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Author Topic: Ham refuses USAF aircraft on emergency net  (Read 36430 times)
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John Holotko
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« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2005, 01:42:10 PM »

As far as the lowlifes who are raping, shooiting,  or stealing tv sets, computers etc. well, that is just plain wrong. Yet, a rational thinking person can clearly see the difference between that type of  crime and let's say a man who  takes some baby formula to feed his child or a woman who takes a vial of insulin to keep her grandmother alive,  or  someone taking a bottle of clean drinking water.. It is also important to realize that most of the rapists and shooters are likely a relatively small but yet very visible minority down there.

What I  find most amazing that in what is probably  the worst diaster in US history  where virtually an entire city is destroyed there is such a focus on a minority of "bad guys" and such a priority on judging the  masses of  people criminals and condemning them as "iirresponsible" when the focal thought should be about helping these people survive this tragedy .


John, I'll say this and then I'll leave this thread alone.

First, this is a terrible tragedy, aside from 9-11, the worse tragedy of my lifetime.

However, unlike 9-11, not all the folks there are victims.

Quote
John, you express surprise at "the focus" on the bad guys.
Why are you surprised? Of course the nation is surprised and shocked the behavior of these folks; it deviates from the acceptable moral values and norms of the majority of fellow citizens. Most Americans do not loot, shoot at police and medical workers, rape and pillage during natural disasters. Such is beastly behavior being carried out in New Orleans by beasts that should be shot down. It reminds me of the madness and mindless savagery of the LA riots.
{/quote]

Most Americans are not shooting at medical workers or raping. But from the response of the media  and right wing talking propaganda heads like O'Reilly one would thing the victims are all a bunch of criminals who deserve what they are getting. Fortuately most sensible Americans have the sense to know better. Apparently some don't

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The government warned for more than 2 days, on radio, TV and other public media, the need to evac, it was "mandatory", not an option, not a suggestion, not a good idea. As for transportation, public transport was available, plenty of it. There were options, don’t left Jesse Jackson and his ilk deceive you. As Bill O’Rielly pointed out last night, there is a significantly sized element that stayed just to raise havoc, chaos, loot, shoot and take advantage of the situation. In ironic poetic justice many of those became victims themselves.

Again, maybe you need to look beyong Bill  O'Reilly and  his ilk for your informatiuon. There was no transportation nor contingency plan. many of  the people were trapped unable to leavc.
O'Reilly is lying to you Bruce.

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Speaking of deception just saw the “Reverend” Jackson on CNN saying that the response was slow because the victims are poor and black. The "Reverend" even went so far as to compare the situation in New Orleans to the 246 years of suffering slavery. Once again the "Masters of Deception" play the race card, distracting from the work at hand. Note to “Reverend” Jackson, hurricanes and tropical storms are color-blind.

Maybe Jesse jackson is making a viable observation about priorities. Did that ever occur to you ? Why in all these years was  nothing done to repair and shore up the levee's and dykes in that area. When the president said "nobody anticipated  such a disater" he was lying. This exact disaster was predicted time and time again by scientists, metiorologists, reporters and many others and these findings were  presented to the presidents and others. Instead  Bush chose to cut money  that would have gone to shore up that very infrastructure.  Jesse jackson is asking a very important question. If that area were prediominantly wealthy, white filled with fancy marina's,  country clubs and  golf courses would nothing have been done and money been cut ?
A very logical and legitimate question regarding  priorities

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God forbid, what did we do 5 or 50 years ago before FEMA? Americans came together, took personal responsibility and pulled themselves up by the bootstraps. Even today my staff was taking exactly that. The consensus was if this is the best the government can do with a disaster in a moderate size city with two days warning, what are they going to do in the event of an unplanned terrorist attack on a major metropolitan area?

This is one point you raised that I can agree with. But that doesn;tlet the government off the hook. People live in cities,  they hasve to work, they have no  choice,  that'slife in the modern world. When government is aware of potential problems they should be doing what they can to assure public safety. that is what we pay them for. that is what we  elect presidents for. And they failed miserably/

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Do those folks need help, you bet! They deserve every thing we can give them as a nation. However, if there is a lesson to be learned here, and everything is a teaching experience, it is NOT to depend on the government, local, state or federal to bail you out in the event of a disaster. Be prepared and heed warnings.

