Audiophool's - Funny stuff

[W1RKW]

Time for another episode of "As The Audiophool Turns".  Some of these maybe reruns.
I'm not sure if I should spend my money on the piece of wood or the cable elevators.

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina28.htm
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina64.htm
http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?cat=280&sku=AELEV
http://www.mother-of-tone.com/acoustic_panel.htm
http://www.altmann.haan.de/tubeolator/default.htm
http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm
http://www.audioexcellenceaz.com/audiodharmacablecooker.htm
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/mit_oracle_v21.htm
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/audiomagic_clairvoyant.htm
http://virtualdynamics.ca/products/MAS/POW
http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AP-CDSL

[W1ATR]

C'mon man, 800 skins for 2 blocks of wood? That's a friggin bargain.

My favorite is the cable cooker. I have somthing similar called the "Coax Cooker" I did all my feedlines and now I get 5kW and 400% positive peaks out of my 12 pill leenyar. caw-mawn

Once and a while, I'll be out on a service call (HVAC), and I'll spot one of these crazy stereo systems in someones house. I've learned to keep my mouth shut because I have no patience what-so-ever for the typical audiophool ramblings, like "Yeah, I just spent $1500.00 on these 8ga. oxygen-free speaker cables, and man, what a difference they made!!"

 

[Gary - WA4IAM]

Man, I'm in the wrong business! I ought to throw all scruples out the window, whip up some really convicing new age tech neo-speak, and market some repackaged audiophile horse manure to these idiots and get rich off their wishful thinking. The cable elevators are a hoot, the chip that is "firmly based" in quantum physics is highly laughable, and my favourite is the $20 marker used to paint the edges of the CDs. "Laser S/N ratio"?!! Morons! You're looking for digital information, not a direct analog track.

The best web site I've ever seen that explains sound acoustics for music reproduction is that of Wendy Carlos, one of the pioneers of electronic music. I wish she would write an article taking on all this audiophool snakeoil. Her electronic engineering qualifications are beyond question, one of the few in the recording industry who actually knows from a solid engineering standpoint and from REAL world experience what is valid and what isn't in the realm of audio. I know she could teach these so-called "audio experts" a thing or two!

[WBear2GCR]

At the risk of stirring up a veritable bee's nest here - not all of "high-end" audio is snake oil.

Some of it well may be - like "Shun Mook Pucks" for example.

On the other hand, some rather odd stuff can and does make an audible difference. In addition, as you lower the distortion - starting with the speaker system - and working back to the source, more and more rather tiny insignificant things become audible. 

You know the old story of the "Princess and the Pea"? Same sort of effect actually.

Similarly, why buy a Ferrari when a VW Bug performs the "same" function?
It takes far more to get wring the last little bit of performance than the first 90%...

OTOH, bad news for old guys, guys who work with power tools, in factories, airplanes, etc..., if you've lost all or most of your hearing above 10kHz., none of it makes a damn bit of difference. 

    _-_-WBear2GCR

[k4kyv]

My favorite is the cable cooker. I have somthing similar called the "Coax Cooker" I did all my feedlines and now I get 5kW and 400% positive peaks out of my 12 pill leenyar. caw-mawn

Once and a while, I'll be out on a service call (HVAC), and I'll spot one of these crazy stereo systems in someones house. I've learned to keep my mouth shut because I have no patience what-so-ever for the typical audiophool ramblings, like "Yeah, I just spent $1500.00 on these 8ga. oxygen-free speaker cables, and man, what a difference they made!!"

What a crock of shit.  Unbelievable:

A BRIEF TECHNICAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CABLE COOKER™
Although it is not yet fully understood scientifically, the phenomenon of "cable break-in" has been experienced by many audiophiles. Interconnects, speaker cables and even power cords seem to go through a conditioning period when used in an audio/video system, and will sound better after many hours of in-system use. The sonic differences between wiring that is broken-in and wiring that is not are very audible in high quality audio systems.

And it isn't even April Phools day!

[k4kyv]

Time for another episode of "As The Audiophool Turns".  Some of these maybe reruns.
I'm not sure if I should spend my money on the piece of wood or the cable elevators.

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AP-CDSL

Actually, this one is probably really intended to defeat copy protection.  I have heard of it being done with ordinary felt tip permanent markers (at 1/10 the price).

[John Holotko]

Hey guys, I have a special chip I  call the "ultradynamic coherent optimizer". Place it on top of any transmitter, be it a modern ricebox, old tube boat anchor, solid state class E rig, etc. for 5 seconds and viola'  the transitter power  will increase by as least 100% and will be fully  capable of better than 200% positive peaks.   It works by phasing the packets of energy in your  oscillarot  and  final output stages  so that they are coherently phased causing ultra  amplification.

