audio patch panel

[W1RKW]

Need an opinion on using an audio patch panel.  Was think of building a custom one for my various audio devices  in the shack for routing  audio from rigs (xmtr and rcvr), computers, tape recorders, mixing console, etc. Wondering if I'd gain anything by doing this or would it be more trouble than what it's worth.

[W2XR]

Hi Bob,

I use three different audio patch panels in my shack. I use them to patch in or out the various audio and audio processing gear (microphone preamp, limiters, EQ, etc.) used in conjunction with my transmitter, and for connecting the low-level audio output from my receivers to a common audio amplifier.

One of these panels is the commonly available 1/4" tip-ring-sleeve patch panel. They are widely available new or used on e-Bay, etc.; I picked mine up used for $10.00 at Timonium a few years ago. The patch cables for these panels are also widely available in different lengths, colors, etc.

The other two patch panels are the older Western Electric-style, where each plug is actually two 1/4-inch tip and sleeve plugs on a common assembly. I obtained one of them as NOS from Mackay Radio here on Long Island many years ago when they when silent, the other was also NOS and was a gift from Todd, KA1KAQ. Patch cables for these are becoming quite hard to find, as this type of panel actually goes back to the 1920s, but they work well.  They were widely used in broadcast stations for years through the mid-60s, and are very old-buzzard, but look ultra-cool. They feature the small "clips" for holding slide-in cardboard or paper labels directly over the jacks, so you can neatly and easily identify each respective jack pair. Because of the relative difficulty of sourcing the patch cables for these WE-style panels, I would not recommend their use in a new installation at this point.

Some guys have reported issues with RFI when using patch panels, but I have never had any problems. If everything in and out the panel is wired with Belden 8451 shielded cable, as I did, I don't see how RFI could be an issue, unless the shielding in the patch cables themselves is of poor quality.

In summary, I think a properly installed audio patch panel for routing audio for your transmitter and receiver, etc.,  provides significant user value and flexibility when you have a lot of gear in the shack. I would have a really tough time without mine.

73,

Bruce

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

A mixer would work just as well and give you level controls to boot. And if you are a cheap-skate, just use a 66 block for your patch panel.

Need an opinion on using an audio patch panel.  Was think of building a custom one for my various audio devices  in the shack for routing  audio from rigs (xmtr and rcvr), computers, tape recorders, mixing console, etc. Wondering if I'd gain anything by doing this or would it be more trouble than what it's worth.

[k4kyv]

The other two patch panels are the older Western Electric-style, where each plug is actually two 1/4-inch tip and sleeve plugs on a common assembly. I obtained one of them as NOS from Mackay Radio here on Long Island many years ago when they when silent, the other was also NOS and was a gift from Todd, KA1KAQ. Patch cables for these are becoming quite hard to find, as this type of panel actually goes back to the 1920s, but they work well.  They were widely used in broadcast stations for years through the mid-60s, and are very old-buzzard, but look ultra-cool. They feature the small "clips" for holding slide-in cardboard or paper labels directly over the jacks, so you can neatly and easily identify each respective jack pair. Because of the relative difficulty of sourcing the patch cables for these WE-style panels, I would not recommend their use in a new installation at this point.

Some guys have reported issues with RFI when using patch panels, but I have never had any problems. If everything in and out the panel is wired with Belden 8451 shielded cable, as I did, I don't see how RFI could be an issue, unless the shielding in the patch cables themselves is of poor quality.

The shielding on those old Western Electric style patch cables is not of poor quality; it is non-existent.  I use two bays of those in my audio rack here, and a few years ago attempted to modify a patch cord for a special project, and that's when I discovered that the pair of conductors was unshielded.They reject rf and hum pickup strictly from the characteristic of being a balanced line.

My audio stuff is all interconnected using 500/600Ω balanced audio lines, and I have never had a problem with RF pickup from those unshielded patch cords.  I had a few on hand when I first wired up the panels, but ran across a bundle of them, n.o.s., at a hamfest a couple of years later, which was decades ago.

