some of the blowed up radio gear from the lightning strike. Considering the new Flex'n as well as the Anan breed. Looking around the web, I'm not seeing a lot of comment on how well the new hardware and more importantly the new software works on AM. I know that some of the AM improvements came into PowerSDR pretty late in the game. One reference I found for the SmartSDR radios indicated that they have some issues in AM demodulation - they are keying the AGC off the carrier and not the sidebands and it makes for distortion (it is said) on stations with strong carriers but lower modulation.

I'm looking for real world experience transmitting and receiving AM on the Flex 6300, 6500 or 6700. Or what you have heard them sound like on the air. Anybody got one? Or heard one? I hear great things about the Anan and PureSignal, but relative crickets on the flex 6000's.

[Steve - K4HX]

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=27012.0

[WA2SQQ]

I have a 6500, and I LOVE IT! You can make it as wide as a barn door and the synchronous AM capability sounds great. I use a Heil PR-40, and mostly the Flex's internal EQ. I drive an ACOM 1000 which is rated at 1300W out continuous. I tried an experiment that's been working out just fine.

I adjust the 6500 to give me ~250W of carrier out of the ACOM 1000, about 47W. This give me the 1KW (4 x 250W). Next, I decrease the "AM CARRIER" level on the Flex to decrease the carrier to ~ 125W, effectively now an 8:1 ratio. Still getting the full output on peaks and I've not had any problems with either older or newer receivers properly receiving the signal. End result is amp runs much cooler. Can you get on the air, wanna hear it?

[WB2EMS]

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=27012.0

Nothing related to the Flex 6000 in that thread. Lots of other good data, but I'm looking for 6000 specific data.

Thanks anyway.

[VE3ELQ]

I adjust the 6500 to give me ~250W of carrier out of the ACOM 1000, about 47W. This give me the 1KW (4 x 250W). Next, I decrease the "AM CARRIER" level on the Flex to decrease the carrier to ~ 125W, effectively now an 8:1 ratio. Still getting the full output on peaks and I've not had any problems with either older or newer receivers properly receiving the signal. End result is amp runs much cooler. Can you get on the air, wanna hear it?

My friend in upstate NY runs a Flex 6500 and does the same thing for AM, about 75% carrier level and it has lots of punch and sounds great.
I'm an ANAN 10E user and also run 75% carrier ratio for AM driving a homebrew FET amp to 1KW PEP with a carrier at about 180w.  It also works great on TX and the sync detector on AM is superb.  
Either brand will do well for you on AM IMHO.

73s  Nigel

[WB2EMS]

I have a 6500, and I LOVE IT!

That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. I had read a thread on the flex site about AM receive distortion, related to an oversight in the software related to the AGC loop. But I don't know how big an issue it is. Do you hear it in your operations? How does AM operation (and other operation) compare to the earlier flexes, if you have been a previous user? I've been trying to figure out what features might be missing in the new versions that we were used to in the older models. I know the ESC diversity mode isn't in there yet, so no noise nulling or beam forming.

Doing that carrier trick sounds interesting. I would like to hear it sometime. I can receive pretty well with some of my qrp gear that wasn't fried, and hopefully in a day or so will be able to get back on the air a bit. 75 meters would probably work between us.  I hear the guys on 3873 fine up here.

[Steve - K4HX]

Doesn't the 6000 series run PoweSDR?

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=27012.0

Nothing related to the Flex 6000 in that thread. Lots of other good data, but I'm looking for 6000 specific data.

Thanks anyway.

[Steve - K4HX]

I'll answer my own question. Looks like the 6000 series use SmartSDR software.