The reality is that people were prepared and  they did heed warning. If you  choose to believe they decided to stay and enjoy the storm then so be it. But the relaity is that many could not  get out in time.


[qoote]
My point John, interesting how it drew you out, was that instead of just taking care of themselves, so many of victims are stuck in a stimulus-response mode, just like Pavlov’s dogs. They can’t or won’t seem to fend for themselves, the point I was making was that this was a result of decades of breeding out personal independence and responsibility. It is a state which psychologists term “learned helplessness”. I can think of no greater injustice and more evil lie to teach people. Political leades and "Masters of Deception" have stolen these folk's sense of self-worth and independence and replaced it with the enslavement of dependence. Most egregious of all, this has been done largely for political reasons, to consolidate power, by those on both sides of the aisle. The “Masters of Deception” are again at work here, blaming it on the race card, the “evil” Bush administration for not raising the level of the levies, the slow response of FEMA because the victims are poor and black, anything to divide and conquer and not deal with the real problem, a natural disaster of near biblical proportion

The people primarily responsible for 'divding and conquering" in this situation are propaganda hacks like O'reilly and the administration itself who wants to throw the blame for the slow reponse, lack of preparedness, and failure  to  repair the aging and inadequate infrastructure on the victims themselves and or perpetrate  the myth that "liberal  dependence" lies at the root of the problem. If you don;t understand why I don;t  have the time nor space here to teach it. People did what they could under the circumstances  and now they are in trouble and they realize  the government they traust and paid taxes to let them down and are now questioning the competance of those who were put into office. And under the circusmtances it's a very viable quation that will probably be asked more and more.



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Jim, W5JO
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« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2005, 03:13:18 PM »

Jim, thiose who are not dead are quite greatfull. They are greatfull for their lives. Some are in such misery they probably  wish they were dead. The bottom line is people are desperate. They are in crisis. They have no food, no drinkable water. It''s not easy for  people to smile, feel high and chipper when they are  up to their necks in filthy water, are watching themselves and their families dying of thirst, have no food, no medicine and have no place to even go to the toilet as they watch the dead carcasses  of their neighbors float  by them. It's easy for press people and  others to sit in comfotable air conditions  homes and offices miles away from the reality of this disaster and judge people as looters, criminals, ungreatful welfare recipients, portray the masses of people as rapists, shooters , etc because of  the actions of a few lowlife bums. At the same time who am I to judge a person walking out of a supermarket with bottled water  or some food or medicine as a "looter" or "criminal". For all I know he is simply doing what he has to do to keep himself  and his family  alive, i.e. survive. Heck, under similar circumstances I might do the same darned thing if the life of my family and neighbors was at stake. What I am saying is that people need help, dire help  and we as a  nation have  an obligation to set  our partisan left versus right views down, to set  aside our prejudgement and condemnation of people aside and give these people every bit of help we can to get them through this in every way we can.

John, we both see the same thing but interpert it differently.  First I see people stealing everthing and I have a hard time understanding how one can eat a TV set or a Stereo?  How can one eat a gun, bullets or tennis shoes, watches, rings and other such items?

We both see the same thing, people in need, and criminal, looters.  I choose to believe the looters and criminals are threatning the survival of those who are not and are more numerous than you believe.  While my words paint a picture of the entire bunch are criminals to you, I assure I do not believe that.  Your words to me paint a picture that these incidents are not happening except in very limited cases, also not true. 

Ffools rush in where angles fear to tread.  The actions of those who are carjacking where there is no fuel, looting items of no practical value in a disaster, stealig from others trapped, then have the unmitigated gall to shoot at rescue personne, is despicable and delayed the rescue of good citizens.  Rescue the good with the threat of retribution to the criminals and leave the criminals to prey on themselves.  Or when the authorities can, arrest the criminals and put them under the prison

l
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John Holotko
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« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2005, 04:41:15 PM »

