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Author Topic: The Extra Class License - Take the 30 Day Challenge!  (Read 44365 times)
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K1MVP
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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2006, 05:51:50 PM »

Do you really think slopbucket groups like the ones on 3875, 3878, 3892, ad nauseum, will move anywhere?  They bought those frequencies years ago and they're now paid in full. To QSY would be a sign of unMANliness.  Besides,  how do you get the SWR down on that ol' dipole antenny anyhow?

Don,--I hope you are right, as I DO enjoy an AM "qrm free" QSO, but as Tom said
"time will tell".
I still think 160 will continue to be the "better" band for some time to come,--
which reminds me,--I better get back to the homebrew 160mtr 813 linear.

                                                73, K1MVP   
 
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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2006, 07:17:28 PM »

A lot of you old farts should already be Extra Class.....if not, then shame on you! What have you been doing with your time? Ham radio doesnt need you if you arent interested in it......That General ticket should have a one year time limit.....then your out!!

Ill see my fellow Extras on the new freqs with my homebrew sg rig. Hope you guys can hear me. What freq should we grab squatters rights on? I always wanted my own freq. This will be fun.
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« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2006, 07:42:38 PM »

I did it last summer and one month is a very reasonable time to prepare. I got the Extra book and I had an old one from 1989. That tells you I was thinking about upgrading a long time ago but put it off. I feel horrible about not taking the 20 WPM.

The online tests were a real help. At first I was missing many questions. Towards the end of three weeks I was easily passing the online tests. I found that studying on alternate days helped.

Set a deadline. I found a VE session in a town 35 miles away and knew nobody in that club. I had two weeks to go. They all gave me the eye when I showed up. I missed two questions.

Do not forget your license and ID!

The online Vanity program allowed me to shorten my call from WB2UID to WU2D - an improvement for CW but still preserving the horrific nature of my call. That Vanity system worked great.

Mike
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« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2006, 07:54:49 PM »

THE ARRL IS "CONSIDERING" A PETETION TO CHANGE THE R&O BEFORE IS GOES INTO EFFECT

"Still to be resolved are three controversial aspects of the Proceeding:

Expansion of the 75 meter phone band all the way down to 3600 kHz (thus reducing the privileges of General, Advanced and Amateur Extra class licensees, who had RTTY/data privileges in the 80 meter band, and CW privileges of General and Advanced class licensees)

The elimination of J2D emissions, data sent by modulating an SSB transmitter, of more than 500 Hz bandwidth. This will make PACTOR III at full capability illegal. Other digital modes effectively rendered illegal below 30 MHz include Olivia and MT63 (when operated at bandwidths greater than 500 Hz), 1200-baud packet, Q15X25 and Clover 2000.

The elimination of access to the automatic control RTTY/data subband at 3620-3635 kHz.

The ARRL Board is discussing the possibility of a petition to reconsider several items in the R&O."



MY OPINION??    START SENDING COMMENT TO ARRL NOW, BEFORE ANY FURTHER ACTION IS TAKEN!!
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2006, 08:25:37 PM »

Screw the ARRL. they should know by now to be careful what they wish for dealing with the FCC. i took my Extra theory twice back in 1996, without studying. aced it the second time. the 20WPM took three tries: first try a corrupt VE failed me because "she could not read my handwriting" on the copy. she died a few years after that (complications from being hit by a city bus and flying 50 feet). God answers prayers. second time i was still hammered from a night of heavy partying- Ok, my fault. third time's a charm though, and i got it. see you all on 3685 for opening night...maybe our Euro AM friends can join us there too! the paperwork to apply for unemployment, welfare and food satmps is harder in this state than the current Extra test. time to get busy you guys!
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2006, 01:16:57 PM »

From the ARRL homepage today:

"Deadline extended to accept members' input on "omnibus" Report and Order (Nov 15, 2006) -- The ARRL has extended the deadline to receive members' input concerning the FCC's "omnibus" Report and Order (R&O) in WT Docket 04-140 (FCC 06-149), released October 10, and published in the Federal Register November 15. The R&O will take effect Friday, December, 15. The ARRL will accept members' comments until, Wednesday, November 22, one week after Federal Register publication. The ARRL is specifically seeking member guidance on how the changes the R&O mandates will affect current operating activities on 80, 40 and 15 meters (see the current ARRL band plans and an ARRL FAQ that includes a chart showing the band changes.) Submit comments by e-mail. All e-mails will be read and considered, but individual responses are not possible. Thank you for your assistance and cooperation!"
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
K1JJ
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2006, 02:01:52 PM »