Of  course it's  got quantum stuff so y'all know  it's gotta work.

Now, does anyone know if they sell a special weatherproof grease that I can coat my antenna with so that the rf glides off the antenna more  efficently. Less friction of the antenna surface must mean the signal slips off better.

[k4kyv]

Man, I'm in the wrong business! I ought to throw all scruples out the window, whip up some really convicing new age tech neo-speak, and market some repackaged audiophile horse manure to these idiots and get rich off their wishful thinking...  Morons! You're looking for digital information, not a direct analog track.

... Wendy Carlos, one of the pioneers of electronic music. I wish she would write an article taking on all this audiophool snakeoil.... I know she could teach these so-called "audio experts" a thing or two!

What really pisses me off about these morons is the fact that they have driven up the prices of triode transmitting tubes and high quality audio transformers far beyond the budget capability of most legitimate users, such as AM hams who need these products for the restoration or reproduction of vintage radio equimpent.

As they get ripped off, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.  They have it coming.  Perhaps I should get in the business myself, and use the money to buy back some of the 2A3's, 211's, 845's and UTC LS-series audio transformers.  I wouldn't even think of that as an unscrupulous enterprise.  I'd do it in a minute.

[W1RKW]

This one has to take the cake.

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Be sure to click on some of the links on this particular page, especially the customer comments link and white paper.


Customer Comments Sample:
"I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...Earlier today I rearranged things so that my Quantum Electraclear line purifier is closer to my system. I took the Mikro "pebbles" off the top of the Electraclear and put the bottle in my pocket, then spent about an hour listening to music. I had finished listening to a CD the second time through when I suddenly realized that pebbles were still in my pocket. So I put the bottle back on top of Electroclear and WOW!!! WOW!!! WOW!!!!!!!! I ALMOST FELT LIKE ALICE IN WONDERLAND!!!!!!! THE SYSTEM JUST SOUNDED SO AMAZINGLY NEW AND ORGANIC AND CORRECT!! IT'S DIFFICULT TO EVEN PUT IT INTO WORDS BUT THE SOUND IS NOW VERY TACTILE AND IS FELT AS MUCH AS HEARD -- WOW!!!! AND THE SOUNDSTAGE -- IT'S AS IF MY LISTENING ROOM HAS GROWN ENORMOUS IN SIZE.....THANKS! THANKS! THANKS!" --

[John Holotko]

I wonder if the "cable cooker" idea works for antenna feedlines as well. After all, how can one be sure whether or not their feed lines are properly "broken in".   That + some "tubeolator" laquer on critical audio components should really  make for some super hi hi Am, Hah ??

[KB2WIG]

"
Now, does anyone know if they sell a special weatherproof grease that I can coat my antenna with so that the rf glides off the antenna more  efficently. Less friction of the antenna surface must mean the signal slips off better. "

John,
Don't do it!!.... the weatherproof grease is not conductive and will insulate the antenna.  No buddy will hear you.. Any lectrons that do squeze out will all fall on the ground......

[W3SLK]

Don said:

What really pisses me off about these morons is the fact that they have driven up the prices of triode transmitting tubes and high quality audio transformers far beyond the budget capability of most legitimate users, such as AM hams who need these products for the restoration or reproduction of vintage radio equimpent.

As they get ripped off, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.  They have it coming.  Perhaps I should get in the business myself, and use the money to buy back some of the 2A3's, 211's, 845's and UTC LS-series audio transformers.  I wouldn't even think of that as an unscrupulous enterprise.  I'd do it in a minute

What you need to do is to extol the virtues of the transistors. But only the ones with the 2N designation. Those with ECG, HEP, or 2SC are contaminated from sea-salt air due to shipment from overseas. This will make the audiophools go nutz and free up all those 2A3's and 6B4G's just waiting for placement in an AM rig

[John Holotko]

I REALLY  love the AC power cables they sell for $1500.00 for a 6 foot AC power cable and $2100.00 for a 5 ft AC Power cable.

Let's imagine for a minute that these AC cables DID actually work. Then wouldn't an audiofool have to replace the ac lines running through his walls as well ?? Would't ha have to have the power company replace all the cables right  on and up to the generator ??  What absurdity. I am surprised these people aren't put out of business for  fraudulent advertising.

[wa2zdy]

"Although it is not yet fully understood scientifically . . "  Of course not. One cannot understand that which is not.  To most folks that should mean "take the hint." 

It's kinda like ebay items that say "unable to test."  That invariably translates to "does not work."