[Mike/W8BAC]

A patch bay is a handy way to arrange equipment in different orders and switch from rig to rig. You might be interested to know some patch bays are made with transformers at each input/output for isolation. Very helpful for complected or problem prone audio networks.

Mike

[W2XR]

The other two patch panels are the older Western Electric-style, where each plug is actually two 1/4-inch tip and sleeve plugs on a common assembly. I obtained one of them as NOS from Mackay Radio here on Long Island many years ago when they when silent, the other was also NOS and was a gift from Todd, KA1KAQ. Patch cables for these are becoming quite hard to find, as this type of panel actually goes back to the 1920s, but they work well.  They were widely used in broadcast stations for years through the mid-60s, and are very old-buzzard, but look ultra-cool. They feature the small "clips" for holding slide-in cardboard or paper labels directly over the jacks, so you can neatly and easily identify each respective jack pair. Because of the relative difficulty of sourcing the patch cables for these WE-style panels, I would not recommend their use in a new installation at this point.

Some guys have reported issues with RFI when using patch panels, but I have never had any problems. If everything in and out the panel is wired with Belden 8451 shielded cable, as I did, I don't see how RFI could be an issue, unless the shielding in the patch cables themselves is of poor quality.

The shielding on those old Western Electric style patch cables is not of poor quality; it is non-existent.  I use two bays of those in my audio rack here, and a few years ago attempted to modify a patch cord for a special project, and that's when I discovered that the pair of conductors was unshielded.They reject rf and hum pickup strictly from the characteristic of being a balanced line.

My audio stuff is all interconnected using 500/600Ω balanced audio lines, and I have never had a problem with RF pickup from those unshielded patch cords.  I had a few on hand when I first wired up the panels, but ran across a bundle of them, n.o.s., at a hamfest a couple of years later, which was decades ago.

Don,

I think it depends upon the manufacturer of the WE-style patch cables.

The ones I acquired many years ago with the WE patch bay from Mackay Radio were NOS/NIB and were made by Trimm. They are all shielded with very dense woven copper braid.

Other suppliers may not have been as thorough as Trimm in this regard.

73,

Bruce

[KB2WIG]

 " Other suppliers may not have been as thorough as Trimm in this regard. "

So, I guess the others don't make the cut?


klc

[k4kyv]

As long as you keep the lines balanced and avoid ground loops, you shouldn't have a problem.  Probably one reason they are not shielded is to prevent the kind of ground loops you can generate by grounding the shield on a cable at both ends.

You might have a problem if you tried using them at extremely low levels like patching microphones to the input of the first pre-amp.  But they were never intended for that.  They are used to interconnect various pieces of audio equipment in the audio chain, which usually operate at higher "line level".

[Ian VK3KRI]

The shielding on those old Western Electric style patch cables is not of poor quality; it is non-existent.  I use two bays of those in my audio rack here, and a few years ago attempted to modify a patch cord for a special project, and that's when I discovered that the pair of conductors was unshielded.They reject rf and hum pickup strictly from the characteristic of being a balanced line.

I'll come clean and say I use a similar , but VK origin, dual  tip/sleeve patchpanel, but use it (GASP!!) unbalanced.  I have in/out for computer audio, eq compressors audio Amp, mic preamp outs, etc  all patched through it.  I originally wired it up decades ago and I wouldn't be without it.  I also have a single strip set up as several commons so I can split audio to several places.
If you like playing around with different gear, or mixing and matching equipment for a particular application  use a patch panel. If you cable up one set of gear and leave it be, its probably a waste of time and adds the possibility of more problems due to more leads.
                                                                                              Ian VK3KRI

[W1RKW]

Thanks for the  input everyone.

Ian, I too have a mixture of balanced and unbalanced devices.  I'm thinking of converting the unbalanced to balanced right at the source to minimize RF infiltration. For some reason my current setup didn't seem to present a problem but now it is.  I have an RF in the audio problem right now.  Haven't had the time to track it down but I suspect it to be an RF cable rather than an audio cable. Found an issue with my feedline and I'm sure there are other problems in the RF chain.  It hasn't been maintained to well. But also intend to minimize anything at this point to bullet proof the system. We'll see.