FLASH Cuscraft Has A New 160M vert

[flintstone mop]

OK my friends,
I just received notice that Cushcraft will have a new product out that is similar to their 80 and 40M vert. (MA8040) The latest is the MA160V. The price??
Its a 36 foot tall structure that has a loading coil at the top and a capacity hat. It looks very interesting for a short vertical. It comes with 400 feet of radial wire and a type of black Dacron guy rope.
What are the bets that it is a $600 aerial???
I'm gonna try my inverted L at the new location for this Winter and see what happens. The SSB contest at the end of Feb is the acid test.
There's a beautiful HUGE vacant field next to me and I'm sure that any antenna can breathe better in a big open space, compared to a casmall city lot.
Later..............Fred
Progress at MOP radio is hopefully near the end of September to be on the air.
I'm feeling a lot better and the "old me" seems to be back. Ready to rock n roll again

[Jim, W5JO]

Well the sun is shining in Oklahoma because of your progress Fred.

 

[WA1GFZ]

Fred,
I'm confused have you fixed your first unhappy antenna?

[K1JJ]

[quote I just received notice that Cushcraft will have a new product out that is similar to their 80 and 40M vert. (MA8040) The latest is the MA160V. The price??
Its a 36 foot tall structure that has a loading coil at the top and a capacity hat. It looks very interesting for a short vertical. It comes with 400 feet of radial wire and a type of black Dacron guy rope.
Later..............Fred

400' of wire is only about THREE quarter wave radials on 160M.  Coupled to a 1/16th wave vertical?  - naw, I don't think so.

Your full sized wire inverted L is a much better bet. Put out as many radials as you can in that clear lot.  A clear shot for many wavelengths is important to actually see any low angle energy.  Obviously if you have the property to get up an inverted L on 160M, you have no reason to put up a "mobile whip" and suffer...

Hope to catch ya on in the Fall, OM.

T

[flintstone mop]

Ya Tom,
I agree. A full fledged aerial out there with some space is a much better way to go. Around $100 was spent for 200 feet of "L" wire and $100 for 4000 feet of "radial wire" from "WorlWideWire" should make a serious presence on 160M. The cool WX that's been here for the last week has been soooo nice. Getting more done now that the 90+ crap is gone.
Later...............Fred

[kc2ifr]

Tom,
I think this antenna is aimed at the ham who does not have the room for a full sized anything not to mention a gazillion bucks and all the time in the world to work on antennas.
JMO

[K1JJ]

Tom,
I think this antenna is aimed at the ham who does not have the room for a full sized anything not to mention a gazillion bucks and all the time in the world to work on antennas.
JMO

Hey Bill,

BITE ME!!!

Read it again and you will see that MOP has room for a full sized 160M antenna, so why screw wid a mobile whip? My advice to HIM still stands.

I don't have a gadzillion bux, but do have all the time in the whirl to work on antennas... what of it?

T

[kc2ifr]

A little touchy are we? My point was the simple fact that the AVERAGE ham has restrictions.......your advice to mop was fine.....I was not talking about him..........read my post.....I was talking about the AVERAGE ham......somethig u seem to forget about. I fully understand your status in the AM world..........MSDS and all that shit...BUT.......some folks dont have that status Tom. I know Ill still talk to them.....reguardless of what kind of antenna they have!!! Stop taking yourself so seriously.......and enjoy the hobby.

[K1JJ]

A little touchy are we? My point was the simple fact that the AVERAGE ham has restrictions.......your advice to mop was fine.....I was not talking about him..........read my post.....I was talking about the AVERAGE ham......somethig u seem to forget about. I fully understand your status in the AM world..........MSDS and all that shit...BUT.......some folks dont have that status Tom. I know Ill still talk to them.....reguardless of what kind of antenna they have!!! Stop taking yourself so seriously.......and enjoy the hobby.

Bill, you and your inferiority complex status stuff. Grow up. You're insulting the wrong guy and I take THAT seriously. 

Off hand, I cannot remember you helping anyone on this forum... just complaining and insulting people here and on the air. If you have a sense of security problem with yourself, don't take it out on me.  I've put in the time here and on the air to help whomever needs help and info with regards to antennas and rigs, and I'm proud of the fact that I build and put every ounce of effort into them. Other guys may take your shit, but I have drawn the line.

I tell it like it is regarding antennas from personal experience.  Let's see YOU get in here once in awhile and give some advice and take the shots as many of us have.

T

[W2INR]

Bill

Your post in response to Toms' recommendations to Fred was off topic and frankly carried what is perceived to be a personnal shot.

We all have agreed to abide by the rules and regs of this site. Bill, personnal attacks are not in anyones best interest and you have agreed to not engage in personnal attacks when you regisitered.

