The AM Forum

I just finished the  HB supply for my ART-13 project.
The filament pins in the tube socket for the 813 are sizzling and not making good contact.
All of the pins on the 811A's and the 813 are black from oxidation.
The 1625's don't light and I checked the 24 volts going to the one and it was there.
the series connection between the two is good and so is the ground connection.
The pins in the sockets on the 1625's have lost their grip and are not making contact.
First of all, what can be used to clean the sockets?
How can I tighten up the pins on the 1625's?
Thanks,
Don W9BHI

Are you sure all the tubes are fully seated in the sockets? I know how it sounds, but believe me, it CAN happen with the ART-13's. The rearmost 1625 grounds through the dropping resistor built to the dummy panel that covers the hole for the LFO. A small pick can be used from the topside to tension the sockets... if all else fails and be very careful, you don't want to replace those multiplier sockets because they are buried!   Been there, know it.


Good luck, Phil

Make sure the 1625's are fully seated in their socket. I thought I had a problem with loose sockets for the 1625's but I actually wasn't pushing the tube hard enough into the socket. It takes a decent amount of pressure but they will eventually fully seat in the socket and be in there quite firmly.

I cleaned the 813 and 811A sockets.
I cleaned the 1625 sockets and then realized that I wasn't seating them all the way.
It's working and putting out 120 watts carrier but poor modulation, only about 250 watts or so.
Running an amplified D-104 and still not enough audio to drive it.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Don W9BHI

Do you have the microphone type selector switch (its hidden behind the tune up chart on the upper right side of the front panel) selected to DYNAMIC vs CARBON? 

I originally ran my ART-13 with a my  good buddy amplified D10-4 (complete with an ivory backplate with the original ops "Cinnamon and Teddy Bear" handles and an eagle scrimshawed on it) and had plenty of drive with the switch at DYNAMIC.  I'm presently driving it with a Peavy cardioid dynamic into a Shure octave band EQ and feeding line level output from the EQ into the ART-13 mic jack with the switch at DYNAMIC.  Have plenty of drive to spare with that setup.  I'm thinking that if the switch is at CARBON, you will not get enough drive from the D104 , there is also the issue of hitting the D104 output with the carbon mic DC excitation voltage that can't be a good thing for it.

   D ooh!  That-ll Do it!

/Dan

 Assuming you have the mic switch selected for dynamic and the tubes are good in the speech amp there could be another issue or two.

 The speech amp is connected with the rest of the radio with a jones plug, I had to remove the speech amp and clean the jones plug contacts and exercise then. There are 2 screws on each side of the speech amp that hold it in place. I also found removing the 837 tube made it easier to pull the speech amp out without damaging something else. I also had interference issue with the tek nuts on one side and had to loosen the chassis panels so I could get more clearance.

 Another problem I had was after the radio warmed up for awhile I lost all modulation, looking at the speech amp schematic I decided to replace C203 a .5 uf electrolytic and C205 a .001 of pare capacitor, as luck would have that restored modulation.

 I'm using an amplified D-104, it works well with this radio, I get good audio reports. I also tried a T-17 microphone I use with my GRC-9 sets, modulation was not as good nor were audio reports.

 I have three of these radios, two ART-13 sets and just got an ATC set going a few months ago, I run off a DY-17A dynamotor. these are a lot of fun but a Gold Plated PITA to work on, little consideration appears to have been given to ease of repair.

That dirty leaky little C203!
Replaced it and the radio has carrier of 135 and audio peaks of 520 watts!
Great sounding audio too.
I used the Antek  toroids for the plate and screen.
I used a 27 volt 13 amp Meanwell set to 28 volts for the filaments.
I get 1250 and 385 volts under load.
I'm happy now ;D

 OK!!! Nice feeling to get one of these running again!!

   Good Job! OM,

   This is Classic, "Gold Plated PITA to work on".

73

/Dan

Here are some pictures of the power supply.
It is only 12X8X3.

Don W9BHI

Don,

Nice work on the power supply.   I also have an ART-13 project I'm gathering components for.   I have the switcher "A" supply en-route, the plate HV transformer, choke, caps, diodes etc, but have yet to order the 400V transformer.  Looking at your pics, I'm curious where you got the B+ wire and chassis connector for same.  Am I correct in presuming the HV wire has silicone insulation?

Mike
KE0ZU

/Dan

Very handsome pair of art13's you have there.  I have one here.  I'll be using the classic heavy iron approach for my PS

Al

Mike,
The wire is some 40KV stuff I have had around a while, it's not silicone insulated.
The HV connectors are Millen type.
I got them from KE9PQ.
I used the 300 volt Antek toroid but if I were to make another supply I would use the 350 volt one.
The 400 volt supply on this one wound up being 380 volts under load.
Some say that 425 to 450 is better.

Don W9BHI

Congrats! Seems like a good number of these rigs have returned to the airwaves in recent months & years. Heard a fellow yesterday on the Old Friends net down here in NC using his Navy version, the ATC. Audio was a bit restricted but strong. He was running a D-104 as well.