Jim, thiose who are not dead are quite greatfull. They are greatfull for their lives. Some are in such misery they probably  wish they were dead. The bottom line is people are desperate. They are in crisis. They have no food, no drinkable water. It''s not easy for  people to smile, feel high and chipper when they are  up to their necks in filthy water, are watching themselves and their families dying of thirst, have no food, no medicine and have no place to even go to the toilet as they watch the dead carcasses  of their neighbors float  by them. It's easy for press people and  others to sit in comfotable air conditions  homes and offices miles away from the reality of this disaster and judge people as looters, criminals, ungreatful welfare recipients, portray the masses of people as rapists, shooters , etc because of  the actions of a few lowlife bums. At the same time who am I to judge a person walking out of a supermarket with bottled water  or some food or medicine as a "looter" or "criminal". For all I know he is simply doing what he has to do to keep himself  and his family  alive, i.e. survive. Heck, under similar circumstances I might do the same darned thing if the life of my family and neighbors was at stake. What I am saying is that people need help, dire help  and we as a  nation have  an obligation to set  our partisan left versus right views down, to set  aside our prejudgement and condemnation of people aside and give these people every bit of help we can to get them through this in every way we can.

John, we both see the same thing but interpert it differently.  First I see people stealing everthing and I have a hard time understanding how one can eat a TV set or a Stereo?  How can one eat a gun, bullets or tennis shoes, watches, rings and other such items?

 In almost every single naturaly disaster that has occurred in the history of the US there was public disorder and crime. In the Johnstown floods there was crime and looting. In the great hurricane that smashed  through New England there was looting and crime on the streets of cities and towns. In places ravaged by fire, tornadoes, titdal waves, in plane crashes, etc there has been crime, looting and other despicable behavior. But  when we look back upon those events we don't focus on the crime and looting and proclaim that the victims are criminals. Yet in this incident for some strange reason some people seem to have made it (crime) the central focus of the entire event and have used  it to largely stereotype the victims of this calamity and brand them as lawless criminals. I have even heard some go so far as to claim that the reason there are so many victims is because many of them deliberately stayed behing just so they could sieze the opportunity to rob, cheat,  steal, loot, rape, and shoot.  I am not saying anyone on this board has these feeling but, these are the kinds of vibes I am picking up listening to some of the conservative  right-wing media talking heads and those who talk to them. That is what I find appalling.
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Jim, W5JO
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« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2005, 07:02:09 PM »

The able bodied criminals did stay and the storm made criminals out of honest citizens..  My question remains unanswered.  Where were the assetts available to the mayor?  the Sheriff?  The city Council?  The State Legislature?  The Governor?  They not only failed to act, but did not request assistance.  One call to Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri, or any other state would have had the National Guard ready, remember they had 3, count'em three days, warning.  What did they do?  Sit on their thumb and forefinger.  They could have had busses from as far away as Shereveport in there picking up people prior to the storm, and that is in their own state.

Poor planning, poor execution, poor response and blame others.  This is what the "conserative talking heads" are speaking about and the others are avoiding.  Many Americans, not having been involved in something this massive, cannot understand what is being said.  The Pelosis, Kennedys, Leheys, Schumers and other assorted populists would not understand for they do not comprehend history nor care as long as they can buy their way into power with votes of the common people.   Sadly people who have never seen the destructioon of nature agree with them and continue to cast a vote in their favor.  I certainly hope we never experience a mad made disaster such as a "dirty bomb".

Tell me John, have you ever witnessed what a simple tornado can do?  This tornado was over 150  miles wide and over 400 miles long.  That is a lot, and here we are debating about New Orleans, where the planning and execution of a disaster plan (that did not exhist) failed.  I am just appreciative that I don't live in a state so guilty of corruption and stupidity.  Although now that I think of it, Oklahoma is not far behind. Grin

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Jim, W5JO
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« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2005, 07:08:43 PM »

By the way John:


Al Oubre K5DPG, Acting SEC for Louisiana, asks this resource request be
made known throughout the West Gulf and Delta Divisions.


We are still recruiting Amateur Radio operators for Washington parish
and Covington LA (North end of the Lake Ponchartrain causeway).

Some of the tasks in this area are to provide Amateur Radio
communications support for Red Cross shelters and Southern Baptist
Convention Disaster Relief efforts (mass feeding and chain saw debris
removal crews) in the area of Covington LA.  Communications is expected
to be tactical voice, perhaps portable, maybe mobile, on VHF/UHF FM.
HF voice (40 & 75M) and Winlink are additional desired capabilities for
all assignments.