I expect you to stand by your word as well as everyone else.

This particular tangent is done, back to the original thrust of this thread.

Fred I hope you get the info you need.

G

Sorry John I think I deleted your response Om - - - Mistake!!

[kc2ifr]

Jeesss Tom,
I was just pulling your chain...sorry. But my point about most hams not having the room for a full size 160 antenna still stands.I am forced to use an 80 meter antenna on 160 and it works a little better than expected. I know your a big DX operator and thats fine but not my cup of tea. I enjoy talking to the "local" hams. Even if I had the room and the bucks for a big "proper" antenna, I still would talk to local folks......DX does not interest me at all.
Finally as far a busting on someone.......a while back I posted the fact that I use a RE-27 mic that I paid $460 for. Steve...the huz man busted on me for that for quite a while..even making fun of the mic AND the fact that I would pay that kind of money for a "ham" mic.
As Gary once told me....if u cant take a little good natured busting......than AM is not for me. So dont take it personally Tom and dont forget....Im the founding father of the "MSDS" group!!!!
Bill

[Glenn NY4NC]

I've done my share of experimenting with short verticals and for 160m, you probably don't need a loading coil at all. You just need a big enough capacitive top hat.

Formula for effective, cheap 160m vertical;

Radio Shack 50ft TV push-up mast
Radio Shack light weight 10ft TV mast
Homebrew hinged Base insulator made with two pieces of plexiglass
Spool of medium gauge dacron rope for guying
Spool of cheap as possible radial wire

Attach the 10ft mast to the top of the push-up mast. You now have a 60ft vertical. Extend the push-up mast sections on the ground. Bond each section together with 12ga wire jumpers using stainless steel hardware. Attach three, 25ft top hat wires with insulators and guy ropes on the ends, to the top of the vertical. Attach a set of three guy wires at the 40ft point. Get three friends to help you raise it, anchor the guy ropes,  anchor the rope ends of the top hat wires as uniformly spaced from each other as possible, at an angle greater than 45deg with respect to the vertical.
Besides capacitive loading, the top hat wires also provide guying for the top half of the vertical.

There you have it... you can use a simple L network at the base for matching to coax. Oh yea, of course, add as many radials as possible. If you use a series capacitor at the base, you can also use the Antenna on 80 and 40 meters as well.

I've constructed this antenna more than once over the years, always on a small lot. It plays very well!!  it's cheap and best of all it's homebrew!! 







 

[K1JJ]

I've done my share of experimenting with short verticals and for 160m, you probably don't need a loading coil at all. You just need a big enough capacitive top hat.

Attach the 10ft mast to the top of the push-up mast. You now have a 60ft vertical. Extend the push-up mast sections on the ground.

Yep, right on  Glenn, an 1/8th wave vertical with a capacity hat instead of a loading coil is VERY close to a full sized 1/4 wave in performance!  As you said, the ground system needs to be of low resistance too.

There is a guy down in the 75M DX window who runs a four square of "shortie" 1/8th wave verticals. Similar to what you described, but only 33' high for 75M.  He is consistantly hearing as well as the guys with Beverages and Yagis into Europe. Modeling backs that up. His system has cornvinced me that is is possible with 1/8th wave. But much shorter than 1/8 wave and the input impedances start to get so low that you now need a super ground plane to keep up wid losses. Something approaching salt water would work FB with 1/16th wave verticals.

But as we know, if a vertical's input impedance is down around 10 ohms, and the ground system is at 10 ohms, then there is an automatic 3db loss to the worms.

I think it was W2FMI? who did a QST article using 40M verticals that stood maybe 5' tall?  but had huge capacity hats. His data showed them to be quite efficient. But, like all verticals, the area around them for many wavelengths need to be clear of obstructions, esp houses, or the big advantage of low angle radiation is snuffed. It's hard to believe, but verticals need MANY times more space than high dipoles and Yagis to do the equivalent low angle thang.

T

[w3jn]

Sorry John I think I deleted your response Om - - - Mistake!!

Not a problem, G - it added little to the discussion anyway 

73 John

[Glenn NY4NC]

Hi Tom;

You have good memory! must be the fresh sushi  Yes, W2FMI, Jerry something or other i think..
interesting stuff that tiny Elvis vertical.

"Ah Yes, the old ground resistance ploy" (inspector Clouseau).... I wonder what the ground conductivity is here in New Yack, never bothered to measure it. I was in QSO with Tron one night and I mentioned moving to North Carolina, where it's mostly red clay. He commented that clay has relatively high conductivity. I hope he's right!!!! 

Yep, right on  Glenn, an 1/8th wave vertical with a capacity hat instead of a loading coil is VERY close to a full sized 1/4 wave in performance!  As you said, the ground system needs to be of low resistance too.

