The AM Forum

As I drove closer to home, I started seeing lots of trees laying down in the streets.  My heart sank.  I pulled into the Drive and for the first time in 10 years, Did not see the tower.

Its a total loss.  The Tower snapped all three legs clean. All three Guy ropes where snapped. These where half inch diameter ropes.  The antenna was an old Imax 2000 That I retuned for 10 meters mid band. I worked many stations on that thing on 10, 12 and 15 meters including the Azores. The main purpose of this tower was to support the west leg of the zep. 

The fence is also destroyed.  I am told there was a micro burst that was right over the hood with winds in the 100 mph range.  So strong that people could not walk or run for cover.

I called the insurance company and filed a claim on the roof, fence and tower.  I hope they cover it all.

C

Just missed the dog too!

Aw man, that really sucks Clark.

Wow !!!!!  That's a real bad scene!

What were the ropes made of?  I had a similar situation when I lived in Groton (MA).  A tornado (yes, we get a lot of them here in N.E.!) came through and snapped off a lot of trees at about the 50 foot level.

But, a 60 foot tower I had up - STAYED up because the ROPE guys kept it up there despite the raging winds.  The house sustained wind damage.

On this particular tower, the ropes came away at about a 45 degree angle, and there were 3 ropes at the top only.  The tower was not anchored to the ground except for just sitting there.  The guy ropes were the only things keeping it up.

The ropes were 1/2 inch polyethylene (NOT polypropylene) and were not new.  Polyethylene is very strong rope, and is significantly resistant to UV (I have some pieces around here that are LITERALLY 30 years old and are still perfect!).  Polyester is also quite UV resistant.

I'm just surprised that in your situation 1/2 inch ropes would break !  What do you think happened??  I would almost have expected the tower to break before the ropes.

That's most likely what saved it.

The tower looks fine and so does most of the mast.

And the dog sure looks like it hadnt budged thru it all ;D

It is hard to protect anything from a mirco-burst.

Fred

SUX. I'm glad it didn't hit your house, as I'm sure you are too. But it still sucks.

The tower is toast. The bottom edge is crushed and wavy. I think I can use it at low hight to support a small vertical for 2m or maybe 6. 

All three tower legs are snapped off at the concrete.

I used three half inch poly UV ropes to guy it. They all snapped. This thing must have waving around like a straw going down a drain.

The wire antennas are all snapped. The 2 meter/440 cushcraft is also done.  Not one antenna survived.

To top all this off, Last night about 1am we had another micro burst hit the house.  This time the thunder blew the windows out on the south side of the property.  Then, for good measure, The storm slammed golf ball hail down which screwed up the lexus in the Drive.  The winds finished off the roof. There are tiles all over the property. 

There I was holding my ears in bed with a 70lb dog shaking next to me and a cat that would claw the hell out of me and screech when the thunder hit each time.. hahaha. 


The insurance guy is comming out any time now.  I guess I will show him the rest of the damage.  Knowing my luck,  They wont cover anything.

C

Wow, that is absolutely amazing weather !!!!!!!  Is this normal (don't know anything about the weather in your area!)?

I'm surprised the trees in the area aren't leveled or at least broken off.  I know around here, that sort of thing knocks trees over - but it's so rare that when it DOES come, the damage is usually quite significant.

I would guess the homeowner's policy would cover the losses - if it doesn't, what excuse could they give?? An act of God?

Good luck with all of it.  I'm not surprised the tower is unusable.  Falls such as that usually bend them up pretty well, and the structure is also weakened.  In professional radio, you cannot get insurance on a tower that's fallen over and then put back up.

Sorry to hear about the tower, Clark.

The insurance company will probably pay off since it is a well known incident with other damage in the neighborhood. Almost without fail, after an insurance payout, most guys build a new system bigger and much better than before. They are almost thankful for the event in hindsight.

I would start designing up a stronger system and do it by the book using a pin at the base and steel guy wires, using Rohn 45. There are many used towers around these days owned by old timers just looking to have them taken down for free.

Steve (and Dave) made a good point about his tower having the base free. (Though the base should have limited sway using a pin) I know many guys have their towers in concrete, but when stressed to breaking, the pin is far superior to let the tower move (rock) rather than snap. I actually had my first 150' Rohn 45 in concrete and went thru the trouble to jack it up, cut off the base  and install a new pier pin. (While the tower was standing)  Look up the Rohn Tower design manual on line and study it fpr ideas, if you haven't already.