[ Grin
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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2006, 02:53:15 PM »

From the ARRL homepage today:

"Deadline extended to accept members' input on "omnibus" Report and Order (Nov 15, 2006) -- The ARRL has extended the deadline to receive members' input concerning the FCC's "omnibus" Report and Order (R&O) in WT Docket 04-140 (FCC 06-149), released October 10, and published in the Federal Register November 15.

My guess is the ARRL is trying to save face after the FCC basically ignored their previous proposal. Instead of falling down they are trying to look busy. I doubt this will change anything now or later. But if I were still a member, I'd certainly write in telling them to leave the new regs as is. In fact, I'll send a personal message to Dave Sumner, anyway..  right now.

73,
T

Tom(JJ):
What you quoted is just fluff. You missed the guts of what (KLR) quoted. The real meat is "The ARRL is specifically seeking member guidance on how the changes the R&O mandates will affect current operating activities on 80, 40 and 15 meters (see the current ARRL band plans and an ARRL FAQ that includes a chart showing the band changes.)"

With the "No Zone" new General and Advanced sections coming into play, especially on 80, there may be some changes to their band plan guide. Likewise, there may be some additional "CW/digital/data/RTTY/emergency" gathering spots/areas that were not part of their original guide. Some amateurs need direction, "where is this window?" where is that group?", "where do the nuts hang out?", etc., etc. This ARRL request is not diddling with the regulations.
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2006, 03:09:25 PM »

Tom(JJ):
What you quoted is just fluff.

You may be correct and I deleted my post as a result.  I believe this line is what looked dubious: "The ARRL Board is discussing the possibility of a petition to reconsider several items in the R&O". Someone else said it was just a rumor...

However, your approach here leaves much to be desired. I can see why there is much friction generated when you start defending the ARRL, Pete.

73,
T
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2006, 03:13:02 PM »

To paraphrase KF1Z from a previous thread:
Quote
from arrgghhl

"

Still to be resolved are three controversial aspects of the Proceeding:

Expansion of the 75 meter phone band all the way down to 3600 kHz (thus reducing the privileges of General, Advanced and Amateur Extra class licensees, who had RTTY/data privileges in the 80 meter band, and CW privileges of General and Advanced class licensees)

The elimination of J2D emissions, data sent by modulating an SSB transmitter, of more than 500 Hz bandwidth. This will make PACTOR III at full capability illegal. Other digital modes effectively rendered illegal below 30 MHz include Olivia and MT63 (when operated at bandwidths greater than 500 Hz), 1200-baud packet, Q15X25 and Clover 2000.

The elimination of access to the automatic control RTTY/data subband at 3620-3635 kHz.

The ARRgghhL Board is discussing the possibility of a petition to reconsider several items in the R&O


Hmmmm Pete, it seems that the (be)League(d) doesn't seem too receptive about the new privileges. Nothing like the ARRgghhL biting the hand that feeds US!
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« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2006, 03:38:16 PM »

To paraphrase KF1Z from a previous thread:
Quote
from arrgghhl

"

Still to be resolved are three controversial aspects of the Proceeding:

Expansion of the 75 meter phone band all the way down to 3600 kHz (thus reducing the privileges of General, Advanced and Amateur Extra class licensees, who had RTTY/data privileges in the 80 meter band, and CW privileges of General and Advanced class licensees)

The elimination of J2D emissions, data sent by modulating an SSB transmitter, of more than 500 Hz bandwidth. This will make PACTOR III at full capability illegal. Other digital modes effectively rendered illegal below 30 MHz include Olivia and MT63 (when operated at bandwidths greater than 500 Hz), 1200-baud packet, Q15X25 and Clover 2000.

The elimination of access to the automatic control RTTY/data subband at 3620-3635 kHz.

The ARRgghhL Board is discussing the possibility of a petition to reconsider several items in the R&O


Hmmmm Pete, it seems that the (be)League(d) doesn't seem too receptive about the new privileges. Nothing like the ARRgghhL biting the hand that feeds US!