[WB2EMS]

Yeah Steve - the new ones use different software, SmartSDR, and talking with Tim at Flex, it's new from the ground up, so a lot of stuff that was worked out in the PowerSDR code didn't just port over, they had to start from scratch because of the hardware differences and different approaches to where the processing will be done. That has resulted in not moving a pretty mature product over from PowerSDR to SmartSDR, but rather a new ground up effort and a necessary prioritization in what they get functional first. Of course they know a lot from their previous efforts, so the amount of development isn't the same as the original - they know general ways of doing things and what kinds of things the hardware is capable of. But they've been working on the software for two years and it doesn't have some of the capabilities of the mature PowerSDR. What and where the differences are is what I'm trying to suss out. There's no documentation about what exists in PowerSDR that isn't yet implemented in SmartSDR, and while there was a 'roadmap' for SmartSDR development, it's two years old and outdated and there isn't a new one for the current time frame. A lot of the development is being driven by bleeding edge users - contesters, dx'ers, etc. AM aficionados are not so high up the list, but based on what they delivered in PowerSDR I think they will eventually deliver well, and it sounds like SQQ is pretty happy with where it is now.

I think I'm going to have to work a few on the air and maybe sit in front of one for a while to decide whether it makes sense for me. But any info from people who have been running them would be much appreciated.

Thanks for trying to point me in the right direction with that other thread. I'd been in and out of that one and following it for the developments in PowerSDR, but the new Flexes are a different breed.

 

[WD5JKO]

This thread is worth a read, as it discusses where Flex is at with SmartSDR versus what is happening right now with PowerSDR. Gerald K5SDR chimes in with his take.

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/powersdr-2-7-2-ke9ns-revision-t4

The outcome is uncertain, at least to me. I drive by Flex headquarters every day, and hope that the big beam antenna on the roof never goes away.

Jim
Wd5JKO

[WO4K]

I want to chime in with my opinion, based on nothing more than my experience LISTENING to NZ1Q on my R390A and K3. Ed operates a Flex 6500. We are regulars on the Sunday morning Florida AM group. NZ1Q has consistently great AM audio. We are approximately 120 miles apart (St. Pete and Cape Coral). Ed's audio is darn near broadcast quality. It's that good. Hands down one of the best AM stations I have heard.

Frank
WO4K

[WB2EMS]

Wow, that thread was .... lively.     It does sound like not everyone is totally happy with the current state of SmartSDR. I didn't realize that the KE9NS development of PowerSDR was being supported by Flex. That speaks well of them I think.

 Sounds like I'm going to have to get in front of one of these new ones somehow to figure out whether the software is developed enough to make me satisfied. I'd also like to get in front of one of the Anan's.   

Franks, thanks for the feedback on listening to the 6500. Sounds like the transmit side might be in a little better shape than the receive side at this point. Likely that receive fix will be in a bug fix release before too long since they know what the issue is.

[WA2SQQ]

I have a 6500, and I LOVE IT!

That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. I had read a thread on the flex site about AM receive distortion, related to an oversight in the software related to the AGC loop. But I don't know how big an issue it is. Do you hear it in your operations? How does AM operation (and other operation) compare to the earlier flexes, 

I think you are referring to the Flex 5000, which I had. AM always sounded a bit "raspy" to me. The 6500's AM receive audio, especially in the synchronous mode, sound incredibly clean. Send me an e-mail and I can send you my #. I'd be happy to coordinate a sked so you can hear my 6500.

[WA2SQQ]

While the Flex 5000 was an excellent radio, from my personal experience, there were times when you could have problems with RF getting into the Firewire interface - especially if you are running some power. My good friend Dave, WO2X, actually sold a 5000 because he just could not get rid of all the RF that caused some audio distortion. Dave made me a great deal on his 6500 when he upgraded to the 6700. The 6xxx series uses an IP interface that is so much better and more adaptive to remote operation. I had considered the Anan, but quickly realized that Flex was a better choice "if" you wanted to buy a radio to enjoy using it. Anan had so many updates that most people I spoke with devoted more time to updating it than talking on it. K3WKM also realized this and sold the Anan for a 6500. However, both are excellent radios.