They are very stout set and capable of a remarkably strong signal for the expected power output. Winding up the HV does make a difference, of course.

Recently located the final connector needed to get mine lashed up with the dynamotor (I'm a glutton for punishment), just need to build the cables. Will be using it with the RAX-1 triplets ala PB4Y-2 on Mike/KC4TOS' aafradio site. He's been a HUGE help to me during the process. Need to locate the three dynamotors for the triplets(and build those cables too), then it's off to the races. Hope to get the ATC running soon.

Just curious. Fair Radio still advertises ART-13s for sale. Any opinion on the condition of these radios he sells?

PHILIP
KA4KOE

I dunno, how could you be guaranteed that everything was there and it wasn't just a parts unit?

Don W9BHI

Don,
Where did you get your 27V switching supply?

Looks great!

Joe, W3GMS

Joe,
I got it from Powergate LLC.
It is a Meanwell SE-350-27.   $45.90
27 volt @13A.
I readjusted it to 28 volts.

Thanks,
Don W9BHI

Thanks Don. 

Joe, W3GMS

 I'm running a DY-17A dynamotor to power my ART-13 sets (I have 2 ART-13's) and my latest find an ATC set. I'm using a military power supply as PP-1104 which I'm told was originally designed to charge forklift batteries. I call this supply "AMPSZILLA", it can be configured for 14 volts at 100 amps or 28 volts at 50 amps. Even with this supply the voltage really sags on start up of the dynamotor.

  I had a problem with the ATC set, K-104 would chatter on start up of the dynamotor, one end of the relay is connected to 24 volts and a ground is applied to energize, coil is a 140 ohms. I put a blocking diode in series with the 24 volt end of the coil and a 3300 uf, 50 volt rated capacitor across the coil. That stopped the chatter, neither of my ART-13 sets had this problem.

 Real radios don't just glow in the dark, they run off of dynamotors too!!

Joe,

Five bucks cheaper, and no shipping.  The usual place, item # 111013207232.

PRESENT :)

Thanks Mike! 

Don,
I am assuming that your not noticing and noise from that particular switcher when you go to receiver?   Some switchers are better than others when it comes to EMI.

Joe, W3GMS

Good luck with the PS from china.
I bought from a chinese dealer ONCE on Ebay, never again.
If there is something wrong with it or never receive it, you are screwed.
The agravation is not worth trying to save a few bucks.
My .05 (inflation)

W9BHI

Joe,
I don't have mine connected to an antenna or a receiver yet.
I am waiting for a 500Pf variable cap to adjust the loading.
There is an article on line "rebuilding the ART-13" states that the Meanwell supply is RF free but he says that the power cable from the supply to the unit should be "fully sheilded".
I guess I will find out soon enough.
Don W9BHI

Thanks Don for the reply.  Many of the switchers today are pretty quiet, so unless your using an indoor antenna you will probably be fine.  If you do have a problem, some of the Corcom 2 stage line filters when installed as close as possible to the AC input of the switcher will help.  In fact, if I had some extra time on my hands I could design a multi-output switching supply to supply all the voltages for the ART-13.  The entire supply would probably be less than 5 lbs. 

When you get it up and running with a receiver, it would be helpful to know if you hear any noise on the various bands coming from the switcher. 

Joe, GMS       

MeanWell isn't a PRC manufacturer, since when?   I've been buying PRC stuff off E-bay for a number of years with only one incident, of some wrong components being sent.   A message to the vendor, and the problem was remedied free of charge.    I'm certainly not saying DOA isn't a possibility, but its rare.   E-bay buyer protection takes care of the occasional no ship and/or bait and switch artist.   Frankly, I've had more problems with domestic suppliers.   BTW, called your vendor, no stock till mid may.

For many years I have had a 28V DC "bus" set up in the shack to run the various radios that run at that voltage - the ART-13, the command sets, and the GRC-19.   The basic circuit consists of a pair of marine deep cycle batteries seriesed up,  and floated on the output of a high current DC supply.  I'm presently using a military 80s vintage PP7333 that's rated at 60A DC continuous. 

With a full charge on the battery "flywheel", the dyno starting current surges are taken out of the them vs the supply to overcome the transient PS sag.  On the PP7333, if the battery charge is low, it's output breaker will usually trip on keying up the ART-13 on voice, or otherwise starting the DY-17A for spotting or continuous run in CW.  A fully charged healthy set of batteries eliminates the trips. I recently had one of the pair of the latest batteries I have used, a fairly new Walmart/Johnson Controls marine deep cycle battery develop a "soft short" on one cell which limited the battery output voltage to the point where the PP7333 output breaker tripped, and the K104  relay would chatter on dyno start up. 