[K1JJ]

Yeah, the North Carolina boys seem to do exceptionally well with their 4-square verticals down there.  Maybe the red clay is the reason. I used to work alongside a few of them holding court into Eu on 75M and even though they had a second hop, some heard pretty well.

Another area that stands out is the UK. Many of the Brits have big vertical arrays and are as loud as their Yagi counterparts on 75M. One guy has up EIGHT verticals in 2 four squares side by side.  UK pasture land is the best, just like in parts of Wisconson, etc.

I was trhinking with all that new beautiful property you have in NC, with cleared land for a long ways....   How about eight, 33' aluminum poles spaced 62' apart each, in a big square. Staple down to the ground a matrix of radials underneath. It takes less wire to do a matrix than individual radials.  Then get one of those commercial toroidal switcher boxes. I'll tell ya, from NC to New England seemed to be a perfect first hop, considering the W4's who ran them had big f-b ratios and their sigs were as loud or louder than  dipoles, depending upon the night.

You could cover the whole USA in any direction, SA, Eu... wow.  Add a dipole at 60' to handle the local stuff and you're golden.  33' verts using tapered alum need no guy ropes...  Just clamp each to a PVC pipe that sits over a metal pipe pounded into the ground.  Use a coil at the base, OR some guys use wire of the proper length as the guys, broken up with an insulator, then rope, to form a three wire capacity hat!  [caw mawn]

T

[ve6pg]

...experimenting with antennas is great fun,if you have the room,or not. unfortunately i think these commercial antennas are aimed not so much at hams with lots of money or little time,BUT rather the hams who have no idea what they are doing. they could'nt imagine doing some math,trying to design something for their property,or coming here to ask some questions.  ..sk..

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

IFR Wrote:

"Finally as far a busting on someone.......a while back I posted the fact that I use a RE-27 mic that I paid $460 for. Steve...the huz man busted on me for that for quite a while..even making fun of the mic AND the fact that I would pay that kind of money for a "ham" mic.
As Gary once told me....if u cant take a little good natured busting......than AM is not for me. So dont take it personally Tom and dont forget....Im the founding father of the "MSDS" group!!!!
Bill"

This is absolutely not true. First the thread was not even started by you and it was not about RE27s. It was about the EqPlus produced by W2IHY. It was started by Jack, KA3ZLR. I never made fun of you personally, or anyone else for owning an RE27. In fact my original comment was this,

"I also think much of the high-end pro-audio and broadcast processors (e.g. Orban 9000s and such), and high-end mics are a poor value proposition. Is this stuff good and does it work well? You bet. Will it make you sound hundreds or thousands of dollars better than the less expensive stuff or as Tom pointed out, little or no processing? Not in my opinion. Therefore they represent a poor value proposition."

As you can see, I never mentioned the RE27. It was your subsequent post that brought up the RE27 specifically.

Later I said it was a good sounding mic but in my opinion, did not represent a good value proposition for amateur radio use. That's it. The fact you took my opinion of an inanimate object personally is your problem bro. Don't try to lay that load off on me.

For the record, your on-the-air audio sounds good. If you are happy with the RE27 great. We both agree it sounds good. Can we disagree on its position in the value continuum without going personal?

Read the entire thread here.

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=4520.msg34276#msg34276

[Glenn NY4NC]

Whoa! that would be a big project! but possible if the land was cleared, but it's mostly wooded with big mawl pine trees. Fortunately, in the interest blowing a big signal up to New England AM gangsta land, (and on to Europe) there is a 2 acre wheat grass field directly in front of the house facing due north with no obstructions, but I don't think I want to stick 8 aluminum poles in my front yard. Maybe in the future I'll try a four square array, but I'll start with a single 60ft vertical, a beverage for receiving and a pair of phased inverted vee's for closer in work.

I was thinking with all that new beautiful property you have in NC, with cleared land for a long ways....   How about eight, 33' aluminum poles spaced 62' apart each, in a big square. Staple down to the ground a matrix of radials underneath. It takes less wire to do a matrix than individual radials.  Then get one of those commercial toroidal switcher boxes. I'll tell ya, from NC to New England seemed to be a perfect first hop, considering the W4's who ran them had big f-b ratios and their sigs were as loud or louder than  dipoles, depending upon the night.

You could cover the whole USA in any direction, SA, Eu... wow.  Add a dipole at 60' to handle the local stuff and you're golden.  33' verts using tapered alum need no guy ropes...  Just clamp each to a PVC pipe that sits over a metal pipe pounded into the ground.  Use a coil at the base, OR some guys use wire of the proper length as the guys, broken up with an insulator, then rope, to form a three wire capacity hat!  [caw mawn]

T