Anyway, think positive and in six months you will have a system that is bullet-proof and can handle X3 the load you have now. (maybe even taller)

T

The adjuster just left.  They are going to take care of everything.  The fence, The roof, windows the tower, antennas and even skim the inside of the ceiling and replaster and paint. Water came in due to the roof ripping off and damaged my ceilings.

Now I have to find a company in phx that can put the tower up.  They said they would pay for full install if I got a quote from a legitimate company that can do the job correctly to avoid this falling again. Why do this myself when they prefer to have skilled tower installers do the job?

In PHX we have monsoon storms all summer long.  They are short storms with lots of rain. This was a micro burst type storm that hit the house twice.  I hear of this happening every year but never in my area of the valley. Its almost always up north or down south.

Thank god for insurance.  Now to sit down and rest for a bit.  I have been without rest, Worrying and or working to stop leaks for 24 hours.

C

if your insurance finds out it was a JS install they may not want to do it right.

Here we go....

JS install?  It survived 10 years of az storms.  Just not 11.

C

Sounds like you're all set with the insurance company!!!  That's good.  I always wonder why I pay that $1300/year homeowner's insurance bill year after year, but when you hear of something like this happening, it definitely puts a different light on things.

It is extremely poor design to set a fixed (as opposed to crank-up or tilt-over) guyed tower in concrete.  I can't understand why most hams do it that way. I call it the "Hammy Hambone" method. The base plate/pier pin  method is a much better idea, and a lot less work to erect. No having to make absolutely sure the bottom section is plumb before dumping the concrete, and hoping the concrete doesn't somehow knock it off plumb when it fills the hole. And you don't lose the height of the bottom section that is buried in concrete. I am aware that hams have a reputation for being "cheap" (penny wise and pound foolish), but a base plate and  pier pin do not cost that much.  All towers sway and twist in the wind, and the base section rigidly set in concrete is a disaster waiting to happen.

Better still, if you are using the tower as a vertical, use a broadcast type base insulator, which is designed to act like a ball and socket joint.  A brand new one would be prohibitively expensive, but with many small Ma and Pa AM stations going dark these days, it isn't too difficult to find a used one that will fit a small tower.  I got mine back in 1980 from a BC station in Alabama.  Paid the owner $100 for it.  A few years ago I found a spare at a hamfest for $25, and the spare one was designed to fit my tower, so I wouldn't even need an adaptor plate for it.

Regarding that 100 mph wind shear, the Rohn book indicated that at this QTH, design for 85 mph winds would be sufficient.  For probably less than 50 extra bucks (a little additional concrete in the guy anchor piers and a couple of pieces of slightly heavier duty hardware) I was able to design mine for 125 mph...  Better to have it and not need it, than to need in and not have it.

That $1300 a year pays for the excuse makers.

Sorry to hear about the tower, Clark. Glad nobody was injured or killed.



What Frank is trying to say (in his own touchy-feely kinda way) is that no insurance company would ever insure a tower that was guyed with rope, and he's right about that. There are industry standards for tower construction, and none of them consider rope to be a viable guying system. These things have to take thousands of pounds of load just sitting there, nevermind when a wind storm passes through. You've been very fortunate for at least 9-1/2 years. Considering that nobody was hurt or killed, you're even luckier than you might feel right now.

So now is your opportunity to do it properly and not have to pay for it yourself. Get a tapered base and a pier pin as others have stated, pour a real base, put down some real guy anchors, and use real guy cables.

Do those simple things, and your tower will outlive almost everyone on this board. As long as your insurer is covering it, you no longer have any reason not to.

I know you probably don't want to hear any of this right now, but those are the facts.

Good luck with it, and the rest of your house repairs.

WOW...glad no one got hurt Clark!
Most likely the insurance will square you away....GL

Brent

I can't bad-mouth insurance companies.  When my daughter had her accident, our automobile carrier immediately paid out the full limit, without hedging, based on our "uninsured motorist" coverage.  When I didn't feel safe climbing onto a difficult part of  my roof to fix a few shingles myself and called our home-owners insurance company, they paid me to replace the entire asphalt shingle roof. I upped the ante and contributed about an equal amount out of my own pocket, and had a metal roof put on instead.  Not a single leak since. Shingle roofs are a PITA and CONSTANTLY need maintenance.  But I could not have afforded the new metal one all on my own.

