The AM Forum

Well, thought I would have a 32V2 to get rolling for this fall so I would get in some QSO time finally. NOPE! UPS destroyed it before I even got it! Maybe I need to shoot for year after next and keep my fingers crossed.

Phil

Here's a few more. I need a pain pill!

I trust you took out insurance for it, right?

Ouch. It must have been very painful to note the damage at as you unpacked it. Looks like it may have been tossed, causing the chassis to warp, and then it landed so that all the weight was on the rear, and something heavy landed on top of it bending the front panel backwards. What a mess.

As Dick mentioned, I do hope it was insured...

As hard as it is to Package an item of this size an weight
it looks like it coulda used a little more effort.

A lot of hard work ahead OM. that's a drag.

73

Jack.

I was the seller, packer & shipper & I did insure it. Trying to make an online claim now.

Terry

I wouldn't ever recommend shipping something that is both vintage unobtanium and heavy.  They always seem to get banged up.  That happened to the audio amp I had shipped from N Mexico last winter.  They even managed to bend the corner of the front panel, a standard 19" rack panel.  Luckily no damage was done to any of the  components, and since it was actually two amplifiers combined on one chassis, I had already planned to rebuild it into two separate units, so I wasn't too pissed off.  I did hammer out the dent in the original panel which is now in my parts collection.

I think the knuckle-draggers who work in shipping companies get pissed off when they have to lift a heavy parcel and deliberately try to do as much damage as they  can by letting it roll off the loading ramp or tossing it off the truck to the  concrete floor below.  I remember working on some equipment at a major airline terminal in Boston in the 70's, and it was not unusual to see guys come in with the shift change with an attitude (maybe had a fight with the wife the night before or an argument with the boss?), and deliberately abuse luggage on the conveyor belt - like picking up a suitcase by the handle and slamming it to the floor, and then kicking it and tossing it 10 ft down the ramp.

I have a problem with these companies, which charge inflated prices for shipping goods but take no responsibility for making them arrive intact.  Their attitude is that their job is limited to getting the item from point A to point B, and the condition upon arrival is irrelevant.  I disagree.  If they are charging money for moving goods, they have an obligation to transport it without damage, if it was packed properly. What is the point of shipping an item if it will be damaged or destroyed?

I never have tubes shipped any more.  If I can't pick them up personally, or have someone I know to be trustworthy to bring them to me, I simply don't attempt to acquire them.  3 out of the last four HF-300's that I have had sent here were destroyed in shipping, and (classic Murphy's Law) the one that made it intact was probably the only one of the bunch that was already crapped out.  

I deal with commercial shipping here at work on an almost daily basis.

pick your poison: UPS destroys it, or FEDEX loses it !

the best way to get something bulky or heavy from point A to point B is truck freight. Period! Crate it up good and ship it truck freight. I think the secret is that it gets handled less times by human hands. I had a rather large HEAVY crate of stuff shipped to me by Skip (K7YOO) some months back by truck. It arrived in fine condition totally unharmed! Not to mention for heavy stuff they are a lot cheaper than the others. 

I had a QSO with a guy long time ago who was in UPS management.  I kept my mouth shut as he described the crap that went on between management and the worker-bees.  There has to be a lot of pent-up anger as these poor folks go through job-related crap.  Unfortunately, for us it means that all too often we are the victims of an attitude problem.  Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Are you going to try to rescue it?

Best wishes, Al

I sold about 7-8 items in this last batch of shack clean out over the last two weeks - mostly big old heavy radios & this was the only item they damaged.
Of course the 32V2 was the heaviest. Shipping weight was 93#'s less the cabinet.  It looks like they just dropped it from a dock or ramp.

