Will Ham Radio Last Forever? An Interesting Opinion - What do you think?

[N3DRB The Derb]

there was just has much infighting in ham radio back in the 30's as there is today, in fact more of it. Read ur history in the QST's, while sanitized there's still much talk of drunken late night operating under the influence of demon whiskey. People used to play music all over 160 back then - there's a big long article about how bad the Class B operators were on 160 fone in one of the issues.

Nothing has changed. It's the same today as it ever was. It sounds the same today on AM as it did in 82 when I got on for the first time. Everybody thinks their circumstances are original and different than what went on before, but the truth is that people stay the same, only the tech changes, and in AM thats doesnt even change very much sometimes.

[K1MVP]

there was just has much infighting in ham radio back in the 30's as there is today, in fact more of it. Read ur history in the QST's, while sanitized there's still much talk of drunken late night operating under the influence of demon whiskey. People used to play music all over 160 back then - there's a big long article about how bad the Class B operators were on 160 fone in one of the issues.

With all due respect,--I am going by my experience,-- when I entered HR back
in the 50`s,--not what I have read in old issues of QST.
There may well have been "some instances", but I will wager not on the scale that
now exists.

Just look at the "infighting",-- am`er versus am`ers, SSB versus am`ers,-- cw versus
am`ers,--digital versus cw, and or am`ers, and you name it.
NCT versus "general", or "extra",-- old extra versus "extra lite", and you name it.
"homebrewer"' versus "Appliance op" and the list goes on and on.

Many of us old timers  blame the "watered down" exam system, and cw requirements
being lowered, now on the verge of being eliminated,--and guess who pushed
for all this about 20 years ago,IMO--The ARRL, the NCVEC, the "powers that be",
the Dick Bash "PC" instant ham ticket method system.

Acquiring a ham ticket began to lose "credibility", with the "new instant" day classes,
and why do you think the "powers that be" pushed for these methods?
Might it have something to do with getting the numbers up?--in a frantic attempt to
save ham radio, by the league and others? 
Again,--am going by by experience over the past 46+ years.
                                             
                                           73, Rene, K1MVP

P.S, 75 meters,(especially at the high end) sounds like CB on any given night,IMO
      20 meter SSB has been "invested' for a long time,(past 20 years)at least and
      I have even heard some on 40, which always used to be a "cleaner band".
      With the soon to be eliminated cw requirement,--the bands will really take
      a "downward spiral" with many new NCG`s and extra`s on the phone bands,IMO.
                

[N3DRB The Derb]

All I know is that the bands sound the same way now that they did back in the early 70's when I was a little kid listening to my Radio Shack Astronaut 4 portable. I do listen sometimes through the computer. Some people dropped mauls and threw carriers, and played music and others didnt. Do you know where I heard the word 'FUCK' for the VERY FIRST TIME? Some drunken freak in 1973 dropping a hammer on 75 meters talking about how his wife was cheating on him. I was listening on a brand new Drake SPR-4 at a buddys house. We giggled our asses off becuase we knew it was naughty. I was in the 4th grade, I think. So experiences differ.

With all due respect, I'm going by MY experience, which is entirely subjective on both our parts. The rest of your comment I dont have anything to add to, except to say that judging one by age (more > better) only works to the point at which you begin to slobber and drool and forget all that stuff you know, and you will reach that stage sooner than I.

[K1MVP]

All I know is that the bands sound the same way now that they did back in the early 70's when I was a little kid listening to my Radio Shack Astronaut 4 portable. I do listen sometimes through the computer. Some people dropped mauls and threw carriers, and played music and others didnt. Do you know where I heard the word 'FUCK' for the VERY FIRST TIME? Some drunken freak in 1973 dropping a hammer on 75 meters talking about how his wife was cheating on him. I was listening on a brand new Drake SPR-4 at a buddys house. We giggled our asses off becuase we knew it was naughty. I was in the 4th grade, I think. So experiences differ.

With all due respect, I'm going by MY experience, which is entirely subjective on both our parts. The rest of your comment I dont have anything to add to, except to say that judging one by age (more > better) only works to the point at which you begin to slobber and drool and forget all that stuff you know, and you will reach that stage sooner than I.

OK and I can understand where you are coming from.