???  I don't get it. Why would they pay you to do repairs? Were they THAT concerned about their liability if it fell?

Normally they do a house inspection every year here. One time they didn't like the shingles and were going to cancel the policy unless we got them repaired. We had to pay the full amount for repairs, of course, to get the policy renewed.

Looks like you caught them with their pants down on a policy that had a lot of time left to go, no?

T

No ham tower would have taken this micro burst.  You guys can talk about shotty installs all you want. The tower was very solid and is a free standing tower. Guy ropes are not required on this model at this level. We put them up as an added measure of safety.  If you look at the picture again, You will notice this is not Rohn tower. Its much, much stronger. It has full size supports and not bent zig zag wires supports. Cyclic 100 mph winds going in each direction is just something a tower like this cannot take.  End of story.

The insurance company so far has been good to me. I have paid them between $1000 and $1300 a year every year and never made a claim.  This was considered a disaster and claim counts are in the thousands in my area. THe hood is a flury of activity. I have been hearing chain saws all day long. Down the street is a huge Tree that was about 4ft across at the trunk, snapped like a twig. My property has pine trees and they somehow, Survived. Probably due to the huge root systems.

As of right now, Winds are up and moving the trees around and blowing crap around the yard. I really hope we dont have another storm tonight. I dont think the roof will take it.

I am now trying to figure out a way to get at least a wire up after the weather calms down. Its going to be months before any kind of work will be done. Maybe I can string a wire across the yard so I can at least enjoy some radio time.

Dont be surprised if you get a cancellation notice or your rates go way up, its the current industry scam.

I also agree on the pier pin, used them on the 90 and 120' Rohn 25 at the old place and the 180' 45G here where Im wide open in all directions and the winds sweep up the hill and start blasting the tower at the 120' level along with the straight on winds. Its why I could never keep a KLM 4el 40 together more than 18 months and scrapped the idea of the 3 el 80 KLM on a BC tower.

There was a microburst here last July. I never saw anything like it. It sounded like a freight train and the rain was horizontal.  It took down a number of huge oak trees about 250' from the house that were at least 100 years old. It was at least 90 mph for 20 seconds or so. That's when the shingles on the roof here went missing and the insurance company demanded they be replaced or no renewal.

That same day of the microburst there was a tornado a few towns over. Frank, remember Wethersfield last year?

FWIW, my antennas themselves and towers here are all designed to handle 130 mph+, but with the various loads I have on the towers now, it's less. The full-size triple 40M Yagi stack certainly is a load on the 190'er self-supporter.


Anyway, Clark, you'll be getting a nice check and it's most ham's dream to be able to design up a new system and have it professionally installed. Good luck.

T

No, I usually just did the repairs myself rather than going to the hassle of contacting the insurance co., having them do an appraisal, then finding a contractor to do the repairs, waiting for  the check from  the insurance co., then paying the contractor.  It was always easier to climb up and re-nail a couple of shingles myself.  Usually a 30-minute job. I'd spend at least that much time on the phone dealing with roofers and insurance agents.

When I decided that the blown off shingles were not in a safely accessible place, I contacted the insurance company.  The guy looked over the roof, and said, "we are going to put you on a new roof".  Maybe the fact that they hadn't had to fix any shingles  for years had something to do with it.  I was flabbergasted, but didn't ask too many questions; I gather he thought the roof was getting in bad enough shape that it would cost them more to repeatedly pay for small repairs than to re-do the whole thing once and for all.  Maybe the adjuster had just had a good bedtime experience with his wife that night.  For whatever reason, about a week later, they  sent me a check for a re-roofing job according to their appraisal, based on what they consider the going price.  It was pretty close to the estimate I got from the roofing company.  The metal roof was approximately  double the cost of the asphalt shingle job.

The way my insurance company works, They do an appraisal, send me a check for "fair market value for the job", and it's up to me to find someone to do the work for what they decide to pay.  I could have pocketed the money and JS'ed the roof job myself, and probably no-one would have ever known, at least until the next wind storm. But this was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get the metal roof I had always wanted.