Definitely agree with Frank. Last December I ordered online a large flat-screen TV to be shipped to my home. Wife thought I was nuts. "It's going to come in a large bag of broken pieces" she said. The unit was shipped by truck freight. The truck picked it up at their warehouse somewhere in IL; it may have been transferred to another truck locally here in NJ before it was delivered to my curb by a large truck. One person couldn't lift or manage the large box, so for $10 cash, the driver and I carried it off the truck, up 12 front steps, and into the vestibule of my home, where he waited while I unpacked and inspected it to make sure there wasn't any interior damage and I was satisfied. The only visible exterior box damage was some corner bruising and some wearing of the bottom as the box was dragged from place to place. As far as I can remember, I have never ordered such a large and fragile "whatever" so I was quite pleased with the outcome.

I have shipped big things in the past, but they require major and extreme packing measures.  When I was at Digital, everything had to pass the "Drop Test", where the ready-to-ship item had to survive, unharmed, a 3 foot drop.

This is very hard to meet with a heavy and/or delicate item.

Anyway, I shipped a BC1004 once.  First, I spotted packing material in all the openings, and between delicate parts so if the receiver was dropped, say, on its back, the IF cans would not be bent out of position.  Also used a wood frame to protect the back - this frame was attached to the front panel.  This is very important.  Next, wrapped it in the thick, large bubble bubble wrap so there was literally a foot or more around it on all sides.  Wrapped it in all different directions.  The, put it in a very strong WOODEN crate with albino rat droppings (those white packing peanuts) to fill in any gaps between the crate sides and the bubble wrap.

The thick bubble wrap does not puncture easily.

The package was fairly large (as I recall, 3 feet on a side), but everything was in perfect condition upon arrival.

I recently received a SX-42 and NC-303 from Terry and they were both well packed and arrived in great shape.  But with the additional weight of the 32V a severe shock is going to result in damage.

From an ebay purchase I got lucky and received an undamaged HT-32B even though its protective packing consisted of a well used lightweight cardboard box with some balled up newspaper thrown inside.  A few months after that I received a triple boxed Breting 14AX with the front mirror glass cracked despite all the efforts at packing.  Luck of the draw....

Hi,

That's really too bad what happened but from looking at the photos, it looks like the rig might be repairable.

Shipping a heavy boatanchor takes a lot of work and money.   At a minimum you have to find two big double ply cardboard boxes that are big enoiugh so that the rig can sit inside the smaller box with 2 inch thick styrofoam slabs all the way around it.  The bigger box has to be big enough for the small box to fit inside it with room for more styrofoam.  The rig should be stuffed inside with bubble wrap so nothing inside can move around.  That's the only place bubble wrap should be used.  Forget peanuts, crushed paper, any other kind of material.  The rig has to be suspended inside 4 inches of dense styrofoam so its steel can fall at least 5 feet and have a solid compressible surface to absorb the force.   Any big tubes or heavy iron should be removed and shipped separately.  The cabinet should be wrapped in a plastic garbage bag and put inside the small box.  You have to get the slabs of blue wall insulation styrofoam and cut them with a saw to line the box.  Then you put that box inside the big box so it sits inside more 2 inch thick styrofoam.  When you are done you have a big heavy box that was expensive and a PITA to pack and get to the shipper, but it is still cheaper and easier than driving the rig 1000 miles yourself.

Getting the styrofoam is easy, any Lowe's has 4 foot by 8 foot by 2 inch slabs.  you can fill in the cracks with spray non-expansion foam sold in aerosol cans.  The hard part is getting decent boxes and measuring and cutting the styrofoam (do it outside or your house will be full of particles you'll never clean up).  

Be sure to back all the front panel knobs up against the front  panel so the force of impact is not on the knob shafts.    

92 lb 32v2......hmmmmm
Was it marked heavy electronic equipment?
It took quite a fall to bend the chassis and move transformers.

I have heard that UPS 3-day select is a lot gentler to electronics. TRU-FALSE??

I would get the rejects that didn't make it in UPS shipping from Howard W3HM, when I was doing piece work.
Truck/Freight shipping might be the answer. Or encase the item in a wood structure.

Fred

Of course the other question is:  Why use UPS?  I *never* use them for anything.  Shipped 100 mod monitors all using USPS priority mail - not one unit damaged or lost.

