160 Meters

[flintstone mop]

Hi Jack
The SWR on my MFJ 259 keeps changing, like it's a bad connection. It will jump up to 3:1 and then down, wind aggravates it and when it's damp. I re-soldered the feedpoint with a real hot iron and soldering paste to get a good flow. When I put power to it and modulate the TX, I can see the wattmeter shifting around. Normally I do not see meter movement during modulation. On a Ranger or other low power class of TX, yes I'll see the meter move, but not on a B'cast TX. I can check my tuner connections, I guess. Nothing I do banging on the tuner assy gets this problem to reveal itself.
The 450 ohm stuff is 14G stranded and I see the bare wire working its way through the insulation. Heat? Ant is 70 feet high and 3 amps of current at 375W.

The shotgun effect with "True Ladder Line" will solve the mystery. It's 600ohm feedline and antenna wire. All one piece of wire. Feedline turns into antenna no transistion from 450 ohm ladder to ant wire.

Fred

[K5UJ]

Fred,  by all means try the W7FG line.   That's what I use.   Ur problem may be a few things (rule 1 troubleshooting in the real world--there can be more than one thing wrong at a time unlike the tests in tech school hi hi ):  Wind may be blowing not just the feedline but also the antenna and stuff like trees etc. near or touching it?  Perhaps splices or metal fatigue?   I have seen the same thing on windy days and nights here the vwsr jumps around.  If you are using an unbalanced tuner that may be exacerbating the effect.  The MFJ analyzer is also very sensitive.  I get false readings in some situations due to antenna interaction because essentially I have too many antennas in too small a space. It has also been affected by strong fields like power line arcs and ground loops.  None of this is ur problem but just to point out that the MFJ is sensitive and can exaggerate vswr under certain circumstances.  I'd try tx a low power carrier like 5 to 10 w. and look at reflected power at the tuner if you have a fwd/reflect. watt meter there to read it and see if it squares whith the mfj.  I hate to plug the matchbox and the Famous Tuner again but the link coupling calmed down the mfj analyzer on the unbal. input by isolating it from common mode junk coming in and affecting the analyzer.   On a real windy night some vswr creep is probably okay like jumps from 1:1 up to 1.3 or even 1.5:1 but 3:1 makes me think something not right.

73

Rob

[W3GMS]

A bunch of us are now operating on 1.885.  W2ZM, WA3KLR, W1VD, W2DTC and W3GMS.  Static is a bit high but signals are good.
Joe, W3GMS
 

[k4kyv]

(rule 1 troubleshooting in the real world--there can be more than one thing wrong at a time unlike the tests in tech school hi hi

Rarely will it be a textbook problem with a standard straightforward solution and chances are it will be intermittent.

My favourite example is the buffer stage that self-oscillated on 160m, generating an almost crystal stable pure carrier, but nothing was turned on but the filaments and power was completely removed from the plate transformer.

Checked the lightning map and to-night's QRN is coming from T-storms out in the Atlantic, a couple hundred miles east of the Chesapeake Bay area.

[W3GMS]

Don,
It was nice working you tonight on 160.  QRN was tuff but it was mostly good copy.  I am still on with ZM, VD, KLR and DTC. 
Joe

[K9ACT]

Hi Jack
The SWR on my MFJ 259 keeps changing, like it's a bad connection.

Aside from the melting ladder line, all the other problems you mention usually turn out to be HF connectors suffering from Chinese Junk Syndrome around here.  I found another one today that has been driving me nuts for months but I finally nailed it.

Poking a scribe into the female part of the center conductor on one closed it up enough to make a solid connection.  Actually I poked it between the insulator and the female contact.

I just got my new MFJ259B today and I found several cables that will not thread on to the input connector of the 259.  They just sort of ride up the thread and then spin without ever getting tight.

The Chinese don't seem to think cutting real threads is worth the trouble so they just die cast them with lots of slop and wish them luck.

 js

[WA1GFZ]

I don't waste my time with a connector unless it has a mil number on it and a real name on it. The only interface to a pl259 for me is an adapter to N or BNC if I don't replace it. 