Don,

OK, I see. I didn't realize there was a claim/damage involved. I thought you just called them cuz you were worried about walking on a certain part of the roof.... ;D ;D

As I said in a previous post, most times when looking back in hindsight, a damage claim usually gets resolved so that we end up with a much better replacement than before. When I was 16, I had a GTO that was sideswiped by a drunk. He took out the rear quarter panel. With the insurance money I was able to get the panel repaired and also get a rubbed out lacquer paint job on the whole car. I had to shop around, of course. It was a great experience.  I'll bet Clark ends up with something really FB.

T

...if the tower is attached to a concrete pad. Yours was just sitting on the ground. The manufacturer could not possibly have had that in mind when they published the numbers they did.

We all feel bad for you, seriously, but quite a few of us have put serious hours in on much bigger towers than yours, and know what it takes to keep them upright. We're not to blame for your tower coming down, so getting mad at us is unjustified.

You've been given plenty of good advice on keeping the next tower upright for much longer, and your insurer has agreed to pay for it. If I were you, I'd focus on that instead of trying to justify the construction of a tower that's currently laying across your driveway.

Besides, if your insurance company reads this thread, they might change their minds about covering you. Making a stink about it may come back to bite you in the ass. Jump on it before they back out! Get that check in your hand, and get the next tower erected. This one's gone, but the next one can put it to shame.

I am not sure where I confused you.  The Tower base was in concrete. The Tower legs broke off the base. The concrete is still in the ground.

Tonight, We cleaned up the rest of the mess. The Hardline is all out and coiled up.  The rest of the vertical was broken down and tossed out. The tower was pulled to the side. Three sections are good. The bottom is junk and the top is junk.  Maybe I can use it for a small 6 meter beam at 20ft.

The Zep got strung out to the fence.  Not very high. The other side is still in the tree up 50 ft.  So one side is 50 and one side is maybe 10.  To my total suprise, I am full scale into California on the globe king!  At least I can enjoy myself in the comming months of planning with some low band action. 

The plan right now is to get the TMM-541ss tower.  Its a crank over which I want and its only 41 ft tall up and 12 ft down. Add in a 5ft mast and it will be 46ft. I am plan on putting the wire up there and a small Triband beam. 

On the other side of the property I am going to install my estate sale special, a Gap Voyager vertical.  This gives me three options on some bands and two for the low bands.

C

You're right, I stand corrected. I've had a few different tower conversations this week, and my wires got crossed. My bad. Sorry about that.

I'm sure you'll take the opportunity to loft a truly manly erection.

Still glad that none of you got hurt. Good luck.

Time for a 200' LUSO crank up.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LKOjJeOsOA

Thom said:

That's easy to do when you are in a lot of 'aerial discussions.'  ;D

Its ok. We all make mistakes. 

Does anyone have any experience with the TMM 541 crank up tower? or UStower in general?   

We spent another couple hours clearing the mess up. The tower is worse then I thought.  When layed down flat on the ground, the center is off the ground about 4 to 5 inches over the span.  Each section is tweaked a little. 

The mast is out, The coax and hardline is all out.  The old antenna was trashed, The Ground radials and lines for the inverted L are all coiled up.  I was tired of walking on the Zep antenna so I walked it out and tied it to the Fence.  The other side is still in the tree. 

To my total suprise, I keyed up last night and found I was full scale in California!  The low end points near cali.  Maybe that is why?   Also the leg that is on the fence is now straight out with no turn down.  From 55ft. down to 10 on one side and 55 on the other, Seems to have little effect.  I am sure happy.  It means I can still use the radio while we fix the house and antennas.

C

Good story Don. Wow the insurance mafia did you good ;D ;D

I often wondered about metal roofs. I thought they would be less expensive than shingles? My camp has about a 33 degree pitch and snow would probably slide off a metal roof like greased snot.

Clark, sorry to hear about you damages. I know you'll put things back stronger than ever judging from how you build you ham gear ;D ;D ;D

When we added a master bedroom addition we went with a metal roof and had the existing roof replaced with matching metal at the same time.  It was slightly more expensive than shingles but not too much, around 20% increase as I recall.  The installers could have finished in one day easily if the wind had not picked up.   In good weather it goes on very quickly.  The general contractor did tear off and prep before they arrived.  It is pretty light so if you have a single layer (or two) of shingles in good shape it can go on top of the existing roof.