I don't know what the weight limit for Priority is - maybe a 32V would be too heavy.

The US post office will not take anything over 70 pounds.

Wow, it looks like it took quite the fall. I've always used United Package Smashers as a last resort. FedEx seems to be less brutal on things. Hope things work out!

Terry did a good job packing it; and he didn't really want to send it in a box, but I was really impatient to get it and begin the work. I believe shipping is really just luck of the draw; sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.


As far as trying to salvage it; I'm not sure. The front panel is bent really bad and that is some pretty healthy gauge aluminum. If I could find a good donor, it might be do-able, but would be pretty labor intensive. We'll just have to see what course of rectification UPS offers first.

Phil   

I don't ship any boat-anchors....

But I have learned that it pays to pay UPS to pack the item for you....

The reason?

If they break it, they will pay the insurance to you no questions asked.

If you pack it... it is usually quite a battle, and a lot of time to MAYBE get the insurance payment.

I sent a class-E rig to Ohio.
Payed UPS to pack it.

Was  at first a little disappointed that they did not ship it the day they said they  would.
But got a phone call saying they didn't have on hand the packing material they thought they should use, and had to order the proper materials.

He told me they don't take any chances when things are insured for $1k each package, because they have to pay the insurance claim if there is any damage.
(Their own policies hold them to it!)

I was supprised they took that approach, but happy about it!


I've been rakied through the coals on several occasions with FedEx.
I won't even allow someone send me a package via the Ex... let alone place anything in their hands...

Everyone has had different experiences I guess.

I've shipped at least 300 items via UPS over the past 7 years... have had no problems.

(knock on Oak)

Oh yeah, I forgot about the class E rig you sent!  Good idea having UPS pack it.  Not exactly a light weight transmitter, either.  Do you remember how much the packages each weighed and how much UPS charged to pack it up?  I'd be very interested.

Regards,

Steve

I think they were 35 and 24 pounds. Modulator and RF deck.
Then the RF converter, cables, etc were in another small box.

But I'd have to dig the reciept out to see how much it was ..
It was a looong time ago!  Well, 1 1/4 yrs ago... seems like a looong time  ;D

I think the total cost, including insurance ($2200 total), packing and the actual shipping... was less than $150.

shipping solid state boxes is totally different from tube stuff with a lot of transformers

if by getting ups to pack it you mean going to one of those ups stores, i think they are independent contractors and ups won't do anything special if they don't pack it right.

fedex has its own probs:  they have started making it a real PITA to take delivery if a box is insured for much  more than 100 bucks.  it don't matter if it is something one in a million people wouldl want like a mod monitor, they will act like it is gold coins and demand the addressee be there in person to sign for it and they won't make any time window committment and no exceptions like a neighbor taking it so if you are single with a day job you have no choice but take a day off and wait around and  if you are the shipper and specifically tell them not to require signature they will ignore you, require it anyway, not ask you or even inform you ... I am done with FedEx forever.  UPS will just leave the box no problem.  FedEx thinks a million people all want a 75A3 and everyone is married with a stay at home spouse.

forgot to mention this--another front panel protection trick I've seen done is to surround each knob (or the big ones that stick out the farthest) with heavy mailing tube cardboard that extends an inch or two past the knob.  This protects the knob, shaft and front panel from impact if a few are done this way.   the mailing tube is put inside zip lock bags so they don't scuff the panel paint.

Yep, I see the damage.

Straight G-force damage.

Thrown, dropped, tossed by Gorillas.

I have never had a package damaged by UPS.
I had ONE package on international shipment damaged by FedEx.
That one had to be rammed by a forklift against a solid immovable object or some similar fate
like being dropped off the tail end of a moving plane...

The trick, if there is one is to understand, and anticipate the various problems and deformation modes
before starting the packaging.

There are two aspects - the stuff inside the unit and the second is the exterior of the unit.

MOST damage people get is to the exterior of the unit. Some damage is due to a heavy part (iron for example) moving the
surface it is being held by.