Having upgraded from a 5000 to a 6500, I'm not one bit dissatisfied. Flex's support has been nothing short of 1st rate. My 6500 did go back to them one time and I had it back within 10 days, including shipping. Regarding the updates to SmartSDR, some people feel they aren't coming fast enough. Each update has been solid, so I think the extra testing Flex is doing is worth the extra wait.

[WB2EMS]

I think you are referring to the Flex 5000, which I had. AM always sounded a bit "raspy" to me.

No, I was referring to this thread.

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/am-demodulation-quality-flex-6000-vs-others

Tim says it was entered as a bug a year ago and a fix should be working it's way through the system. I don't know if it's really a noticeable issue or a non-issue.

 I haven't actually heard a 6000 yet, though I would like to work you some time for some comparisons.

I was totally happy with the 5000 performance on AM, so if the 6000 series are as good or better, that's most of my concern.

I hear you on the updates and new software all the time issue. But OTOH, their development is moving along quite a bit faster than the Flex stuff. So I guess you pays your money and makes your choices.   

[WA2SQQ]

My understanding, which might be wrong, is that Anan's software is written and developed by a team volunteers. Many of us have gotten involved in such projects until other responsibilities dictate how you spend your time. Loosing a key member of  the team can really slow down the development. Also, having their "mother ship" in India just adds a certain amount of uncertainty about what happens when my radio stops working.

Flex, on the other hand, has paid employees who are working on it as a paid employee. Much of Flex's technology originates from the products they've been selling the government for some time. In my mind they were a more stable investment.

[n1eu]

I run an ANAN-100D and Flex 6500 on AM.  They're both superb AM rigs, and that's what's important.  My sense is that the general opinion "out there" is that the ANAN might have slightly better rx/tx audio, but who knows?  PowerSDR does expose a bunch more control over rx/tx parameters to the user than SmartSDR.

I have a different take on the software development issue.  Flex's pace of development is slow, hamstrung by their engineering decision to do all dsp processing in the FPGA.  OpenHPSDR/ANAN does the dsp processing on the pc and their pace of development is fast.  They've got adaptive pre-distortion, Simon Brown will be releasing his stunning SDR Console for the ANAN later this year along with the new OpenHPSDR gigabit/DFC firmware/software, and there's an upcoming release (within 1-2 months) of PowerSDR that's going to bring the rx/tx latency of the ANAN down to the 20msec range (Flex is stuck in the 150msec range).

73, Barry N1EU

[flintstone mop]

Flexn is the more robust radio on the market.. Not so much load on the 'puter.

Good stuff...lottsa $$$ but isn't that the way we are heading these dayzzz??

Hams are fat cats

[n1eu]

Flexn is the more robust radio on the market.. Not so much load on the 'puter.

My ANAN puts a 15% load on my 3GHz i5 computer.  Big deal.

[flintstone mop]

Flexn is the more robust radio on the market.. Not so much load on the 'puter.

My ANAN puts a 15% load on my 3GHz i5 computer.  Big deal.

Not everyone in Hamdom has such a nice computer....Probably some dinosaurs out there still in use.
 

[Steve - K4HX]

If you are a dinosaur, you're likely not using an SDR or the 6000 series Flex.

[flintstone mop]

If you are a dinosaur, you're likely not using an SDR or the 6000 series Flex.

HA! I'm broke, man. I do not have kilobux for this stuff any more. My TS 850S TX audio sounds just as good as any SDR out there. Good compliments using careful EQ and processing and plain ole Heil Gold Line microphone.

[Steve - K4HX]

Sounds like you are set!

[W3RSW]

I second that Fred.
Being able to voice your dulcet tones over the air in good health is priceless!

 

[W1TAV]

Kevin, I just noticed this thread. I have been running the Flex 6300 from the the time it was introduced. I would not hesitate to offer this up as a viable AM station.  I run mine today into an ALS-600 at about 60% carrier for 125 watts and 140+ positive peaks. I was doing about the same with a single  3-500Z.  I still use by Johnson and Collins stations, however the 6300 is the go-to rig for receiving and most the time for transmitting (tied with the K7DYY)