[flintstone mop]

Hi Jack
The SWR on my MFJ 259 keeps changing, like it's a bad connection.

Aside from the melting ladder line, all the other problems you mention usually turn out to be HF connectors suffering from Chinese Junk Syndrome around here.  I found another one today that has been driving me nuts for months but I finally nailed it.

Poking a scribe into the female part of the center conductor on one closed it up enough to make a solid connection.  Actually I poked it between the insulator and the female contact.

I just got my new MFJ259B today and I found several cables that will not thread on to the input connector of the 259.  They just sort of ride up the thread and then spin without ever getting tight.

The Chinese don't seem to think cutting real threads is worth the trouble so they just die cast them with lots of slop and wish them luck.

 js

Jack, We're (USA) is getting beat to death with this SHI$ from China. Very low grade everything that comes out of there. And they got us by the BALL$ financially.

Fred

[N3DRB The Derb]

my favorite hamfest hobby is rooting thru the dollar boxes looking for silver plated coax stuff. if it's N, BNC, or a BNC F to UHF adaptor fer a buck it's mine. Really dig em when they R  in the bags.   I keep dreaming one day I'll find a stash of Bird QC connectors.

Then there's the deals when you find the silver and it's installed on RG-400 or RG 142 coax in nice sized jumpers ready to rock. I've picked several N male to N male for 2 bucks.

Meanwhile, inside the building the hams are buying gray and clear chinese crap for 10X the price.

[K9ACT]

my favorite hamfest hobby is rooting thru the dollar boxes looking for silver plated coax stuff. if it's N, BNC, or a BNC F to UHF adaptor fer a buck it's mine.

Good idea.  Just insisting on a name brand isn't much good as they are all made in China.

BTW, I couldn't resist clicking on your video link hoping to see what a "Black James Bond" looks like.

Now I can sleep again at night knowing that it looks like a Bird meter.

What on earth is that all about?  Talent that expensive these days?

js

[K5UJ]

Derb, you and i both.  I love finding those bins with the used silver plated adapters. 

Jack,  has the 8X come in yet?  How's the dipole?  How high up?

I got a portable sw rx on eBay--when it arrives I'll be able to listen to the NoonTime Forum on my lunch hour    Beats the heck out of regular broadcast radio.

Rob

[K9ACT]

Jack,  has the 8X come in yet?  How's the dipole?  How high up?

A whopping 25 ft so far.  Interestingly, KYV still likes the vertical better.  I have to unplug the garage door opener when in QSO with him.

Got a question for the antenna ghurus:

My analyzer says the is R=35 but all the charts I have seen, fall off the edge below 1/8th wave and the simulator I am using says it's about 5 ohms.

Can someone tell a bit more precisely what it would be?

Assuming it is 12.5 for discussion, would be be a good idea to make a 4:1 transformer at the feedpoint?

This is a lot easier than getting it up another 50 feet.

js

[N3DRB The Derb]

jack,

sometimes the CB side of me comes out to play. I had a lot of fun on the CB. I consider myself a cb'er that the stodgy old farts couldn't keep out of their magical kingdom - and I got there the old fashioned way, 13 wpm, the "hard" old written advanced test and all.

I am pretty selective about who I bring the act out for on the air - and it's just a act, like a character is to an actor. but on my youtube channel, I dont worry about such things. Just something about running a lin -yar makes me wanna hollar and shout. 

[K5UJ]

jack,

sometimes the CB side of me comes out to play. I had a lot of fun on the CB. I consider myself a cb'er that the stodgy old farts couldn't keep out of their magical kingdom - and I got there the old fashioned way, 13 wpm, the "hard" old written advanced test and all.

I am pretty selective about who I bring the act out for on the air - and it's just a act, like a character is to an actor. but on my youtube channel, I dont worry about such things. Just something about running a lin -yar makes me wanna hollar and shout. 