The trick for avoiding the exterior damage is to do G-Force limiting, and transfer the load to another surface.

I do this by packing the unit inside another box using energy absorbing materials whose density is scaled to the weight of the unit. Heavy stuff gets "blue board" or "pink board" solid styrofoam board cut to fit the unit. Lighter units get progressively lighter and more compressable material. No matter what there needs to be a zero motion between the unit and the packing + box. This box is then packed into another box, larger, scaled in size depending on the weight and packing material used.

The key is that the unit has to be completely supported and immovable inside the inside box. This transfers the energy from the unit to the box - or looking the other way, it causes energy on the inner box wall to be absorbed and spread before impacting the unit. The purpose of the outer box is to also do the same trick, in this case, you don't care if the outer box is
bashed, you want it to absorb energy and have the ability for some deformation. So I usually use a less dense material between the inner and outer boxes.

Also, use a large distance between the inner box and outer box.

In the case of the 32-V at 90lbs I'd have used a minimum of 6" in all dimensions between the inner and outer box, maybe more.
The inner box in this case would be 2-3" minimum. The box itself would be wrapped in "strapping tape" so that the box's shell is stiff and connected (energy transfer).

I'd also have used some stiffening for the corners and probably at least one layer of "free" cardboard halfway from any outer box surface and the inner box to further spread energy to the "stuffing"

Protecting the inner iron is a bit more tricky. In most cases, extra application of internal stiff styro between key points to make certain that the iron is not able to move independently between WALLS of the unit is required. Sometimes I use something solid like a wood insert, if it makes sense.


Hope this describes my method. It works. An extra box in the mix doesn't hurt, fwiw. The key is that the inner box MUST be very very tight to the unit, no motion possible. And the inner unit can not DEFORM inside that.


it hurts me to see a nice a piece like that Collins get trashed...

                      _-_-

When the Box gets to the main USP hub, It will endure Drops of up to 8 to 10 ft.  There where pictures on the net. It will also take HARD hits from air rams to move it to the right location. If your packing job cant protect the item from 10 ft Drop, Dont use UPS.  

Always double box.  Wrap entire rig in large cell bubble then tape..  Then box. Then wrap that box in the same bubble and box it AGAIN.  We ship big items like this all the time and have good success this way. Buy real packing materials from a shipping supply house. Dont use light weight consumer grade bubble wrap.

C

Also, I was told by a UPS employee thar "fragile" or "glass" meant use for a football or shotput. The sticker you want on your package if you must use UPS is "high value item". this means they are insuring it and heads will roll if it's broken. Usually starting an investigation to see which employee in particular is responsible and incurring disciplinary action to that individual.

I had a 10KW portable generator delivered to my door step via freight. It arrived damaged. The container stated which end was supposed to be up. It was on one side when it came off the truck. Motor mounts were F'd up and damage was done to the wiring harness.  The manufacturer fixed it free of charge, however.

I used to work for a McIntosh audio dealer.  I always liked the packing job McIntosh did with their audio equipment, especially their big audio amps. The boxes were triple thickness of the hardest cardboard made plus the bottom of the amps were bolted to 1/2" plywood.  All of that secured by triple thick extra hard cardboard folded and formed in such a way that it was impossible for the piece to move inside the container. And the sides of the container were hard as can be.  Their stuff always arrived at the store undamaged.  Their packing though probably added another 40lbs to the overall weight.

Make a package heavy enough so the gorillas can't lift it by hand and maybe it won't get tossed around??

Back five years ago, I cleaned out the shack and cellar of all gear and big parts I wasn't using. On e-bay I sold maybe 60 items and cleared about $6,000. Haven't missed a thing - good riddence.

I didn't want to deal with packaging so made each sale contingent on UPS doing ALL the boxing and shipping. Every shipped box made it through OK except for one. Many of the more fragile items were double boxed.  The single box package that didn't make it was a disaster. It weighed about 90 pounds and contained about 40 pounds of lead bullets, used in loading. Also had two loading machines and assorted tools in the box.