Back in the early 70`s,-- I was just starting a family(was in my early 30`s) and was not as active on the bands as I was when I was first licensed.
(As a youngster, got interested in 55 and did a lot of listening from 55 until I got my ticket in Dec of 59).

When I did get on in the 70`s, I would usually get on 20 and 15 to chase dx once and a while, so I seldom if ever got on 75 and 40 meters.

I also was not on AM at that time,--(mostly slopbucket chasing dx) and can see where
I might have missed out on the some of the "crap" that was going on at that time.

It`s too bad that ham radio has "degenerated" into what it has,--and its also my
contention that it will only get worse with the present "proposals" from the ARRL
to get the numbers up, which will create more "chaos" on the bands, IMO.
.
I can also understand why you might have gotten "fed up" with this crap,  after your experience as a youngster.
The 50`s(when I was a kid) was  a "kinder gentler HR" and this behavior was not
the "norm",  IMO.

In closing,-- am also at the point where I am ready to "call it quits", and/or "scale back"
and maybe even return to cw, and go back to having "fun" where their is still a bit
of "civility" with OT`s.

It`s too bad that many have bad experiences as newcomers, and thus either got "turned
off" and  never got on, or got out real quick because of some of this behavior.

I really believe this year will one that will be a "defining" year for HR,--"for better or worse". A lack of leadership from the "powers that be" that started years ago has contributed to this "mess", IMO.
                                             
                                          73, K1MVP
         

[W3SLK]

Rene said:

In closing,-- am also at the point where I am ready to "call it quits", and/or "scale back"
and maybe even return to cw, and go back to having "fun" where their is still a bit
of "civility" with OT`s.

Rene, there is still fun to be had. I still enjoy the QSO's on 160 meters. There isn't near the amount of garbage there as is on 75M. Frankly stated, people aren't going to go through the trouble of putting up an antenna system just to 'rain on everyone elses parade'. A for instance: last night while in a QSO with N3IBX, K2DK, & KK4AM, some sloppbucketeers snugged up tight against us creating some QRM. I quick fired up my ricebox, (yeah, I openly admit I have one), told the gentleman the situation. I use the term gentlemen in the real sense. He told me why he was there, (bumped from another freq) reduced his power and we try to slide a little lower. Everything was civil and I thanked them for that. So not everywhere you go will you find crap. I'm not saying the band is completely devoid of it but not to the extent of 75m. You will even find that kind of thing on CW also. I been there and done that.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

It always comes down to the glass half empty or half full thing, doesn't it? Ultimately, we define our own happiness/enjoyment. Letting others define it for you only means you'll be unhappy most of the time.

[K1JJ]

PMing is normal for this time of year. Usually I hear more guys wanting to give up the hobby, in disgust, than at any other time.

As everyone knows, these channel conflicts are much more frequent in the winter when the band is long. Especially now that the solar minima is here making the 75M/ 160M  band even longer -  and also bringing guys down from the dead higher bands to crowd in below.

In addition, you will notice there are many more conflicts in February and March as cabin fever peaks.  The combination of these four factors should make for all time big numbers in battles coming up, so be prepared to have lots of patience.

In contrast, during the late spring to fall, the frequencies are much quieter due to burn out, the local signals dominate the farther out stuff and things return to normal.  It won't be long before the big, local roundtables on 75M return and everyone is having so much fun this is all forgotten until next year...

T

[K1MVP]

It always comes down to the glass half empty or half full thing, doesn't it? Ultimately, we define our own happiness/enjoyment. Letting others define it for you only means you'll be unhappy most of the time.

Well there may be some "truth" to what you said about the glass being "half full"
or "half empty",--but many of us see the water in the glass as a bit "murky" or
"poluted" and to pretend that the water is "nice and clear" at this point amounts
"denial", IMO and many others, who view ham radio in today`s world.

You are also right in not letting others define "happiness" or the "state of affairs",
thats why I choose NOT to let the ARRL define the "reality" of ham radio today.

                                           73, K1MVP

P.S., --as far as "P" es Moaning,--I really DONT care what people think or call the
         "pointing out" of the reality anymore.--I used to, when I was a JN,--
          those days are gone.
P.P.S., the cw bands are looking more attractive to me every day,--may even
          have to "fire up" the little SB-200 on cw and put up a better antenna.
          I had originally got the 200 for use as an AM linear,--well, I just may have
          a "change in plans" due the the "changing enviroment","CAW--MAN"
          Man, I cant believe I said that!   

