EDR's Coming to a Car Near You

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Clearly LURD is dealing with inferior aliens. The ones I deal with merely think they want my liver and it's gone. Or it could have been the beer. Whatever.....

[K1JJ]

Clearly LURD is dealing with inferior aliens. The ones I deal with merely think they want my liver and it's gone. Or it could have been the beer. Whatever.....

Heck, the aliens I deal with (on a regular basis I might add) just push the replicator button and out pops as many livers as you need.

T

[LURD]

Hello Everyone,
     Yes, I know that there are much more advanced beings out there, BUT please understand that I am dealing with the Martians.
     You know, the little green ones, that leak their yellow pus all over the place.

Best Regards,

LURD

[N3DRB The Derb]

Just get it over with and implant a chip in everyone's head

I got mine! You rubes really didnt believe all this cancer stuff, did you?

wait a minute.....recieving  command from master control....... KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL eat brains KILL KILL KILL yummy brains snorf bite

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

ROTFLMAO!!!

[WA1GFZ]

Bob,
Too bad you couldn't make it over a couple weeks ago. Bob and i would have filled you with beer to kill the pain.
BTW. good insurance just means more people get to test you running the bill even higher before you get what you need.
I remember when I blew out my back and went directly to the man. I called my insurance and told them I wasn't going to waste their money playing games.
I bet it would be a problem doing that today.

[Carl WA1KPD]

Another Article on the OP

Copley News Service

August 24, 2006 Thursday  12:17 PM EST

Auto black boxes infringe on driver privacy

BYLINE: The Detroit News

SECTION: DAILY EDITORIALS

LENGTH: 395 words

Cars and trucks are safer today than ever before and that's been achieved without the use of black box technology that tracks speed, seat belt use and braking habits, among other things.
It should stay that way.
Black boxes, also known as event data recorders, serve a legitimate purpose when installed on vehicles that ferry the public around, such as airplanes, buses or trains. In crashes they can help determine causes, and if defects in manufacturing are at fault, they can be corrected.
But their universal use in vehicles owned and operated by private citizens presents too many privacy concerns to justify mass installation. The boxes are monitoring - not safety - devices.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has wisely stopped short of mandating that black boxes be installed in cars and trucks, but has been pushing automakers to include them on all models for the last few years. Toyota Motor Corp. installs them on all new models and General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. install them on almost all. DaimlerChrysler AG puts the boxes in about half of its cars and trucks.
On Monday, NHTSA ruled that by 2010 the devices must be made more durable and that all automakers must collect the same data. Auto manufacturers also must include notification in the owners' manual that their vehicles have black boxes. Black boxes on cars and trucks record and store information from just before an accident, during the accident and shortly after it. More than 40 items are tracked and reported.
Automakers like them for the safety related issues. Absolving them of fault in crashes certainly plays a part as well. If it's determined that driver error was involved, it would be hard for a jury to levy heavy fines on a company. The court issue is another murky matter. Clear guidance as to who can access that information has yet to be established. The use of such data must only be allowed when ordered by the court, not at the request of every trial lawyer looking to exploit the technology and information.
An opt-in system that requires consumers to actively agree to the use of such devices on their cars is a better system and it would still provide real-time crash information, but not at the expense of privacy.
Advanced safety features on cars and trucks are always good things, but surveillance devices are unnecessary.
Reprinted from The Detroit News.

[K1JJ]

"An opt-in system that requires consumers to actively agree to the use of such devices on their cars is a better system and it would still provide real-time crash information, but not at the expense of privacy."

Hmmm... I can imagine the insurance companies giving their customers an offer they can't refuse. Either opt in or your rates will be much higher. Something like the higher rates paid by new drivers who haven't had driver's ed training. I'll bet the insurance actuaries (bookies) will find people drive more conservatively when they know they are on record in case of accident. Most people have no idea of what these devices can do, so they will assume the worst and slow down.

Considering that many of the big gun car manufacturers are already installing these black boxes, it sounds like it will definately be a way of life in the future. The part about protecting the manufacturer from frivolous crash liability lawsuits is a great motivator for them.

Someday, the only cars w/o them will be older models - integrating a black box into a non-interfaced car system is impractical.  Almost like the pre-emisson reg cars driving today. Let's say that pre-2006 will be the rough line in the dirt, depending on model.

T

[KB2WIG]

                          "The use of such data must only be allowed when ordered by the court, not at the request of every trial lawyer looking to exploit the technology and information."

The word is "discovery". This is a major component of most civil lawsuits. I doubt the 'black box' information would be supressed by a court. The discovery process tends to settle lawsuits out of court, as both sides know the strength of their opponents arguments. The judicial system likes this as it keeps their calander less crouded.  For the interested the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure can be found at                                http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/#chapter_v                                          klc

[KB2WIG]

                          "The use of such data must only be allowed when ordered by the court, not at the request of every trial lawyer looking to exploit the technology and information."