The buyer was POed and sent pictures. The box was torn in half with lots of missing bullet tips and tools. What a mess.  UPS paid, of course, since it was their packing job. I arranged a deal where the guy got  about 80% of his money refunded from UPS and got to keep the package too. He was vely vely happy with Tom Vu.. ;) whew.

Bottom line is with good, double boxed packaging and a buffer of styro peanuts between the two, most stuff will survive, but not always.  

BTW, Don - Huz and I recently scored a bunch of used 8877 external anode tubes in a package deal. All of them arrived FB via UPS.  I've also received a few 4-1000A glass tubes in good corndition over the last three years. They all had the original Eimac packaging which is quite good.  However, for very fragile tubes like you mentioned, personal pickup is the only way.

As for employee package handing care - I think it will only get worse as attitudes get nastier in sync with this global bear market. Packages will get beat up even more than they do now.

T

Try FedEx I think their employees are less disgruntled.

Hey I can feel ups emp's pain who wants to work as a casual for twenty years what teamsters haa.

73

Jack.

Id like to see pictures of the shipping box and packing before commenting.

Carl

Whenever I receive a parcel containing a fragile item, I  get out my digital camera and take pictures to document every stage of unpacking.  The first picture is the box just as it arrived, then of the unpacking, making sure to clearly show how it was packed, then when the item is revealed, showing it as it is still inside the box, and finally, a photo showing any damage.

I haven't tried using the photos with an insurance company, but it has left a few private individual shippers no doubt that the item was damaged or destroyed in shipping and that I was not bullshitting them.  But I think it would be helpful for an insurance claim as well.

If it's a package  you have to sign for, refuse to sign it until you have opened it in the presence of the delivery guy and made note of any apparent or suspected damage.  The delivery guy might be impatient and in a hurry, but you still don't have to sign the paper until you are satisfied that the condition of the contents has been documented in his presence.

I think I may have to call UPS and talk to someone about it. Their next step is to request me to repackage it and let the driver pick it up so that the claims dept. can inspect it. I could only imagine how much worse it can get trashed after that. What does everyone think the odds are of getting that front panel straight again? It has a slight bend inward at the dial face, but it is not creased. Also looks like it took a hit sideways and everything shifted a bit, but that may be a fairly easy fix. I guess the main question would be the PTO; it appears to still move freely with no binding...

If there is a chance to fix it now, I'd hate to lose that by letting them butcher it up any more.

Phil

Phil said:
Phil
    Try getting in touch with Howard Mills, W3HM, over in Harpers Ferry, WV. Tell him your plight. He may be able to help you get it back in order.

Yeah!  Let's not forget the poor victim -- the 32V.  If you're not going to restore it to its reasonable original condition maybe you can give / sell it to someone who will give it the TLC it deserves.  I'd hate to see it become a parts 32V.  Just my humble thoughts.  Good luck. 

I've has some great results across the board on shipping an some disasters. Here's a few shots of an EICO RP100 that didn't survive that 10 foot drop and kick routine. There was no corner that wasn't rounded and distorted. It was poorly packed That frame was so badly distorted that it is a parts carcass.  One of those great DC takeup motors. shaft was bent at a 10 degree angle rendering it useless.  Sad.  That was USPS.

GL, Al

Ive yet to see a properly packed item get damaged from general handling and not a forklift tang thru it.

That includes many 32V weight items such as a HT-9 that survived well in a wood crate all the way from Monterey, CA.

Another option for heavy items is motor frieght, its really not expensive if you shop around the carriers. Check out Greyhound if you and the other party have convenient terminals. It gets a lot less handling and rides in comfort.

NEVER, NEVER allow UPS to pick up that package. Demand that an inspector come to your house. ALL packing material, labels, etc must be saved.

Carl

That's a good idea, Carl. I need to see if someone will come out and look at it. It is extremely heavy, so that alone may convince them to do that instead of shipping it back.