             

[Jeff OGM]

Quite some time ago, it occured to me that the reason ham radio doesn't attract more women is because it's half-duplex, ie- you have to listen all the way through the other person's transmission, and you can't interrupt...

Jeff
KA1OGM

[W1UJR]

Quite some time ago, it occured to me that the reason ham radio doesn't attract more women is because it's half-duplex, ie- you have to listen all the way through the other person's transmission, and you can't interrupt...

Jeff
KA1OGM

Eureka!
It took three pages, but finally now have the answer!!!!!!!!! 

[Glenn NY4NC]

Good point John!

I bet that many folks don't realize the "caw mann" expression we joke about is actually a reference to the on the air lingo used by fellow AM'er Jim N3JUH..... from Penis-el-vania!! 

Certainly a "subset" if ever there was one!......

Yeh, plenty of us use "caw mawn" etc in a humorous manner.  Too bad there are some that don't get the joke.  Of course the 'ultimate' ham radio insult is to say someone sounds like a CBer 

Nothing wrong with using ham radio jargon - hell, the AM community has its own subset - but saying "hi" instead of just laughing?  Caw mawnnnn....

[Bill, KD0HG]

Want some real insight?
I'm going to ask my two high school aged kids what they find both interesting and otherwise about ham radio. My son is the same age as I was when my HS science teacher loaned me a Knight CB set to listen on...And when my great aunt gave me on old tabletop BCB/SW receiver to play with. Both of which opened a new world for me. Neither of them have *any* interest at all in dad's hobby.

Hey, maybe receiver manufacturers need to stat putting SWBC back into their AM-FM radios?

I agree 100% with the notion that it's the challenge of any hobby or endeavor that attracts the best and brightest to it. Make it a "gimmee" like CB radio, and you just turned off the very kids that you want to attract.

A few days ago I attended the high school science fair that my daughter had a project on photosynthesis in. I was astonished at the wonderfully creative projects, research and ideas  these kids presented. More than a few were absolutely brilliant science projects, both well thought out and documented. There were a number of projects concerned with electricity and electromagnetism. Then you ask: "How do you spark an interest in Ham Radio?"

Where's a kid get a shortwave receiver today?
Not at the flea markets any more.
Not from Aunt Margaret.
How do you hang a wire antenna or VHF yagi in the 90% of today's housing developments that prohibit such things? Where do they find an Elmer when most of us old ham buzzards are buried with the daily responsibilities of life and work? How do you lure a kid off his media-rich internet-connected computer to a pile of radios?

It's not just ham radio, there's a whole bunch of hobbies and interests that just aren't being pursued any more in this 21st century..Who collects stamps? Model railroads, anyone?

Ah, I'm not being constructive...And rants aren't helpful either...
;-)

[w3jn]

For several years I was a judge at the southern MN regional science fair finals, and likewise was astounded at the quality of projects - most of these kids came from very small rural schools.  I must have judged 500 projects over the 3-4 years I did this, and not a single radio related project amongst them.

And that was back in 1984-88.

I really gotta dispute that things are getting "worse" on the ham bands.  As Derb pointed out, and anyone that's spent any time at all with a collection of QSTs from the 20s-30s-40s, there were people belching, cursing, and getting drunk on the air.  There were innumerable territorial and mode battles.  Anyone remember the slopbucket vs AM battles of the 50s and 60s?

It's more of the same as in the 1930s except the contestants are older and more bitter.

73 John

[K1MVP]

I really gotta dispute that things are getting "worse" on the ham bands.  As Derb pointed out, and anyone that's spent any time at all with a collection of QSTs from the 20s-30s-40s, there were people belching, cursing, and getting drunk on the air.  There were innumerable territorial and mode battles.  Anyone remember the slopbucket vs AM battles of the 50s and 60s?

It's more of the same as in the 1930s except the contestants are older and more bitter.