Same thing; take the hint.

[Ed KB1HVS]

[W1ATR]

Hold on Don, it gets even better.


  http://www.tmhaudio.com/HE-833%20Ultimate%20Audio.htm

Check out the pricing at the bottom of the page, and you even have to buy TWO of them.

[WBear2GCR]

But ya know that the electronic music composed on electronic instruments of the time WILL sound rather different played on modern electronic instruments. It's the same effect as "period instruments" used for classical music...

As far as "hah ha ha..." about all the rest, be careful not to paint it with too wide a brush!

Things like coax cable between a CD transport and a DAC can and do change the way things sound!
There are definitely audible effects of interconnects and speaker cables.
Even AC cables can and do effect what you hear.

Now, if you should spend that much money on it, is another issue. I'd agree that in general, spending a lot of money on an AC cord is probably money better spend elsewhere first.

But, there are audiophiles who actually have had special wiring run for their listening rooms! Including, but not limited to three phase high amperage power, with a local step down/isolation xfmr at the room (isolated, adjoining the room)!!

Can you get most of the way there DIY, you bet!
Do hams buy very expensive rigs, and put up big towers, run expensive tubes, pay big $$ for resorations, etc? You bet. Would a DX-100 and an SB200 do as well on someone else's receiver?

Are there audiophiles with descretionary money to spend, who do not have the technical background to tell the difference, or DIY? Yep. Are there hams with descretionary money to spend, who do not have the technical background to tell the difference, or DIY? Yep.

There's no doubt that there are some sellers of stuff that is not technically reasonable in audio... but don't paint with a brush that is too wide.

    _-_-WBear2GCR

[WBear2GCR]

Hold on Don, it gets even better.

  http://www.tmhaudio.com/HE-833%20Ultimate%20Audio.htm

Check out the pricing at the bottom of the page, and you even have to buy TWO of them.

Yeah... two.

Or 5 for 5.1?

Well, is it overpriced?

Let's do the math... everything is perfectly finished, it's handmade, there's no large scale production run here... iirc the output iron is handwound... it uses "extended" triode operation (look it up).

So, how much is the basic cost of parts + labor?
Multiply x5. That's the wholesale price to the USA reseller (assuming no wholesaler...)
Double that or triple it for the retail price. How much is that?

You might figure it's still overpriced? But not as much as you'd have thought at first pass?

     

          _-_-WBear2GCR

[W1ATR]

Hold on Don, it gets even better.

  http://www.tmhaudio.com/HE-833%20Ultimate%20Audio.htm

Check out the pricing at the bottom of the page, and you even have to buy TWO of them.

Yeah... two.

Or 5 for 5.1?

Well, is it overpriced?

Let's do the math... everything is perfectly finished, it's handmade, there's no large scale production run here... iirc the output iron is handwound... it uses "extended" triode operation (look it up).

So, how much is the basic cost of parts + labor?
Multiply x5. That's the wholesale price to the USA reseller (assuming no wholesaler...)
Double that or triple it for the retail price. How much is that?

You might figure it's still overpriced? But not as much as you'd have thought at first pass?

     

          _-_-WBear2GCR

Wanna buy some oxygen free speaker wire?

I will say however that I don't know anything about this "extended triode" business, but I would like to hear what the deal is. If it has anything to do with wiring the screens together on a pentode for greater efficiency and clarity, then you may need to check your notes, as they did this kind of thing on those giant wooden console stereos back in the 50's. That's why they could blow the windows out of your house, but when you looked inside, they had 5 tubes to make all that noise. No new technology there I guess.

You can put as much lipstick on a pig as you want, but it's still a pig. 50 G's for a 100 watt block is a joke and only proves that there's an ass for every seat.

[John Holotko]

Hold on Don, it gets even better.


  http://www.tmhaudio.com/HE-833%20Ultimate%20Audio.htm

Check out the pricing at the bottom of the page, and you even have to buy TWO of them.

These are nothing but yuppie a***oles  with a lot of money to spend but absolutely no brains. These morons enjoy being stupid, so long as they can impress their stupid friends.

[k4kyv]

Even AC cables can and do effect what you hear.

Please explain.  If the power cord conductors are of adequate size to transferr the a.c. mains voltage to the power transformer primary at the rated current, how can it affect the sound in any way?  It would be a sorry power cord indeed that showed a measurable voltage drop at 115 volts with a 5 or 6 foot length.

What about the house wiring, the drop cable from the house to the pole transformer, the pole transformer itself, and the power line that runs from the substation to the pole transformer.  The a.c. power cord is the last 5 feet of several miles of cable run.