Phil

We had to discontinue using UPS and FedEx at our businesses, unless absolutely necessary (weight and size limits at USPS). UPS was damaging loads of items, FedEx was loosing lots of stuff...and at a higher shipping cost than USPS.

We do the same thing on incoming packages that look damaged, and require photos from customers who claim damage. We got an email once, about a scam that someone was openly promoting on a motorcycle forum. There was a heavy (but inexpensive) part that we manufacture, that costs too much to return if damaged. It simply wasn't worth paying shipping back to us (or wrestling with damage claims), just so we could toss it in the metal recycling bin. So, people would call/email and complain that they had a bad part, and we'd ship another. We found on a forum, a person who was telling others to call and tell us that their part was bad or damaged in shipment, and that we'd ship another. They would have a spare or could sell it on ebay. A quick ebay search confirmed it was happening, and we changed our policy. One likes to think people are honest, but there's always some out there who spoil the system.

We had a very large R/C aircraft returned to our hobby shop (35%) with a forklift tang hole punched straight through the container & aircraft. The claims rep (not USPS) came to  look at the aircraft and said "It's not our damage, we wouldn't use a forklift on this". Since it had only been in their hands I asked "what did it?". The rep had the package picked up to take to claims. They replied that it wasn't their damage, and pushed me around in paperwork for months. I requested that my product be returned and they said it had been taken to a storage facility and lost. They still haven't paid the claim, despite loads of documentation.

I never have this problem with USPS. They might take a while to settle the claim, but they do it.

Sorry for your loss OM.
I've been lucky so far. Bears point about double boxing and no Inertia is correct.  
I received a dble. boxed HQ180 that looked like the Samsonite gorilla got his mitts on it when it arrived. A co-worker signed for it. It was intact and functional thanks to the buffer and foam.
I agree that parting the 32V would be unfortunate also.
                                      
                                                  DJ

If it can be made to work don't part it out, even if it can't be made to look right cosmetically.  Not everyone cares about looks.  I don't.   I realize if you are the purchaser the damage will stick in your craw and you may not want to look at it every day.  As a last resort sell it at a discount and someone who just wants a working 32V will be delighted to get it.   Damage becomes part of a rig's history and nothing lasts forever.   

I actually had that happen to an expensive signal source from my antenna range.  Someone ran a forklift right through the side of the box and connected with the unit.  The large hold left by the forklift was not patched and an expensive interconnect cable was lost which I had to purchase.  If that wasn't enough, when it got back to Raytheon, our movers tried to deliver it to the wrong building -- when he couldn't find me, he just left it on the hallway and walked away.  A friend of mine called me when he saw my name on the shipping label.  Never ceases to amaze me the attitude of some people who are fortunate enough to have a job.  DON'T GET ME STARTED ;D

Al

I've been flying Feeder aircraft for FedEx for the last 20 years and I've watched tens of thousands of packages go by on belt loaders on the way into and out of my aircraft. Almost all of the damage I see results from crappy packing by the shipper, most of it by manufacturers and distributors. The shipping containers are a bit over six feet tall and the larger and heavier items end up on the bottom of that pile, pack accordingly. I've seen companies ship car windshields stapled between two sheets of cardboard, of course it was just a bag of broken glass when I saw it, as was it's replacement the next day, the third day it showed up in a proper box.

Most of the FedEx personnel do a fine job and I don't see deliberate damage at all. Stuff does happen though and I don't count on "this side up" always working. Count on it being at least rolled over as it comes off the belt if the thing weighs more than 75 lbs or so.

I do a bit of construction and remodeling on my house and save most of my scrap plywood and lumber. I'm not at all shy of using that stuff to screw together a shipping crate to protect heavy and sensitive gear, it only takes a few minutes with a table saw and a driver with sheet rock screws. I've yet to have anybody lose or damage a shipment.

It sounds as if this case was one of those in which it was properly packed and something unusual happened to it somewhere in the process.