73 John

I find it really "interesting" that many who were not even on the air back in the 20`s
30`s, 40`s, 50`s and even 60`s can "attest" to the "fact" that things were just as
bad back then as they are now.
And all cause QST "said so",--well,--with the present situation with the ARRL, and
its "credibility", or "lack" of it nowadays, I would also question its "credibility" even in
the past.
So much for "politics",--even back then.
                                            73, K1MVP 

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Hmmmm. So the statements don't fit your viewpoint, disparage the source. Quite convenient. But, it wasn't just QST. The same stuff was in other radio mags of the time, most notably Radio. Also, much of what I've read in QST about the problems of that era were letters from hams, not QST/ARRL staff. If you want to claim these were fake or edited by QST, then the proof of such a claim is incumbent on you. Without such proof, I accept these statements as fact.

Otherwise, I must reject your memories of the 50's as false, and driven only by politics. Being obtuse can be very easy.

[wa2zdy]

My oldest son is almost 14 now and in 8th grade.  I was 13 and in 8th grade when I got my ticket.  He has absolutely ZERO interest in hamming, though he admits to curiosity about the code.  My 5 and 7 year olds like the idea of being on the radio, but of course they really don't understand waht hamming is about.

The magic, the mystique of radio is a big issue.  Even when I got my Novice in 1975, radio signals from far away were mysterious.  TV from across the big pond still had the little caption "live via satellite" on the screen. Now every other home has a satellite dish.   I remember having a 2m hand held in my pocket in the late 70s and it attracting honest curiosity and good questions.  Now every kid has an 832 chennel full-duplex digital transceiver in his or her pocket.  Folks knew what ham radio was back in 1975.  Now I bet most people have no clue what "shortwave" means.

The mystique is gone, technology has surpassed it and what we found magical is now every day. 

The age issue is valid.   When I was a Novice, at least half the contacts I made were with kids around my age.  Teenagers were on CW in the 40m Novice band.  Why?  Well, if you wanted to be on the air as a Novice, you got on CW.  It never occurred to any of us to question why we had to learn the code, we just did.  And most of us had fun.  I know I did.  31 years later I'm still almost exclusively on CW.

We live in a throwaway society.  Nothing gets fixed anymore.  So why should we expect kids today to learn how to do something nobody else does?  Nobody except hams for the most part anyway.  I fixed TVs in a TV shop when I was 15.  (I was in the company van on a road call when the radio came on and said Elvis was dead.)  Nobody fixes TVs now.  They swap boards and toss the old ones.

If I had the means and the room, I'd have some boatanchors here, probably be on AM with you guys some too.  I've NEVER cared for the sound of SSB.   So yeah, I'd be on with you and I'd be keeping my fingers in the tech stuff.  But not today's equipment.  Yeah, I have a ricebox - a Kenwood TS480. I confess I wouldn't even think of trying to fix it.  But I was busy, like everyone else, trying to finish college and feed my family when I could have been keeping up with technology.

I don't think it's really worth expecting most hams to know how to get deep into today's rigs, but when I realise most posters on qrz.com talk about the dipoles they bought, the G5RV that doesn't work and I realise that even something that simple has been dumbed down, we're past being in trouble.

Yes, ham radio will survive.  I've no doubt about that.  My question for the last 15 years or so has been "but will ham radio be a ham radio I will want to be part of when I'm old."  Due to my declining health I'm not likely to ever be OLD, but I still feel for those who will miss out on what could have been.

We will always have lots of licensees, but will we have enough hams?  I dunno.

Rant over!

[K1MVP]

Otherwise, I must reject your memories of the 50's as false, and driven only by politics. Being obtuse can be very easy.

Hmmm,--there is plenty of "obtuseness" at the top end of 75,on both AM
and "slopbucket" nowadays, IMO and many others.'
Reject my opinion all you want,--I stlll stand by my statement.
Where were you in the 50`s, and or 60`s?
Again,--you may look at the water glass as "half full" if you want,--but as I said
before,--it(the water) looks real "poluted" to many of us OT`s who used to drink
"clean water".
                                       73, MVP

P,S, --if the future looks "so great" in HR,--why is it there are only "minimal'
        comments in response to the bandwidth petitions with only about a week
        to go?--even with the ARRL "advertising" their "great proposal"?
        I happen to think the manner in which the ARRL is attempting to
        "jam down" these proposals is very "obtuse", or "political", IMO

P.P.S,--last count was only about 200 comments on the CTT proposal,
          and about 300 on the ARRL proposal,--sounds me like,
          a, Indifference, or apathy
          b, ignorance
          c, don`t care
          d, all of the above

          The same held true when it came to the license restructuring propsals,
          there were only about 800 comments to RM-10867 as I recall.
          Now with about 6 to 700,000 licensed hams,--I would call that a real
          "dismal" response,IMO,--or am I being just "political"?