Actually, all General, Advanced, and Extra Class licensed amateurs should be unhappy with the first paragraph issues ARRL states:
"Expansion of the 75 meter phone band all the way down to 3600 kHz (thus reducing the privileges of General, Advanced and Amateur Extra class licensees, who had RTTY/data privileges in the 80 meter band, and CW privileges of General and Advanced class licensees) "

For now, the second and third paragraph issues, should not be challenged.

It will be interesting to see, during the next major HF CW only contest, where the "overflow" of CW contesters (from the CW only section), especially on 80 meters, are going to take up space.
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« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2006, 03:54:41 PM »

Tom(JJ):
What you quoted is just fluff.

You may be correct and I deleted my post as a result.  I believe this line is what looked dubious: "The ARRL Board is discussing the possibility of a petition to reconsider several items in the R&O". Someone else said it was just a rumor...

However, your approach here leaves much to be desired. I can see why there is much friction generated when you start defending the ARRL, Pete.

73,
T

Tom:
I just responded to your response to KLR's quote. You are correct that the ARRL is discussing the possibility of a petition to reconsider several items in the R&O but that's not what you were quoting. Our "problem" here is that we have several different discussions going on in the same thread. (I shudder to say that; if you recall our last time)

Here is what Tom, KLR quoted from the ARRL site:
From the ARRL homepage today:

"Deadline extended to accept members' input on "omnibus" Report and Order (Nov 15, 2006) -- The ARRL has extended the deadline to receive members' input concerning the FCC's "omnibus" Report and Order (R&O) in WT Docket 04-140 (FCC 06-149), released October 10, and published in the Federal Register November 15. The R&O will take effect Friday, December, 15. The ARRL will accept members' comments until, Wednesday, November 22, one week after Federal Register publication. The ARRL is specifically seeking member guidance on how the changes the R&O mandates will affect current operating activities on 80, 40 and 15 meters (see the current ARRL band plans and an ARRL FAQ that includes a chart showing the band changes.) Submit comments by e-mail. All e-mails will be read and considered, but individual responses are not possible. Thank you for your assistance and cooperation!"


You didn't have to delete your message. We just apply it to their(ARRL) other proposed activity:
"The ARRL Board is discussing the possibility of a petition to reconsider several items in the R&O."
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« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2006, 04:49:18 PM »

Understood, Pete -

I guess when I saw PG's post (that either got deleted or was in another thread) about the league's supposed resistance to the new regs, I saw red.  I feel these new regs are the best thing that ever happened to the 75M band and I must be getting possessive about keeping them around.

I usually regret getting involved with political ARRL bashing, discussing, cussing and the fall-out afterwards....  Wink  My general rule is to stick with technical stuff and helping people here on the BB. It's too easy to get wound up sometimes...

73,

T
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Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

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There's nothing like an old dog.
wa2zdy
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« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2006, 06:16:41 PM »

ARRL is pissy about this one because the filthy rich cheapskate yachters just lost their email service.  Now they'll have to go pay for sailmail or something similar.  These yachters are not HAMS.  They're licensees who got thier licences solely to be able to freeload on our bands to avoid subscribing to the commercial services where their traffic should be. 

Why does ARRL care about these people?  They buy expensive gear including Pactor III modems and that increases advertising revenue for QSTreet.  Not to mention ARRL is very interested in Pactor III modems, though as far as I know the link to the money hasn't been found.

Down with Pactor III and Winlink.
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« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2006, 08:46:24 PM »

The elimination of J2D emissions, data sent by modulating an SSB transmitter, of more than 500 Hz bandwidth. This will make PACTOR III at full capability illegal. Other digital modes effectively rendered illegal below 30 MHz include Olivia and MT63 (when operated at bandwidths greater than 500 Hz), 1200-baud packet, Q15X25 and Clover 2000.

Wait a minute...isn't it the ARRL who wanted digital subbands with a maximum emission bandwidth of 500 Hz? It seems that they got some of what they asked for in RM-11706!

There's an old Chinese proverb: "Be careful what you ask for..."

In RM-11306, as part of the bandwidth proposal, the 500 Hz max was specified for RTTY and data(slow speed data) and possibly some highly compressed image and voice digital stuff.

