Car Talk: Radar stops cars

[K6JEK]

Some of you guys might enjoy this week's Car Talk which includes a caller whose car stalls when she drives by a radar dome (which she calls a weather golf ball) near her house.  Not just her car, others stall too.  It's in Keller, Texas. The Car Talk guys have a lot of fun with the call.

The comments on the show exhibit the usual Internet variety -- people who don't know anything delivering expert opinions  and a few posts by people who actually know what they are talking about.  Is there a psychologist among us who can explain the need to pontificate sans knowledge?

I wouldn't live in that house next to the dome.

Right now it's This Week's Show and most of the call is the featured clip

http://www.cartalk.com/

Next week you'll have to look for show 1145

Here's the commentary.  techguy19000 is the one who actually knows what he's talking about

http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/2281728/rfi-in-an-isuzu

[KC2ZFA]

>Is there a psychologist among us who can explain
>the need to pontificate sans knowledge?

I think you want to read up on the Dunning-Krueger effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

original paper here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.64.2655&rep=rep1&type=pdf

peter

[W1RKW]

Wonder if Toyota's were affected too.  Many vehicles are fly by wire.  Was her car a fly by wire type?

[K6JEK]

>Is there a psychologist among us who can explain
>the need to pontificate sans knowledge?

I think you want to read up on the Dunning-Krueger effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

original paper here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.64.2655&rep=rep1&type=pdf

peter

That explains a lot.  Thanks for the link.

Her car was an Isuzu but in the comments someone with a Ford truck spoke of the same problem.

[W7TFO]

Any high-RF environment can make cars crazy.

To wit; Atop South Mountain in Phoenix, home of some 35 Megawatts of RF.

My Benz '80 300SD wipers run intermittant-style whenever I get on the South road, key on or off.

A friend has a Volvo sedan, it can't run more than 50 Yards past the top gate before it stalls out.

A building inspector came up one time in a new Toyota Forerunner.  It had to be towed out, engine computer fried.

Carzzzz!

73DG

[W1AEX]

I think you want to read up on the Dunning-Krueger effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

I love this explanation. Thanks for posting the links. When you look around, the Dunning-Kruger effect appears to be running rampant throughout our society...

Rob W1AEX

[KC2ZFA]

I love this explanation. Thanks for posting the links. When you look around, the Dunning-Kruger effect appears to running rampant throughout our society...

It was an eye opener for me when I came across the literature on this effect some three years ago...up to that time I knew there was something like this in existence and during discussions with colleagues at work we even had identified the apparently correct quartile of test takers whose perception of ability matches the reality revealed by their actual test scores. Before finding out about this literature we had decided that what we were seeing was an aberration due to the particular work environment we are in. Boy were we wrong

[W1RKW]

I think you want to read up on the Dunning-Krueger effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

I love this explanation. Thanks for posting the links. When you look around, the Dunning-Kruger effect appears to be running rampant throughout our society...

Rob W1AEX

and CT

[KM1H]

How many watts at what frequency do I need to zap a Prius?

[Steve - K4HX]

Just tip them over like Mr. Bean did to those 3-wheeled cars.   

[W7TFO]

How many watts at what frequency do I need to zap a Prius?

The Director of Engineering for CBS Phoenix has one, it never misses a beat up there.  Pretty good RF-proof design.

73DG

[W3RSW]

Dunning, Kruger, and coauthors' latest paper on this subject comes to qualitatively similar conclusions to their original work, after making some attempt to test alternative explanations. They conclude that the root cause is that, in contrast to high performers, "poor performers do not learn from feedback suggesting a need to improve."[4]

No danger of that on this board, heh, heh.

[WA1GFZ]

Our lightning guy once went to a Auto component EMI test to see how they qualify components so easily. He brought many funny tales back. You would never want to qualify aircraft systems the same way.
Very mickey mouse test methods

[W1ATR]

How many watts at what frequency do I need to zap a Prius?

A 16 pill class c chicken blaster ought to do it.   

[K6JEK]

Our lightning guy once went to a Auto component EMI test to see how they qualify components so easily. He brought many funny tales back. You would never want to qualify aircraft systems the same way.
Very mickey mouse test methods

Really?
When I worked for Boeing a thousand years ago the tests weren't Mickey Mouse, more like Frankenstein.  I worked upstairs at the Boeing Developmental Center writing avionics software  but in the big, cavernous downstairs they had a giant shaker and zapper in a cage.  When they started the shaker our pencils would roll off the desks, coffee would build up standing waves and jump out of cups, telephones would rattle in the cradles. The zapper would produce miniature  lightening strikes. POW!  It's amazing that anything could survive the abuse let alone work.

[WA1GFZ]

I was talking about the auto industry not aircraft.
Auto industry is JS
Boeing is top notch.

[KC2ZFA]

I think the auto industry depends more on EMI/EMC simulations (at least that's what some of the computational electromagnetics engineering types have told me).

[WA1GFZ]

We have never seen any good simulation packages

[ke7trp]

ahhh.. A fellow Prius hater     I had these stickers made up.  They have been quite popular.  If anyone wants one, let me know (free).  The reaction from the owners of hybrids during morning and evening commute, is entertaining. 

C

How many watts at what frequency do I need to zap a Prius?

[Steve - K4HX]

Not a legitimate comparison. A car made by Boeing would cost 100x anything else on the market.

I was talking about the auto industry not aircraft.
Auto industry is JS
Boeing is top notch.

[WA1GFZ]

True but you don't want a plane to crash every time it gets hit by lightning or flies in front of a radar antenna.
Then if the FAA was in charge of auto quality the price would be a lot higher

[Steve - K4HX]

Exactly. Cars are rarely struck by lightning and they don't fall out of the sky either. Thus, less rigorous standards and testing are completely legitimate, not JS.

True but you don't want a plane to crash every time it gets hit by lightning or flies in front of a radar antenna.

[K6JEK]

We have never seen any good simulation packages

Have you looked at EMA Inc?  That's Rod Perala, W5CZ's, company out in Colorado. EMI simulation is their thing. I think there might be more than one EMA Inc.  Here's the one I'm talking about:

http://www.electromagneticapplications.com/

It's worth going to check them out just so you can visit Rod's Heavy Metal Museum:

http://www.w5cz.com/

[WA1GFZ]

Steve, It was interesting how the car people handle emi failures. We all had a good laugh when our guy brought back the story.

[W1ATR]

Ehh, it's only a matter of time before the big jets are all made in PRC like everything else. Then we have to start watching out for the lead based paintjob, Hello Kitty 747 plastic clones that will be raining from the skies.