The word is "discovery". This is a major component of most civil lawsuits. I doubt the 'black box' information would be supressed by a court. The discovery process tends to settle lawsuits out of court, as both sides know the strength of their opponents arguments. The judicial system likes this as it keeps their calander less crouded.  For the interested the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure can be found at                                http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/#chapter_v                                          klc

[W1FRM]

To all of those that claim they think it's OK because they
have nothing to hide:  How will you feel when video
recorders are installed in the bedrooms of every new
home?

If you then claim that you have nothing to hide, it
only confirms my suspicions about the size of your BA's.

[Carl WA1KPD]

How will you feel when video recorders are installed in the bedrooms of every new
home?

Depends, Will I be able to order copies of the videos for various people I know?

I'm not worried  about myself as NO ONE is going to want to see me in the bedroom

[W1RKW]

A couple of years ago I was listening to a talk show where the host was livid at a major rental car agency.   The agency added a fee to the guy's bill as the EDR indicated he was over the speed limit by some amount.

I can't remember the details.  Maybe someone else will.

That happened here in CT.  Don't know if it was the same case but they guy sued and I think he won.  I could be wrong though. It was a while ago.

[W1RKW]

OK, So I have a car that has one of these litte black boxes in it and it records speed.  I get pulled over for speeding and I know I was within the speed limit.  How do I use the info to prove the cops wrong. Probably wouldn't be admissable if I pulled the data out.

What happens when the diameter of the wheels are changed to bigger or smaller wheels?  The speed registered will certainly be different from the actual speed.

[W1RKW]

Just a matter of time before the "short" time interval is turned into a "long" interval to record overall driver habits.

[N8LGU]

    You've heard what happens to a frog in a pan of water on a small flame. It doesn't recognize the slow increase in temperature and eventually gets boiled.
     Some of you remind me of that frog.

[KB2WIG]

Here in NewYorkState we have an electronic toll collector called EazyPass.. You drive through the toll boot and don't have to stop... there is a record; from this they can determin speed... dont need no stinkin gps, and you provide the tracking device......     klc

[W1RKW]

I have EZPass and drive faster than the limit allows through NY and NJ and it's never been an issue.  I've heard this to be an issue but have never experienced it myself.  Can't find it on Snopes.

[KB2WIG]

Bob,
   Thats hiting it on the head....   Before the ezpzss (and still) , one got a toll ticket with the time and exit stamped on it... all anyone had to do was look at the tag at the exit and figure out your speed........  the state police never did that, and they've had 53+ years to figure it out....  but the ability is there...  As far as your speeding, well, .....   klc

[Carl WA1KPD]

I have EZPass and drive faster than the limit allows through NY and NJ and it's never been an issue.  I've heard this to be an issue but have never experienced it myself.  Can't find it on Snopes.

I got a letter form E Z Pass threatening to drop my account because I went too fast thorugh the toll.
I don't speed through them so it must have been just over the limet

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Many newer cell phones have GPS or other locating capability, most often turned on by default. Read up on E911.  Even before E911, you could be tracked within a few miles (maybe less) if your cell phone was powered on.

[KB2WIG]

Its RF...

The ezpass "speed" ticket is the speed limit going through the toll both.. usally 5 Mph...excess speed trips the camera and there you are ....You'll notice tractor trailers (almost) always go through slow... The next generation ezpass toll will allow more than 5 Mph... they are hoping of a throughput of 25 Mph or greater...

the instantaneous speed cant be taken, only the average,   So why go 80 Mph and then hang around the toll booth untill your time is O.K.??    Maybee sleep in a rest area and then hammer down ....   The classic line was asked to a guy doing 95  Mph in a rain storm 'wheres the fire??  was answered  with " Fire?  You see any f....k ladders on this car??"

[John Holotko]

Many newer cell phones have GPS or other locating capability, most often turned on by default. Read up on E911.  Even before E911, you could be tracked within a few miles (maybe less) if your cell phone was powered on.

So if you really want to confuse them swap phones with someone. They'll think you're them and they're you.

[k4kyv]

NEC launches image processing chips that automatically slam on brakes, with the first going into a Toyota Motor Corp. Lexus model to be launched this fall.

Image recognition technology is more widely known for enabling high-end surveillance cameras to pick out an individual in a crowd, but the market for them in cars is still small.

Honda Motor Co. Ltd. has also developed cars that give warning or swerve before hitting an object.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14511933/

[W1RKW]

Many newer cell phones have GPS or other locating capability, most often turned on by default. Read up on E911.  Even before E911, you could be tracked within a few miles (maybe less) if your cell phone was powered on.

That could be a minor problem is one is riding the Amtrak Acela or flying their own aircraft.