The typical route for a package is pickup by the route truck, transfer to the truck going to the local airport, transfer to my aircraft, transfer to a freight container at the host city airport, the can goes on the Jet to MEM, off the Jet to the big sort and then back into a container to go on the outbound Jet. When it gets to the receiving host city the can gets off the aircraft, gets sorted and then on to a city truck or another Feeder aircraft, off the Feeder, into a truck, back to the station and then into the route truck. There are at least a dozen transfers in which damage can take place. What's amazing is not how many packages get damaged but how most don't.

In general, it's not UPS or FEDEX - it how the stuff was packed. I've received several hundred items shipped commercially in the past 8 years. Many were fragile items. Only one item was damaged. The rest were fine. Why? They were packed correctly for the size and weight.

Maybe the solution would be to pack the merchandise in a spherical container, with plenty of shock absorbing material in between.  Remember that's how NASA packaged the Mars rovers.  They hard landed and bounced multiple times onto the surface before coming to a rest, then deployed perfectly.  They must not have sustained too much damage, since they were designed to last 6 months but have been running how many years now?

That should make UPS, Fedex, etc. happy, since they try their damnedest to convert any rectangular shaped box into a sphere during shipping anyway.  Ever notice how rounded the corners of the box are when it arrives?

Don,


It's a little known sport. It's called "Box Bowling"... that's why the corners are rounded off...

There's a another little known sport that is oft played. It's called "Downhill Box Racing"...

 ;D ;D

                      _-_-


PS. It's akin to "Turkey Bowling" which is popular in supermarkets...

When shipping a heavy boatancha, I cut six pieces of masonite to snugly fit all six sides of the box.  A4X8 sheet is only a couple bux at the home despot.

Wrap the radio in a plastic garbage bag.  Put it in a box that snugly fits it.  Then use rigid styrofoam on your masonite-lined box to surround said boxed radio.  The masonite helps the box keep its shape and really resists any but the boldest attempt at piercing the box  ;D

Never had a complaint of a damaged radio...

When my friend, Steve, K1MV, sold his Ranger on eBay I offered to build him a plywood box for shipping. I had some 3/4" shop grade birch plywood scrap left over from a recently completed cabinet project and a roll of bubble wrap from a recently purchased computer that fit the bill perfectly. Everything was glued and screwed together except for the top and the Ranger survived it's trip from Maine to PA in one piece. At the very least I would have purchased a sheet of OSB and some strapping for the project. After all the horror stories that I've read on this board I wouldn't ship anything that I cared about in a cardboard box.

Make sure the garbage bag is a heavy duty one that won't leak.  Use the above precautions and fill the remaining voids with Great Stuff or similar expanding foam caulking/insulation. The "door and window" product is best, because the expansion is more gentle. Use it strictly according to instructions so the expanding foam doesn't damage the box or its contents.  It's a PITA to remove when the parcel arrives, but it holds the  contents immobile during shipping.  I have seen stuff professionally packed that way.  Just make damn sure the raw foam doesn't come in contact the merchandise; otherwise you will have the mother of all messes.

I don't think I'd ship anything the size and weight of a 32V through anyone like UPS or FedEx due to their stated methods and requirements. Even with great packing, there are still some serious deceleration issues involved with things like big chokes and transformers hooked to chassis by hardware. This is why it is recommended to remove them. Easier to do with a big amp or R-390 with modular design, but something to consider. Carl makes an excellent suggestion with Greyhound, no conveyors, kickers, or 6-10' drops to concrete floors.

Always keep in mind that these shippers are a business and as such, throughput is the name of the game. Their job is to move your package, not babysit it from Point A to Point B. They do clearly state their expectations for packing requirements, unfortunately few bother to read.