Snow and ice slides off very quickly.  You wouldn't want to be standing near the house when the ice starts to melt because all you hear is a sudden whoosh followed by a crash.  Our new college of business building at the university also has a steep metal roof and one entrance was closed last year due to the danger of falling ice.  You definitely do not want to stand on the roof when it is even slightly damp because it is like standing on ice.  Our contractor was standing on the roof installing the shutters after the siding was installed and a slight mist started and had he not grabbed a downspout he would have fallen off the roof.

The metal has been on for 5 years now, still looks like new and is undamaged through windstorms that took a lot of shingles off nearby houses.  The increase in rain noise is very minimal but we do have a very thick layer of insulation. 

Not to hijack the thread too much, my folks put a black standing-seam metal roof on their house a few years back, as well. It sheds snow like a cat sheds fur. Quite the avalanche when it comes down, but unlike an avalanche, it frequently starts at the bottom. Once a bit breaks off the end, that's all the disturbance that's needed to break surface tension and send the whole column down with a "WHUMP" that shakes the whole house when it lands.

The downside is that its a four-sided roof, so there's no "safe" entry/exit in the winter. You ALWAYS need to look up. My dad also learned the hard way that you need to position your gutters slightly below the roof line so they don't wind up getting ripped off the house when the roof sheds snow.

A worthwhile investment, though. He's getting too old to climb the roof and replaces shingles in the freezing cold several times a year, and I'm not around to do it for him anymore.

...but I digress.

I asked my contractor about metal roof. He told me you need to strip the roof and add furing strips. I found good quality metal roofing cost was a lot more expensive. There is cheap stuff out there also. You do not want any screws showing because the sun will break down gaskets in time and cause leaks around the screws. Then you really should not walk on the finished roof.
It sure makes sense though but stainless steel would be a lot nicer.
 

The steel for this roof is anodized black. It was solid black when it came off the roll, and stayed solid black where the seams were bent into it, no cracking or stressing of the color. Whatever is on it ain't letting go.

There are no exposed screws or nails of any kind anywhere on the roof.

It costs more than an asphalt roof, but the asphalt roof my folks put on the house back in the late 80s was already deteriorating after 20 years, and the contractor on that job was a good close friend of the family and used good quality shingles. This roof will last a whole lot longer than that.

Another factor for them is that there are no wind obstructions for 50 miles from the west to the northeast and all bearings in between, the prevailing winds are out of the northwest, and the front of the house faces north. The house was shedding shingles every winter for the last five years or so before the steel roof.

So for them, it was a good investment, but that doesn't make it suitable for everyone, obviously.

No, seriously, I'm really not trying to hijack this thread!  ;)

Speaking of roofs and snow falling from them. What are those gizmos that you generally saw at the 'foot' of a slate roof? They kind of looked like a door stop. I always thought they were there to difuse the snow. I wonder why you couldn't incorporate something like that on a metal-roofed house?

Depends on the slope of the roof.  My dad built a house that had a slate roof (which he did himself).  When the snow let go it sounded almost as though a train was passing by.  What a rumble!  That's what those thingies were for - except we didn't care as the entrance was not under the roof - never figured out why people had entrances under where a slate roof dumped its goodies

Al

They are called 'Snow brakes'. When used over an entrance way, they are V shaped to direct sliding snow and ice off to the sides.

My guess is that having such a long mast extending above the lightweight tower was what caused the failure. Attaching the guys at the top of the mast put a lot of downward stress on the pipe. The horizonal force becomes downward force.

Using rope for guys probably allowed some serious shaking to start as the rope stretched and the mast began bending. Note the almost 90* bend in the mast right at the top of the tower. Could this be the result of compression?

I would suggest not putting such a long mast on your replacement tower, get a tower of the required height and guy it per the manufacturer's specs.
Maybe you could find a local ham who is experienced in commercial towers to advise you in planning the new instalation.

 

The tower was guyed at the top of the mast and at the top of the tower.  The three tower legs where coroded all the way through.

C

Clark,

All the way thru?  The whole tower or just at the bottom?

If at the bottom only, did the tower legs at the bottom sit in such a way for water (condensation) to leak out? This can be done by letting the leg openings sit on large size gravel under the concrete or having ~1/8" holes in each leg before entering the concrete, in the case of a self supporter.  If the legs are soild steel, then no need for this.

A pier pin assy uses accomodates this too.

Water, especially if it finds its way in through the joints via wind, etc, can wreak havoc it it pools in the legs at the base.