Also, as part of the bandwidth proposal, 3.5 KHz was specified for SSB, digital telephony, image, high speed data, and multimedia. I believe  in the ITU band plan, they only specified 2.8 Khz for the image, high speed data, and multimedia stuff. Pactor III is far more robust and runs 3 to 5 times faster than Pactor II at 2.4 Khz. There are probably other features that also make it more attractive than Pactor I and II. I guess the notion of taking highly compressed image and/or voice data down a very narrow tube was not their idea of 21st century progress.
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« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2006, 09:16:16 PM »

ARRL is pissy about this one because the filthy rich cheapskate yachters just lost their email service.  Now they'll have to go pay for sailmail or something similar.  These yachters are not HAMS.  They're licensees who got thier licences solely to be able to freeload on our bands to avoid subscribing to the commercial services where their traffic should be. 

If they can live with "slower" service, and it's still "free", what have they lost other than time. You're on a boat, floating around.

Quote
Why does ARRL care about these people?  They buy expensive gear including Pactor III modems and that increases advertising revenue for QSTreet.  Not to mention ARRL is very interested in Pactor III modems, though as far as I know the link to the money hasn't been found.

Down with Pactor III and Winlink.

Whether it's Pactor II or III, I believe from what I've read, the modems are the same. The only thing that changes is the software. I don't recall ever seeing any ads in QST for SCS (the creators of Pactor) but maybe I missed them. Can you point any out? QST did do a Product Review of SCS Pactor II controller in Jan. 1997 and another SCS controller in April 2000.

And, ah yes, the preverbal money trail; shades of another reflector. If they do advertise, there's your money trail. It's called advertising revenue.

But, we all know, the ARRL is evil, but not as evil, as Evil-Lyn.

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« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2006, 10:59:57 PM »

Quote
I guess the notion of taking highly compressed image and/or voice data down a very narrow tube was not their idea of 21st century progress.

Quite the change in the push for more narrow bandwidth emissions on HF => spark to CW, AM to SSB, wide-shift RTTY to narrow-shift RTTY, etc.
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k4kyv
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« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2006, 12:22:35 AM »

My greatest concern is that the new rules restrict a disproportionate amount of spectrum to Extra class only.  I say this even though I have been licensed as Extra class since 1963.

The existing 3750-3775 kHz Extra class voice subband is already sparcely occupied, and I suspect that expanding this segment fourfold will result in the 3600-3700 kHz segment becoming even more underutilised as an Extra class voice subband than this sectrum is to-day as part of the cw/digital subband.

After the new rules go into effect, I suggest carefully monitoring the level of activity throughout the 75-80 m. band for one or two years, and after that period, if a substantial number of U.S. licensees have not upgraded to Extra class, and the Extra class segments remain sparcely populated, that the FCC should be petitioned to greatly reduce, or eliminate altogether, the band segments restricted to Extra class only.

The AM community can do its part by making sure this segment of the band is occupied with AM from day one.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2006, 06:21:45 AM »

Nov 21 at 700PM I'm going for the Extra.  Discovered there's an exam session not to far from here.
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« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2006, 09:29:22 AM »


Whether it's Pactor II or III, I believe from what I've read, the modems are the same. The only thing that changes is the software. I don't recall ever seeing any ads in QST for SCS (the creators of Pactor) but maybe I missed them. Can you point any out? QST did do a Product Review of SCS Pactor II controller in Jan. 1997 and another SCS controller in April 2000.

And, ah yes, the preverbal money trail; shades of another reflector. If they do advertise, there's your money trail. It's called advertising revenue.

But, we all know, the ARRL is evil, but not as evil, as Evil-Lyn.




Pactor III modems are somewhere around $600. +
they'll do PIII and PII.....

A PI / PII modem will not do PIII.

Most ham software out there will not even DECODE Pactor III (some will do PI / PII)!!


Between WinLink and PIII, what are there, maybe 1000 stations on the air?


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K1MVP
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« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2006, 09:47:37 AM »

My greatest concern is that the new rules restrict a disproportionate amount of spectrum to Extra class only.  I say this even though I have been licensed as Extra class since 1963.



After the new rules go into effect, I suggest carefully monitoring the level of activity throughout the 75-80 m. band for one or two years, and after that period, if a substantial number of U.S. licensees have not upgraded to Extra class, and the Extra class segments remain sparcely populated, that the FCC should be petitioned to greatly reduce, or eliminate altogether, the band segments restricted to Extra class only.