[AF4K]

PUHLEEZ - tell us HOW does an AC power cable give all those "dramatic" and "audible" effects?

At the risk of stirring up a veritable bee's nest here - not all of "high-end" audio is snake oil.

Some of it well may be - like "Shun Mook Pucks" for example.

On the other hand, some rather odd stuff can and does make an audible difference. In addition, as you lower the distortion - starting with the speaker system - and working back to the source, more and more rather tiny insignificant things become audible. 

You know the old story of the "Princess and the Pea"? Same sort of effect actually.

Similarly, why buy a Ferrari when a VW Bug performs the "same" function?
It takes far more to get wring the last little bit of performance than the first 90%...

OTOH, bad news for old guys, guys who work with power tools, in factories, airplanes, etc..., if you've lost all or most of your hearing above 10kHz., none of it makes a damn bit of difference. 

    _-_-WBear2GCR

[Gary - WA4IAM]

This whole discussion about price in relation to snake oil reminds me of a dialog between George Smiley and Tobey Esterhasse(sp?) in John LeCarres' "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy"........

George: "Ever bought a fake picture Tobe?"

Tobey: "Sold a couple once."

George: "The more one pays for it the more one is inclined to believe it's genuine."

Truer words were never said!
 

[WBear2GCR]

<snip>

Wanna buy some oxygen free speaker wire?

I will say however that I don't know anything about this "extended triode" business, but I would like to hear what the deal is. If it has anything to do with wiring the screens together on a pentode for greater efficiency and clarity, then you may need to check your notes, as they did this kind of thing on those giant wooden console stereos back in the 50's. That's why they could blow the windows out of your house, but when you looked inside, they had 5 tubes to make all that noise. No new technology there I guess.

You can put as much lipstick on a pig as you want, but it's still a pig. 50 G's for a 100 watt block is a joke and only proves that there's an ass for every seat.

No, not screens being tied for triode operation.

And, sadly, there appears to be some audible difference - for no logical reason I may add - between ordinary copper wire, oxygen free (purer copper), SPC (which is oxygen free, but silver plated) and pure silver wire in some applications where identical wire constructions have been compared. DBTs that have been published thus far have not revealed the same results - but that is likely a function of various issues and controls in those specific DBTs, imho.

Are these differences sufficient for the average guy to care about? Nope.
But what's the difference between a good fiddle and a Strad??

      _-_-WBear2GCR

[WBear2GCR]

Even AC cables can and do effect what you hear.

Please explain.  If the power cord conductors are of adequate size to transferr the a.c. mains voltage to the power transformer primary at the rated current, how can it affect the sound in any way?  It would be a sorry power cord indeed that showed a measurable voltage drop at 115 volts with a 5 or 6 foot length.

What about the house wiring, the drop cable from the house to the pole transformer, the pole transformer itself, and the power line that runs from the substation to the pole transformer.  The a.c. power cord is the last 5 feet of several miles of cable run.

Obviously, it has little or nothing to do with "voltage drop."

Anyone who doubts this stuff, and can still hear worth a damn is welcome to contact me for a first hand demonstration of this sort of thing. It's rather trivial to demonstrate.

What exactly and precisely is going on is entirely unclear to me, and rather annoying to boot. It would be far better if this sort of thing DID NOT HAPPEN at all. But it does. All the time.

To encapsulate the opinions of those who are equally incredulous, but involved in the audio hobby or business, "in properly designed equipment this will not happen." Ok, and argument that leads us to the inextolerable conclusion that a vast majority of all equipment, price not a consideration, across the board is "improperly designed." This includes all the big companies as well as the little botique ones, because over and over, you swap out a power cord and there is a quite noticeable change in the overall sonic presentation!

I posited a few ideas on potential mechanisms for this effect - which btw is greatest or most usually found with digital equipment (CD transports, DACs, and associated preamps). One thought that what is going on is effectively a combination of 1/4wave type stubs/antenna and the interaction with incoming or outgoing noise & RFI via the AC power cord.

When you consider that most home stuff is single-ended and all the grounds get tied together in TWO places (the power ground AND the interconnects) the potential for this sort of thing having an unpredictable effect has some basis...

(As I said before, some people have done extraordinary things to assure hyper clean power, and stiff lines to the gear)

Please keep in mind that this is about equal to tuning a suspension during a race on a NASCAR or IROC vehicle, something that is not even vaguely in the picture for the average person, be it on a car or in a home stereo.

Laugh if you want, but this happens over and over - you're moving some gear, changing wires, and you listen, ur jaw drops, WTF happened to the sound? Change the cables back... all ok again...

        _-_-WBear2GCR