Precisely. Same experience here over some 2 decades. So far, two items damaged - one via UPS, clearly from poor packing (a receiver purchased this past winter, arrived with tuning knob sticking through the side of the box), the second, from FedEx - a 45 lb rewound modulation transformer mounted on a half inch board and double boxed with solid styrofoam surrounding it. In this case, no moving parts and excellent packing, also a short distance (around 200 miles, only 1 hub and 2 terminals) so poor handling was to blame. The FedEx folks who handled it apparently didn't want to work for their wage, and a broken cast iron frame was the result. The box had no corners left and was black with dirt on all side from being slid across a concrete floor. They did finally pay out over $400 on it and it's long since been repaired. But by far - poor packing and/or judgment are the primary cause for damage these days.

Good luck with repairs, Phil. Looks like you should be able to save it. A nice transmitter when it's working right, a true workhorse.

When UPS Ground first started accepting shipments up to 150 Lbs,  there was a Driver AND a Helper on the truck (at least in our area).  This was not too hard on the humans, and easy on the shipped item.  Later the Helper was elinimated.  It was up to the driver to do it all.

A few years ago bought 4 large power inverters.  Each weighed 147 or 148 Lbs in its package.  The UPS truck pulled up,  driver rolled up the back door,  and pushed the box out of the back of the truck.  Bingo,  on pesky lifting of heavy freight,  onto the hand truck and the job was done.  The inverters seem to have been packaged to accommodate this delivery technology,  as they seem to work,  still.

I expect that this is the usual technique in dealing with 75 + Lb packages.  And the drop to the pavement is not MORE THAN THREE FEET,  after all.  What's the worry?  Any problems,  it has to be a packing problem !

But,  agree,  it is astonishing to me that so many items shipped by individuals are SSSO0OOOOOO  POORLY packed.  Often seems to be no concept of the Laws of Physics  on the part of the shipper.

Altho,  I am not a Physicst either -- too hard to spell.    Vic

I think you just gotta be smarter than the shipping personnel are clumsy (or downright vicious).

We recently shipped a 6" refractor telescope from our observatory in TX to a scope manufacturer in AZ for some machining to mount a new CCD imager. We covered it in a couple garbage bags, hung it  horizontally by wires in a plywood "coffin" we built for it and sprayed expansion foam until it came about half way up the diameter of the scope. We let that foam set and then topped off the remaining area in the box with foam. After the top layer of foam set, we sliced it even with the top of the coffin and screwed the lid down. Stenciled "FRAGILE" all over it.

The scope guru did his machining magic and sent it back the same way. It's back riding on the side of our 32" Ritchey-Chretien, still perfectly collimated after riding FedEx both ways.

It may be of interest that the scope guy recommends only FedEx, since he's had problems with UPS.

ldb
K5WLF

Well... It's been a month now; as of tomorrow, 3 weeks since I sent the info to UPS. Nothing heard from them or the seller. I emailed UPS requesting information, but of course they will not release it to me. So, it looks like I've learned a very costly lesson. No more buys that I can't see firsthand, and no more business with UPS. Father's Day present just turned into major Father's Day project. This may take quite a while.

Phil

fedex has not broken anything yet but there is always a frst time.

usps has delivered ball-shaped cartons with destroyed audio amplifiers inside. the cartons were rectangular when handed over.

ups will lie cheat and steal to avoid paying you your just claim no matter how you packed it. They are the worst and have a terrible reputation for trying to cheat customers and make it as hard as possible to file and collect claims.

I had a heck of a time packing all that gear individually or however, leenyars and tunas, from the last estate for a couple guys up in yankeeland. I was very afraid it would be smashed, but I got to say, just using your head and not trying to skimp on smallish box sizes, and using bubble wrap, not those dang peanuts which shift and flow everywhere. Also, if something like a wad of cables or the like has to go, it can be put in a "pizza box" type of carton. that is a shallow one, but wide and long. This then helps the packing if it is on the side or top. Cardboard tubing- -yes.. also, cutting cardboard strips out of old boxes and folding them into triangles, then tape. - make your own knob-tube or even front-panel-keeper. On each side of the carton, a 5x5" FRAGILE sticker, up-arrows, and on top, a "DELICATE INSTRUMENTS" sticker. I ought to buy some tip-n-tells.

haha btw guys can I have the 8122 pleaaase?