I got a leenyar so maybe I should hollar and shout too    Jack you can match the dipole but it would be much better if it were up another 25 feet (or more).   It its current height you are going to have a lot of ground loss.  QST has an article in December issue about how to put a 43 foot aluminum tube on 160 m.     This is what, a 30 degree vertical on 160?   the F/P Z probably around 5 ohms.   And the photo of the feedpoint doesn't show any radials or maybe two     With my noise level I'll never hear anyone with one of those antennas on 160.  Anyway Jack,

Grundig YB400  portable plastic rx news:  I got the Grundig I bought on eBay today.  I had to fix an intermittent problem with the telescoping antenna but I'm going to take it to work tomorrow and try to hear the NoonTime Forum with it.

DX reports:
Tonight, while sitting in the living room I heard Don K4KYV on 1885 with it using the 3 foot telescoping whip antenna on it. 

Outside walking heard Tim WA1HLR on 3880 running his Junkston 600 and talking to someone.   Both guys were working stations I couldn't hear with it. 

It picks up the RFI noise outside that I bought it to detect, but it seems to be conducted via power lines and not just sprayed out into the aether (buzzard term). 

Unrelated note, the same issue of QST has a review of a new Ten Tec RF speech processor.  The author says it's good for AM.  I know of absolutely no AMer using an RF level processor on AM.  I don't know how they come up with this stuff.

73

Rob
K5UJ 

[K9ACT]

Outside walking heard Tim WA1HLR on 3880 running his Junkston 600 and talking to someone.   Both guys were working stations I couldn't hear with it. 

I heard Tim talking to someone and spent 15 minutes trying to break in but they never took a breath.  Seems like one would key down before the other would key up and there was no way a weak station could get in.

js

 

[K5UJ]

Outside walking heard Tim WA1HLR on 3880 running his Junkston 600 and talking to someone.   Both guys were working stations I couldn't hear with it. 

I heard Tim talking to someone and spent 15 minutes trying to break in but they never took a breath.  Seems like one would key down before the other would key up and there was no way a weak station could get in.

js

Jack, I tried listening to the NoonTime Forum at work today.  I had to go outside because it turns out the building I'm in which is a massive steel reinforced concrete office building acted like a giant Faraday cage but once I walked outside I could hear one of the guys then I had a pretty good copy on you returning and bringing in WA9CGZ.   It was raining so I didn't stand around out there very long.  The weird thing is that I seemed to hear another QSO or something under everyone like there was this doubling going on.  Never heard that before so it might have been the Grundig acting weird.

73

Rob
K5UJ

[k4kyv]

I heard Tim and the other station up about 1892 kHz.  I didn't try to call them since the other station was very weak and there was some slopbucket just QRM below them, and another AM QSO on 1880.  Recently, I have been trying to operate up a little higher, about 1887 when the other QSO is on, since 5 kHz is marginal separation at best between two AM QSO's.  We often run into the same problem on 75m with one station on 3885 and another on 3880.

[K9ACT]

The weird thing is that I seemed to hear another QSO or something under everyone like there was this doubling going on.  Never heard that before so it might have been the Grundig acting weird.

Actually, what you were hearing  is a slop bucket net that  starts 15 minutes after the hour and just plows away in spite of the fact that we have been there for 15 minutes.  They are on exactly the same frequency so our carriers demodulate them and they sound like AM.  They are out west quite a ways so they don't really bother us, especially those with SDR's.  We just listen to the upper side band.  That is one of the great advantages of AM, we have two side bands and they only have one... duh!

[K9ACT]

Recently, I have been trying to operate up a little higher, about 1887 when the other QSO is on, since 5 kHz is marginal separation at best between two AM QSO's.  We often run into the same problem on 75m with one station on 3885 and another on 3880.

I was very disappointed to learn that it is frequently harder to find an AM slot on 160 than on 75.

Although not absolute, there is a certain amount of "respect" for the AM window and at least in the middle of it, crowding by buckets is the exception rather than the rule.