I didn't have the original receipt for the batery, and was not certain how much prorated refund I was going to get on it.  Brought it to the local WM where I bought it.  the service sesk guy said he would try to see if thre was a way to determine the build date from the battery bar code or serial number.  I was honest with him and told him it was definitely over a year, and therefore was not going to qualify for a full refund.  He could not find out anything, but regardless, gave me a full price refund anyway, I just had to pay the replacement battery sales tax and to price differential for the new battery vs the old.  Got out of there with a fresh battery for less than 20 bucks!   WM/Johnson Controls batteries recently got pretty decent reviews in a Consumers Report battery survey.  Based on my experience, I'm going to stick with them when its time to refresh any vehicle and or radio bus batteries.

I have also noticed that I need a full charge on the batteries to keep the DC  supply  voltage high enough for the T195 auto tune circuit to retain its "memory" and cycle in a reasonable amount of time. 

I also have a real big single WM MAXX marine deep cycle battery to run a 14V bus for the various radios that run on that voltage - TCS, WS19, and GRC-9 (and also various modern radios that run on 13.8V DC) I have been using a pair of now really old Sears 10A chargers ( with added ripple filtration caps) to float it.  I should have a bigger charger to keep up with the BC-191/BD-88.  I do have a nice "AMPZILLA"  50A supply I bought from Jim W2BVM a few years ago, that could be adjusted for any voltage  up to over 28 VDC, but its OOC at the moment.  The MAXX deep cycle will run the GRC-9 DY88  quite a long time on its own in the field, especially of I turn the transmitter dyno off in receive mode, and the receiver is powered by the DY88 vibrator pack.

You should be able to load up pretty well into a typical 50 ohm unbalanced coax fed antenna without the 500 pf variable, it will make the fine tuning and loading easier but its not absolutely essential.  Ran my ART-13 for years without it.

Don,
Thanks for posting your schematic. 

I believe you said in one of the many post that you would go for the next higher voltage for the intermediate voltage.  Is the part number of that transformer AS-2T350?  Also what is written on the parts list top line(s) in the upper right corner?  It seems to be clipped off from your scan.

I like your inrush limiting on the primaries.  The last we spoke, you had not checked for EMI from the switcher.  When used in your actual station, did you notice and radiated EMI as detected by your receiver? 

Joe, GMS

Here is a partial parts list for the PS.
This should get you started.

These parts are from Mouser:
1N5408 diodes   # 512-1N5408  $0.25 ea.
Inrush lim.         # 527-CL40  #1.39 ea.
Toggle switch     #  691-2GK50-73  $6.82 ea.
56K 5W resistor  #286-56K-RC   $0.56 ea.
100 ohm 2 W resistor #594-5083NW100R0J $0.10 ea.
11 pos. term strip  #538-38780-0110  $7.23ea.
24 volt DPDT relay #563-LY2F-DC24  $6.31ea.
12x8x3 chassis  #546-1444-24 $24.00ea.

The 390Mf/450v caps are from K4POZ on QTH and they were $2.75 ea.

The Cannon U7 power plug is available from KE9PQ for $59.99ea.(OUCH!)
The HV connector is a Millen type available from KE9PQ for $23.99 a set.

The toroid transformers were from ANTEK inc.
#AS-4T500 $57.00ea.
#AS2T-300 $38.00ea.
They are out of stock on everything right now becaucse of a fire at their facility in January and will be back in business in a few weeks.

The 28 volt Mean Well switching supply is from Powergate LLC.
#SE-350-27  $45.90ea.

I did notice a very slight amount of RF interference from the switcher in the receiver but it was bareley noticable.
Sheilding the power leads may get rid of it completely but I didn't bother.

I hope this helps others to get motivated and get that ART-13
that has been sitting in the corner gathering dust on the air again.
If I can be of any assistance, just ask.

Don W9BHI

Chris

I think that's great that customer service at Wally World bent over backwards to help you out.  I think these outfits should get credit when credit is due.  Good save!

My ART13 is sitting on the work bench here waiting for a 28 volt supply.  I'm planning on putting it and the LV / HV supplies on modified furnature dollys so I can move them around easily.  Gotta  make them Rosie-proof - what a nosey kitty - like a 2 year old.

Al

Thanks Don for taking the time to document your completed project.  Reading early in the trail, I guess the only change you recommend is to use the 350V transformer rather than the 300V one. 

What bands did you check for EMI from the switcher? 

Joe, GMS

I noticed a small amount on 75 meters and a little bit stronger on 40 meters.
I think a little bit of sheilding of the 28 volt cabling would help.
My connection from the receiver to the ART-13 and antenna connections had a lot of exposed wire
and was probably picking up the interference.

The 300vac transformer gave 380vdc under load, it worked ok for me.
Others say that a little over 400 is better on the screen of the 813.
Thanks,
Don W9BHI

Since the AC input in the supply has an EMI filter already, I would probably start with with some common mode chokes on the output leads very close to the supply if the shielded cable did not solve it.  Then again, some of the new active PFC circuits on the front end of the newer supplies can generate some hash.  A sniffer probe that is very numb helps in locating which lines most of the EMI is on. 
I guess when I build mine, I will find out! 

Thanks Don,
Joe-GMS