Don,
As far as a substantial number not upgrading to Extra,--that MIGHT have been true
back 30 years ago or more,--but with the "new" Dick Bash method of "studying"
and only 5wpm cw,--I could see where MANY would just "cram es jam" to get
the "extra lite" to get the added spectrum,--IMO.
Heck,--the "30 day challenge" is more like a "3 day challenge" with the published
answers.

As I recall,--there was an article in QST a while back about a weekend ham radio
class that was able to "license" over 100 people in one setting,(Dick Bash style)
and the ARRL thought it was "GREAT".
.
                                            73, K1MVP
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« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2006, 09:52:01 AM »

Why is it that no matter what a  particular thread is discussing the ARRL shows up in the thread. Then we are all privileged with the typical PG hate post and the it just goes on and on.

Phil everyone knows you hate the ARRL with such a passion that you are rude in here, Pete everyone here knows you support the ARRL so much it makes some sick.  How many times do we have to hear this same old garbage boys ?   Move on - - - It is getting old

This thread is about taking the extra class ticket, It is a positive and forward moving thread.  It offers something to the community in a positive light and in the end many will gain from this. I do not see why this thread had to go off topic bringing the ARRL into play except to disrupt or incite.

The real question is - How many of the people in here that say they are taking the extra will be down low on the 15th??

Tom JJ and myself did our calculations on the arrays and found that we are ready for down low with the existing ant systems so we are all set here.

Hope to see ya there

G

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« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2006, 09:59:30 AM »

Why is it that no matter what a  particular thread is discussing the ARRL shows up in the thread. Then we are all privileged with the typical PG hate post and the it just goes on and on.



This one's my fault, I'm sure.......

I posted the blurb about the arrl's possible petition to change the new rules.....
Thought as many people possible should be aware that the plans to move down to 3600+ could be thwarted.

SORRY! Embarrassed


At any rate..... whether or not things change, it'll be great to see herds of new Extra Class (double meaning) hams on the bands soon!

See that? even the thought of new territory has been incentive enough for some to upgrade!!



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« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2006, 10:10:26 AM »

Quote
ARRL is pissy about this one because the filthy rich cheapskate yachters just lost their email service.  Now they'll have to go pay for sailmail or something similar.  These yachters are not HAMS.


Let's see, so far I'm not a real ham because: I didn't pop out of my mother's womb in 1954 waving an extra class ticket, I didn't pass the extra class exam when it was 20 wpm, and even if had had passed the exam in the short time that I have been a ham it would only be an "extra lite" not a "real" extra ticket due to the "dumbing down" of the testing. Now this. I became seriously interested in ham radio after installing a marine band HF radio on my boat.  After meeting a number of other boaters who are licensed hams, some of whom used Winlink for e-mail, I could easily see the utility of having a ham ticket. I've talked with friends throughout the Caribbean Basin and across the Atlantic  from my home station while they made passages, providing them with some small bit of comfort knowing someone was out there and giving myself with a little vicarious thrill. God forbid someone actually use the ham bands for communicating. I suppose it's a far better use of the alloted bit of spectrum performing endless audio checks and recounting our medical issues.

I've found ham radio absolutely fascinating and the vast majority of the operators welcoming and helpful, particularly on AM, but the divisive nonsense like the above post very discouraging. With attitudes like this  is it any wonder that the hobby/service isn't drawing many new members?

Well, the consolation in all this is the sudden realization than I'm filthy rich, I wasn't aware that I was even moderately rich.
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« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2006, 10:12:45 AM »

My greatest concern is that the new rules restrict a disproportionate amount of spectrum to Extra class only.  I say this even though I have been licensed as Extra class since 1963.



Don, today's Extra exam is easier than the General I took in '66.

And that was in front of a steely-eyed FCC examiner, at the same time taking the bus and train downtown and cramming myself into an uncomfortable grade-school desk in the Chicago Federal Courthouse on one of the few appointed days every month.

All we had to work from was the ARRL license manual. None of today's study aids existed.

And remember- There used to be a time-in-grade requirement before you could even apply to be an Extra? And the 20 WPM code test?

I don't think the requirement to be an Extra today is unfair or a burden at all.
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