On 160, they just fire up 2 kc away from an AM station and think they are doing the right thing and sometimes that are wall to wall, 2kc apart.

js

[Jim, W5JO]

On 160, they just fire up 2 kc away from an AM station and think they are doing the right thing and sometimes that are wall to wall, 2kc apart.

js

You have just made the point that there are disrespectful people on all bands, even the "gentleman's band"  Sad

[k4kyv]

On 160, they just fire up 2 kc away from an AM station

And then proceed to piss 'n moan about the "splatter" from the AM station's sideband products and the squeal from the AM carrier.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

You have just made the point that there are disrespectful people on all bands, even the "gentleman's band"  Sad

LOL. The Gentlemen's Band has always been a misnomer. Read about the crazy stuff that went on in the pre-WWII era on 160 meters. After WWII, there was so little activity, there was no reason to butt heads or have many problems. So, the bogus title for the band was born.

But in reality, it' just a set of frequencies, like any other band. It has no personality or magical spells that turns one into a gentlemen once you transmit on it. Neither does it cause one to become boring and make long transmissions, even though I hear people claim that's why they don't operate on 160 - it's too boring. It's whatever you choose to make it. <Sigh>

[k4kyv]

The Gentlemen's Band has always been a misnomer. Read about the crazy stuff that went on in the pre-WWII era on 160 meters. After WWII, there was so little activity, there was no reason to butt heads or have many problems. So, the bogus title for the band was born.

But in reality, it' just a set of frequencies, like any other band. It has no personality or magical spells that turns one into a gentlemen once you transmit on it. Neither does it cause one to become boring and make long transmissions, even though I hear people claim that's why they don't operate on 160 - it's too boring. It's whatever you choose to make it. <Sigh>

When the band  was finally re-opened after WW2 (after much debate whether any of the band should be returned to hams), there were so many restrictions on power and frequencies, plus all the LORAN QRM, plus the difficulty in putting up effective antennas, that it became sort of the "forgotten band".  Remember those ads in the magazines from the 60's for "all band" 80-10m rigs?  It became a special interest band, populated by somewhat of an elite group.  Much of the nonsense that took place on the other bands was absent there - mainly because the perpetrators of the nonsense didn't want to bother putting up a 250' long dipole to run 25 watts at night in a 25 kHz segment of frequencies and operate with the sound of a buzzsaw in the background.

We still don't have all the band back.  Before WW2, it ran from 1715 to 2000 kHz, later changed to 1750-2050, although hams didn't have much if any time to enjoy the 300 kHz wide band before the Japanese attack and shutdown of amateur radio for the duration.

[K5UJ]

Steve and Don, right.  All the commercial rigs in the 60s and 70s were 10-80 m. so getting on 160 took a little bit of ingenuity in either doing a mod or fixing up an older rig so appliance ops were not to be found on 160.  I can't remember when manufacturers started including 160, sometime in the 1980s?  It must have been when I was inactive.   Another thing behind the "gentlemen's band" idea is I think the notion that you have to space for an antenna, i.e. you have to be a property owner usually which conjures the image of the gentleman farmer in the country.  I think it was S.J. Perelman who once said a gentleman farmer is "a fool and his wife in the middle of 50 acres of brambles who should have known better and stayed in the city."  Anyway, if I can get on 160 on a 50 x 100 foot lot with an inverted L, almost anyone can so that shoots down the estate in the country theory 


Rob
K5UJ

[KB2WIG]

  Another thing behind the "gentlemen's band" idea is I think the notion that you have to space for an antenna, i.e. you have to be a property owner usually which conjures the image of the gentleman farmer in the country.  I think it was S.J. Perelman who once said a gentleman farmer is "a fool and his wife in the middle of 50 acres of brambles who should have known better and stayed in the city."  Anyway, if I can get on 160 on a 50 x 100 foot lot with an inverted L, almost anyone can so that shoots down the estate in the country theory  


Rob
K5UJ

Farm livin' is the life for me.
Land spreadin' out so far and wide.
Keep Manhattan Saint Charles, just give me that countryside.