Volunteer facilities are anticipated to become available at First
Baptist church in Covington (16333 Highway 1085) include:  shower
trailer (with towels), kitchen, and sleeping in the gym or classrooms.
You will need your own air mattress, sleeping pad, cot, and bedding.
It may have air conditioning some time this weekend.  Conditions at
specific assignments may be primitive.

It is highly unlikely that you will be reimbursed for any expenses.

Please let me know of your interest.  Rather than individual e-mails,
register here and put COVINGTON LA as the first entry in the comments
block, followed by your expected date and time of arrival and
departure:    katrina.ab2m.net   Please use this method even if you
have previously registered at the site.

Jerry Reimer, KK5CA
ARES Section Emergency Coordinator
ARRL South Texas Section




Why don't you volunteer?
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wa1knx
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« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2005, 07:48:18 PM »

First,
        been battling a spyware pain in the butt,, think I have it under control now..

       my gal has a grand baby, son & daughter in law who live in down town new orleans!  but they made it out before Katrina hit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- whew - their place was not far from the canal, maybe flooded we don't know ? ?

anyone at all involved with the emergency traffic in here?  I tried but can't get in from here in vt, at least on 75mtrs  . .
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am forever!
Jim, W5JO
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« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2005, 08:17:53 PM »

[quote author=wa1knx link=topic=5515.msg41471#msg41471 dat

       my gal has a grand baby, son & daughter in law who live in down town new orleans!  but they made it out before Katrina hit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- whew - their place was not far from the canal, maybe flooded we don't know ? ?

anyone at all involved with the emergency traffic in here?  I tried but can't get in from here in vt, at least on 75mtrs  . .
Quote

Which Canal?  If it is 17th street, the house is probably underwater.  I have yet to hear anyone in NO but, as of last afternoon, there was a station in Slidell.
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w3jn
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« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2005, 08:46:55 PM »

So... what does everyone think about the ham who refused the USAF C-130  Huh Huh Huh
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GEORGE/W2AMR
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« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2005, 08:58:53 PM »

So... what does everyone think about the ham who refused the USAF C-130  Huh Huh Huh
It's Bush's fault.   Grin
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W1UJR
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« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2005, 09:05:01 PM »

,
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W1UJR
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« Reply #60 on: September 03, 2005, 09:07:45 PM »

So... what does everyone think about the ham who refused the USAF C-130  Huh Huh Huh
It's Bush's fault.   Grin


I knew it!  Cheesy
George, you are just too predicatable.

John, in answer to your question, I think the ham was a ass and made a very stupid decision.
And a even more stupid one to boast about it on QRZ.


From Hamsexy.com
Thursday, September 1st, 2005 at 7:23 pm by VE3HBD

I’m sure you’re expecting to see Clyde’s “Ham told an Air Force C-130 to go fly a kite” story here. Well, the situation has changed, so our story has changed.

KC2KIT, a good friend of Hamsexy and a player on the related thread on QRZ.COM has spoken to Anthony W8ANT about this matter. In their telephone conversation, W8ANT stepped to the plate and not only explained his actions, but apologized for the miscommunication and for his comments to KC2KIT. We here at Hamsexy admire W8ANT’s ability to be humble and recognize when they make a mistake (something that is lacking in this hobby), so we in turn would like to thank Anthony for doing the right thing in this situation.

We removed the article in this space not out of some sort of attempt at censorship (this isn’t the site for that), but to show our appreciation and thanks.

ANy further comments on this issue are appreciated, and we thank KC2KIT for helping us with this issue.

Take care all!

- Bryan VE3HBD, editor HAMSEXY.COM
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w3jn
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« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2005, 10:05:08 AM »

So... what does everyone think about the ham who refused the USAF C-130  Huh Huh Huh
It's Bush's fault.   Grin

Why did I see that coming...?  Kiss
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2005, 01:12:32 PM »

So... what does everyone think about the ham who refused the USAF C-130  Huh Huh Huh

He just got his 1X3, W8ANT, changed to one of those new-fangled 2 X 2 callsigns.

Click here for thread he initiated on the subject, on QRZ.com.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
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WWW
« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2005, 04:59:07 PM »

You have to give this guy credit for doing something his trainers could not. He was man enough to put the situation out in the light for the benifit of the next net control.
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