Audiophoolery

[wa1knx]

hi all,
        finally getting on here. Interesting thread, we had a group internal where I
worked that were audiofiles and had similar discussions. I was the ee type, and
poop-poohed stuff like 10k speaker wires, writing with a green marker around cds etc.
however I learned I had a poor audio system, as compared to listening to theirs!
I picked though the bs.  They pointed me to better gear, better speakers, setting up sweet spots and more. I wound up with infinity ref II towers, and H&K amp. I made
up my own #10 stranded spkr cable, and the system was sure was sweet. I'm not
a audiofile, but I learned from them to be less casual about putting a system together!

deano!

[John Holotko]

Hmmm.............. I wuz wonderin when someone wuz gonna come up with audio grade knobs!!  There Ya go!!

Buy it now, for the descriminating audiophile only: NEW AUDIO GRADE KNOBS PRODUCE THE FINEST TESSITURA...........just $399.67 ea

only while supplies last.......................

Actually the kind of knobs used on high end equipment may actually enhance or depreciate the overall listening experience. The first part is a psychological effect. Grasping a cheap, flimsy knob as you crank up the volume adds a "bad feel" to the amp. Using quality knobs gives the amp a better look and feel which is psychologically interpreted as a bestter over all listening experience.

Then there is the concept of forced vibrations. Think about it. When you arelistining to sound you are creating sound waves. Speakers movong rapidly compress surrounding air create vibrations. Firced vibrations in objects, such as the audio components, tubes, and yes, the knobs will vary depending on the resonance charachteristics of the material. So, think about that knob vibrating rapidly and transfering it's energy to the potentiometer it's connected to. Think of that pot in vibration and how the electrical charachteristics will be affected. Sure , probably quite small but perhaps enough to depreciate the listening experience in the ears of a critical listener.  Now consider the resonance charachteristics of any component in the system and think about how it may or may not adversly affect the overla experience. Break it down piecemeal aqnd you'll find that even if one particular affect, i.e. vibrating knobs, dielectric effect, etc may make no discernable difference to the listener what is the aggregate component of all these effects on the listening experience.  It is this aggregate that is going to have the biggest impact.

[KB2WIG]

manufactures would put metal plates in equiptment so it would feel heavy (man).. if its heavy, it Must be built better...

As far as science, double blind testing (by disinterested persons - no direct financial benefit) and reproduceable results and peer review, is the best way (so far) get an answer approching the truth.... These religious wars, over a piece of wire, do not accomplish anything... 

When there is any doubt about the validity of a statement, or an opinion, just remember that I am ALWAYS RIGHT, no mater what you all think.....

I hope this helps ....         klc

[W1DAN]

Hi Bear:

If you can find a technical article that shows the scientific data that supports your hearing an improvement of expensive wire over zip cord, I’d be more inclined to be a believer. Find the data and show it to us. Until then I’ll stick with my zip cord as I hear no problems with it.

I looked at the datasheets for the 5534 and opa2604. The 5534 has an open loop power bandwidth of only 700hz. The 2604 can do 400khz and has distortion one magnatude lower than the 5534. Hard data supporting a better sound. Good stuff! I have been to the DIY forum and enjoy it.

As far as the phono preamp sounding better with passive and separate EQ than the total EQ strapped around the feedback of one stage, my guess (and I have no numbers to support this!) is that the op amps can drive the loads better than when a capacitance is shunted around the feedback path of an op amp (a reduction of slew induced TIM). Maybe the separation eliminates the IM between the poles. But I say this sounds better to me. I could be wrong for others and do not say this is a definite improvement that all should use. I have not seen a paper supporting any test numbers yet.

You are correct that my ear gets “used to” the sound of my stereo. There are better stereos, but I enjoy mine without worrying about improvements.

Oh well, time to cook some burgers on my class A amp (Ok I really do not have one)….

73,
Dan
W1DAN

[WBear2GCR]

Hi Bear:

If you can find a technical article that shows the scientific data that supports your hearing an improvement of expensive wire over zip cord, I’d be more inclined to be a believer. Find the data and show it to us. Until then I’ll stick with my zip cord as I hear no problems with it.