                                            73, again
                   
 

[Glenn NY4NC]

You left out choice "E"...

Hams that feel their "comments" won't make a damn bit of difference in the end regarding an FCC decision.
Wishful thinking is nice but lets talk reality..do we know for a fact that these comments will influence the FCC's decision? I think this process is being confused with a vote, which it is not. If this was in fact a vote, I think you would see a much higher level of activity..

It's easy to brush this off as apathy, but as much as we don't want to believe it, this may just be the FCC going through the motions.... I don't believe anything will change...."Same as it ever was"

Yes, I filed my comments....

Rant over...

P,S, --if the future looks "so great" in HR,--why is it there are only "minimal'
        comments in response to the bandwidth petitions with only about a week
        to go?--even with the ARRL "advertising" their "great proposal"?
        I happen to think the manner in which the ARRL is attempting to
        "jam down" these proposals is very "obtuse", or "political", IMO

P.P.S,--last count was only about 200 comments on the CTT proposal,
          and about 300 on the ARRL proposal,--sounds me like,
          a, Indifference, or apathy
          b, ignorance
          c, don`t care
          d, all of the above

          The same held true when it came to the license restructuring propsals,
          there were only about 800 comments to RM-10867 as I recall.
          Now with about 6 to 700,000 licensed hams,--I would call that a real
          "dismal" response,IMO,--or am I being just "political"?

                                            73, again
                   
 

[John Holotko]

Quite some time ago, it occured to me that the reason ham radio doesn't attract more women is because it's half-duplex, ie- you have to listen all the way through the other person's transmission, and you can't interrupt...

Jeff
KA1OGM

Eureka!
It took three pages, but finally now have the answer!!!!!!!!! 

Not if we let them operate full duplex. Then they'll feel right at home.

[Jeff OGM]

John said, "Not if we let them operate full duplex. Then they'll feel right at home."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, John, even full duplex won't do the trick, since other people can listen in...

Jeff
KA1OGM

[K1MVP]

John said, "Not if we let them operate full duplex. Then they'll feel right at home."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, John, even full duplex won't do the trick, since other people can listen in...

Jeff
KA1OGM

I always thought that that was the "whole idea" of ham radio, --to be able to
"listen in and talk to the world", and as such was NOT a private phone line last I knew, anyway.
 
Heck, even this am-forum is not "private" and many "tune in" just like radio.
If I want "privacy",--I will use my telephone, or e-mail someone directly, although
with present day "hackers",--that privacy is even questionable, as far as I know.

                                     73, K1MVP

[John Holotko]

John said, "Not if we let them operate full duplex. Then they'll feel right at home."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, John, even full duplex won't do the trick, since other people can listen in...

Jeff
KA1OGM

I always thought that that was the "whole idea" of ham radio, --to be able to
"listen in and talk to the world", and as such was NOT a private phone line last I knew, anyway.
 
Heck, even this am-forum is not "private" and many "tune in" just like radio.
If I want "privacy",--I will use my telephone, or e-mail someone directly, although
with present day "hackers",--that privacy is even questionable, as far as I know.

                                     73, K1MVP

Email is anything but private. When you send an email from point A to point B it often "hops" from machine to machine leaving a trail that can be read along the way. One of my duties at work is a systems/network administration  in which I have access to all the mail spools. As a matter of principle I wouldn;t do this but, if I wanted to I could read any incoming or outgoing mail passing through our servers. Additionally all the incoming and outgoing mail is archived and retianed for years. 5 or 6  years from now someone could read a email that  someone sent through our system today.  best way to reduce the liklihood of emails being read by anyone other than the person they were intended for is to use some type o9f encryption like PGP.

Most "private" type  communication is a hand written message hand delivered directly to the intended person or, meeting with the person directly and  talking to them in private.