T

The original owner of the house installed the tower. It was here when I purchased the home.  It looks like it was set in about 5ft, Then Concrete dumped into the hole. There was several ft of earth ontop of the concrete. The tower was probably used and old when he put it in 10 years back.  I think the real downfall here was the 100 mph wipping winds. I dont think any kind of small tower like this would have taken it. People lost entire homes here and huge oaks and pines came down all over.

Good news!  The insurance company is paying for everything. The check is in the mail. Now to decide exactly what to put up!  I am thinking about the UStower 41 ft crank up/tilt over tower.  Do you guys think its worth the expense to go to the 55 ot 60? I want to get a Triband beam like my Brothers M2 or maybe his old Force 12 will work.  Then, I would like to run the zep, inverted V style at the top of the tower. 

Tomorrow, We are installing the first of my Two GAP voyager verticals. I am tossing around installing two so I can phase them. I cant find to much information on how to do this so far in my research.

C

Well, good, then calling it a JS install isn't an insult on you.  ;)

The earth atop the pad gives me pause. Even in your arid climate, that gives moisture a place to gather around the tower legs. It wouldn't take much, either, since very few places in the world have pH-neutral soil. A tiny trace would be enough to allow acid/alkaline action to start working on the metal.

Like Tom said, if there was no escape route for condensation inside the legs, you have your culprit. It eventually would have come down in any wind. You're fortunate that a windstorm took it down, your insurer is picking up the bill.


That's debatable. I've seen some pretty scrawny towers take some serious wind abuse. Depends on the workmanship put into the erection, mostly. If your tower had proper drainage and strong guys, it may well have held, but we'll never know for sure.


The difference between 40' and 60' is huge on 75 and 40. 40' on 75M will give you lots of high-angle energy, and little-to-nothing towards the horizon. Get that up to 60' and you start pulling in a lot more medium- and some low-angle energy. Ditto 40, except you'll be going from 1/3 wavelength above ground to 1/2 wavelength, an even bigger gain in low-angle energy.

"Worth it" depends on your (insurer's) wallet, of course, but from a technical standpoint I'd say "yes".


If he's still in Tuscon, Dean WA1KNX would be the guy to ask. I honestly don't know if he's in Arizona or Vermont these days, but he had a two-vertical and three-vertical array in AZ. He gave up on three after a while, but on both arrays he was quite loud here in Maine on 75 in the overnight hours, and we had many a late-night QSO during the winter.

Sometimes we hams use salt to boost the ground conductivity of a grounding system. The folks who purchase, or upgrade to a salt water pool (like me), are getting a lesson on electrolysis and corrosion. The constant splashout of 3000ppm salt water into the earth and surrounding area eventually lead to massive problems as the soil salt concentration builds up. Here is just one:

http://pages.prodigy.net/jcandela/Salt/Picture%20004.jpg

The picture was taken from a hotel I recently stayed at.

This picture might also occur with a tower installation similar to what Clark describes. Any current flow between the tower into the cement and the house ground would eventually cause issues from electrolysis. This is similar to pool owners who have a potential difference between the house ground, and the pool ground. This doesn't matter until one goes to a salt water pool. The salt water becomes the electrolyte.

Jim
Wd5JKO

You know all about that if you ever owned an automobile and lived anywhere it snows in the winter, especially in the 1980's or before.

Nowadays they use better coatings on the metal parts of cars, but it used to be that a brand new car would rust out in just a few years, despite the best efforts to keep it clean, if driven in road salt.

Salt rust used to force people to purchase a new car every few years, to help keep the economy going. Some jurisdictions will fail the safety inspection if there is even a tiny amount of body rust, as if a rusty door panel or small hole anywhere on the body would pose any kind of safety hazard.

Rusty Jones was a freakin' pansy.

Unfortunately, they've also "improved" the garbage they spew onto the roads. A lot of municipalities in New England have started using a saline-type solution suspended in a liquid.

It's becoming common for wires to corrode from the inside out around here, as the wicking action of stranded wire sucks the salt solution right up into the wires. You can power-wash your undercarriage all you want, there's no getting it out once it's in.