I said nothing about expensive wire at all.
What I talked about was differences without regard to price or cost.

I looked at the datasheets for the 5534 and opa2604. The 5534 has an open loop power bandwidth of only 700hz. The 2604 can do 400khz and has distortion one magnatude lower than the 5534. Hard data supporting a better sound. Good stuff! I have been to the DIY forum and enjoy it.

I looked too, can't find any open loop BW spec for the 2604 in my BB book! Oh well.
But the idea that you're willing to accept that you might be able to hear the difference between an opamp that is claiming 0.0003%THD @1kHz and one that is a bit higher is interesting. Fwiw, the BB book explains something about the differences between the distortion spectra for FETs and bipolars wrt the audible "sound" of an opamp, and also the distortion of this opamp...

As far as the phono preamp sounding better with passive and separate EQ than the total EQ strapped around the feedback of one stage, my guess (and I have no numbers to support this!) is that the op amps can drive the loads better than when a capacitance is shunted around the feedback path of an op amp (a reduction of slew induced TIM). Maybe the separation eliminates the IM between the poles. But I say this sounds better to me. I could be wrong for others and do not say this is a definite improvement that all should use. I have not seen a paper supporting any test numbers yet.

One needn't wait for a paper before either experimenting or trying something like this. Papers and "proof" typically lag developments by quite some time.

FYI, my phono stage uses no feedback. It's generally accepted in the high-end community that this yields a superior result. Split EQ is also widely accepted as superior.

You are correct that my ear gets “used to” the sound of my stereo. There are better stereos, but I enjoy mine without worrying about improvements.

I enjoy mine too. 

Oh well, time to cook some burgers on my class A amp (Ok I really do not have one)….

73,
Dan
W1DAN

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

Let us not forget these words of wisdom:

"A fool and his money will soon part".

[John Holotko]

Now you're talkin my langauge. Nothing like the taste of that fresh garlic when preparing a good sauce. And that pickled eggplant sounds very appetizing. If ever you wish to share one of those recipies I am all ears. 

John,
        If youu come down for my "Post timmonium party" You can expeirence it firat hand!!

                                                                            The Slab Bacon

Ah,thank you...  sounds good !! I'll look forward to it. 

[RF FRUITFLY]

   Ok, This is my first post as the most recent member. I shall endeavour not to make too much of an a$$ of myself. I do enjoy "high end audio" and have succesfully completed some DIY projects. The snake oil can be as much fun as any other aspect of the hobby, however the music is the stated goal, ie are you listening to music or equipment? Those of you who are photography enthusiasts should check out the various nonsense that goes on in that hobby! Google "bokeh" for an example.Post Scriptum, I was listening to a bunch of northeas AMers on a regenerative rcvr using a 100 TH full of gas, said 100TH was given me by W2PFY. Bye

[WBear2GCR]

Now, lessee is that raw virgin pressed snake oil, or the commercial variety??

And a regen w/100TH??

A c'mon! I think my leg has been pulled so much I'm walkin' like I live on the side of a hill or sumtin'!! 

Blaming poor PFY... tsk tsk.

             btw, where are you located that you call then "northeast AMers"??

                           _-_-WBear2GCR

[RF FRUITFLY]

Mr. Bear, 1. Raw virgin.2.Yes 3.That could be an advantage, depending upon where you live.4 Ask Terry. 5.Lake Placid, New York. Is that sufficiently "northeast" ?.

[RF FRUITFLY]

Mr Bear, Iforgot to mention my Soundcraftsmen amp and my sattelite/subwoofer system with the enclosures of granite [3mm] .

[WBear2GCR]

I have to admit that this is a great candidate for pure confusion, a combination of real technology (Nimbus) and absurdity, from a listserve of the most rabid toob-o-philes:

(header has  been changed to protect the innocent)

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 10:06:54 -0500
From: Ray
Subject: [JN] P. T. Barnum strikes again
To:

?

http://www.machinadynamica.com/

comments?


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Ok, now I'm laughing and pointing too... 

         _-_-WBear2GCR

[W1RKW]

Been there, done that

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=7038.0