I was once on a crew who took down a 300' ROHN 45  tower.  Imagine that - 300' of Rohn 45. Anyway, it was erected intially as a replacement for a similar Rohn 45 that fell down within a few year of erection. Seems the farmer had been dumping his old batteries into the ground at the same point where a main guy wire anchor came out the the ground. Over only a short few years the 1" galvanized solid steel rod had eaten away and dropped the tower.. 

However, I have a soild steel guy rod (5/8" diameter) that has been there since 1986 for the 150' guyed Rohn 45. The last 3" is dirt and the rod shows no galvanizing, but is not rusted thru in any way at the ground level. So soild steel can take the abuse in some cases of dirt. It shud be inspected every few years to be sure.

Clark -  I would put up a Tennadyne log periodic, the largest you can buy. The 30' boom 10-20M may be a good buy. Forget the traps and interlaced Yagis.  Unless you want to stack mono-banders, I feel the log periodic is the way to go. Interaction, trap loses and other factors are the reason.

The crank up tower is a good idea if you do not want to climb much, but for strength and dependablity (and simplicity with less cost) go with a standard Rohn 45 or 55 guyed tower on a pier pin and be done with it.  You can get away with two sets of guys for 60' and have a bullet-proof installation - and 60' high is the minimum working height for reasonable 75M work.


T

Alright.  I am going to go look at a 65ft Triax a guy put up and never used. My brother said it looks like new with NO rust. I can have it if I crane it out of there.  I REALLy wanted the crank up option.  Servicing the antenna would be a huge plus for me. 

The Guy that did the install qoute has been installing Rohn for BC and Cell us for 25 years.  He told me it would be pennys on the dollar to just get Rohn 55 up and that he could do the job in 3 days.  One day to dig and rebar. One day to concrete and level.  couple weeks drying time, Then 1 more day to put the tower up. 

Its funny you mention the salt. This tower and ground WAS salted.  When I moved in there where BAGS of salt for a water purification system out there all over the base.  I am sure that did not help matters. Its a very common trick here in AZ. We are on Rock and there is very little soil. 

C

" It's becoming common for wires to corrode from the inside out around here, as the wicking action of stranded wire sucks the salt solution right up into the wires. You can power-wash your undercarriage all you want, there's no getting it out once it's in. "

I can't use my auto door opener and the 2WD to 4WD switch won't switch anything......
(The critters ate up my auto repare fund this spring so the 4WD will hafta pine for the money.)


klc

Yesterday we spent 6 hours building the GAP voyager antenna.  Lots of parts. Crappy instructions. This thing is 45 ft long and real flimsy. I got the base anchor in and all the guy anchor points. I planned on putting the thing up today but came out to find the top hat is munched.  Looks like the dog ran head long into the top of the antenna and got caught up in the wire. Three of the top hat alum supports are bent over 90 degrees. Not sure I can fix it. I will probably have to call for spare parts today.

The sloper that I have been using is ok 75 but kinda piss weak on 40.  I wanted to get this up so I can at least enjoy the bands while the choice is made on the tower and beam.

C

Clark,

What is the Gap vertical gonna be used for?  Does it get mounted on the tower or is separate? 



If separate then:

If you already plan on some kind of 10-20M Yagi and a dipole for 75M/40M (the best of those whirls) why bother?  You can shunt feed the grounded tower as a vertical and make it very effective on 160M or 75M by adding radials.  

An additional vertical will just get its pattern muddied up from interaction from all the feedlines and 65' tower. Those things are in the vertical plane, NG.

Feed the tower and if you keep all feedlines on the tower along with the centers of the Yagi and dipoles, they will act as top capacitance hats - and the feedlines will be invisible to the tower when used as a vertical.  Hope that makes sense.

T

Its a ground mounted vertical that is 45 ft tall. I got it cheap and new in the box.  We figured we would put it up for DX work on the AM bands. It covers 20,40, 80 and 160. 

http://www.gapantenna.com/voyager.html

I have always wanted a vertical as I understand its going to beat the wire past 1000 miles.  So this winter, I can put a big maul dropping carrier over there to you and the guys :)

As for the tower. I am not sure which one I am going to buy and what antenna I am going to put up top.  What I am waiting for is a used tower/antenna/rotor package in town. There are at least 10 a year being sold here as people move or come ill.

I have the company standing by to do the foundation to spec. This could take a couple months to get done. So we wanted to use the vert and stretch the zep back up for the mean time.  Or, I can buy a new tower but the qoute for the 41 foot crank up is $4777. 

C