Maximizing and Preserving AM Spectrum!

[W1IA]

It has become clear that as we are all gentlemen and we operate in accordance with the A.M. gentlemen's agreement; I am calling to all to make full use of the A.M. broken window 20 KHZ from 3870-3890KHZ.

A sad trend is being set with further disregard and contempt for those of us that hold A.M. to our hearts. Yes we all know that legally all phone modes (specifically SSB) can operate within the set aside 20 KHZ, but does this make it right?

I have made attempts to talk with a couple of the NET controls of the groups operating in the window, only to be met with cold and disdainfull animosity.

I purpose that groups operate every 5-6KHZ from 3871 to 3889KHZ. Perhaps not as comfortable as we would like, but affording enough room to make a decent round-table with minimal side-channel interference.

Take the time and dust off that transmitter and join me with the "No-Net Net" anywhere within the A.M. window. I have made it my goal to maximize the enjoyment of our beloved mode and preserve this small corner of the band by simply turning on the transmitter and operating.
If there is 4 or more ops on the same A.M. freq...lets split up and move around the window and OCCUPY this spectrum. This makes it easier for some of the lower power stations to get in on a QSO without SSB interference and have a chance to operate.


Your Inquirer Admin,

Brent(Tina) W1IA

[Jim, W5JO]

commendable Brent and I support you.  I have troubles with some 4 land SSB stations on 3.878 every afternoon and evening.  Many times in the past they have even shifted to USB to maximize the interference and gone so far as to zero beat us on 3.880.  If you can get that rat's nest cleared out, then everyone on the East coast and Central States would have less trouble,

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

It has become clear that as we are all gentlemen and we operate in accordance with the A.M. gentlemen's agreement; I am calling to all to make full use of the A.M. broken window 20 KHZ from 3870-3890KHZ.

A sad trend is being set with further disregard and contempt for those of us that hold A.M. to our hearts. Yes we all know that legally all phone modes (specifically SSB) can operate within the set aside 20 KHZ, but does this make it right?

I have made attempts to talk with a couple of the NET controls of the groups operating in the window, only to be met with cold and disdainfull animosity.

I purpose that groups operate every 5-6KHZ from 3871 to 3889KHZ. Perhaps not as comfortable as we would like, but affording enough room to make a decent round-table with minimal side-channel interference.

Take the time and dust off that transmitter and join me with the "No-Net Net" anywhere within the A.M. window. I have made it my goal to maximize the enjoyment of our beloved mode and preserve this small corner of the band by simply turning on the transmitter and operating.
If there is 4 or more ops on the same A.M. freq...lets split up and move around the window and OCCUPY this spectrum. This makes it easier for some of the lower power stations to get in on a QSO without SSB interference and have a chance to operate.


Your Inquirer Admin,

Brent(Tina) W1IA

Well Done Brent...

[Herb K2VH]

I'm with you, Brent.  It is beyond me why such people as those who "run" the Marconi Net insist on being in this narrow area to which most of us restrict ourselves.  On the other hand, why DO we restrict ourselves to this area?  At any rate, I'll be looking for you and others in the 3870-3890 slot.  Then I am sure there will be "pissing and moaning."  Too Bad!

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I'm with you, Brent.  It is beyond me why such people as those who "run" the Marconi Net insist on being in this narrow area to which most of us restrict ourselves.  On the other hand, why DO we restrict ourselves to this area?

Whose fault is that?? VFO and receiver knobs were made to turn.

[Herb K2VH]

Right Pete.  Even if you're wrong, your're right.

[Ed KB1HVS]

The great day came December 12th,1901 on a winter-swept hill outside St. Johns Newfoundland.  There three men- Guglielmo Marconi, G.S. Kemp and P.W. Paget - confidently but tensely adjusted their apparatus, which was connected to a very long wire dangling from a balloon high in the air. At 12:30 Marconi heard it, faintly but distinctly....

The letter "S" tapped out in Morse Code time after time in England was being received in North America. :lol:  An intelligible signal was being sent thru the air - without any wires - from one side of the Earth to the other.
For a startled world,the age of international radio had begun.

In the spirit of that first contact, this is the Marconi Net. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
This is an open net that welcomes all stations interested in the art of the contact and the joy of communication. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  We are a directed net, with a net control, that uses a roundtable format. :lol:  Plenty of opportunities exist to go direct with individual stations, simply contact whomever is serving as net control,sign your call and you will be recognized. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  All of us appreciate your participating in several rounds of the net, if possible. It is not necessary to check out. :lol:

The Marconi Net meets nightly,except Thursdays, at 9PM on or about 3.872. :evil:  Please
support another fine net, the Collins Collectors Association, that meets here on Thursday nights.


While it should not need to be stated or emphasized, common sense and net protocol in general dictate that this net is not a forum for personal disputes  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
between other amateurs and the assembled stations on the net.
In the name of good amateur practice, personal disputes belong off the air. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
This net is not a soapbox for those whose intent is to be disruptive, :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  confrontational or contentious, because the true spirit of our hobby is one of
cooperation and peaceful co-existance.(Sure thing dude) :lol:

Several benefits of this net and nets in general are; conservation of frequency
space encouraging many stations to share one frequency, facilitating meeting and conversing with others from all walks of life, people who otherwise might not have met, discussion of topics of interest and fostering friendships that may lead to one on one contacts. Experienced Amateurs and newcomers alike can assist one another with questions and equipment problems as well. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  And if I dont like you and dont agree with anything you have to say(Im always right ya know) or you operate AM, you will receive a Macaroni Net OO card.


If you have an interest in serving as net control for the Marconi Net,simply
contact the group, via KB2IXT, who can be reached at KB2IXT@juno.com.


(Alternate the following phrases, then take a listing of stations and go down the list for comments,etc...)

It's another great night of radio,every night.


Great conversation and great radio.


There's an open forum here,it allows people to hear what others are saying.


You've past the test,purchased the radio gear and optimized your antenna system,now it's time to operate slopbucket in the AM window.  :evil:

[Jim, W5JO]

The great day came December 12th,1901 on a winter-swept hill outside St. Johns Newfoundland.  There three men- Guglielmo Marconi, G.S. Kemp and P.W. Paget - confidently but tensely adjusted their apparatus, which was connected to a very long wire dangling from a balloon high in the air. At 12:30 Marconi heard it, faintly but distinctly....

This is K1MAN!

[Pete, WA2CWA]

It has become clear that as we are all gentlemen and we operate in accordance with the A.M. gentlemen's agreement; I am calling to all to make full use of the A.M. broken window 20 KHZ from 3870-3890KHZ.

A sad trend is being set with further disregard and contempt for those of us that hold A.M. to our hearts. Yes we all know that legally all phone modes (specifically SSB) can operate within the set aside 20 KHZ, but does this make it right?
<cut>
I purpose that groups operate every 5-6KHZ from 3871 to 3889KHZ. Perhaps not as comfortable as we would like, but affording enough room to make a decent round-table with minimal side-channel interference.
<cut>
Your Inquirer Admin,
Brent(Tina) W1IA

Can you point to some formal documentation that defines this imaginary AM Window as being the rule of thumb for 75 meter phone operation? I find no mention of it in any band plans. How is this information being dispersed to the ever-evolving phone community to basically imply to all other phone/digital operators to please keep out? To me, this implies ownership (or intended ownership) of a range of frequencies, which is not allowed in our amateur radio regulations. What’s the justification here if the frequency(s) in question are occupied; AM’ers can’t move, AM’ers don’t want to move, AM’ers get lost easy, AM’ers are not flexible?? Have you redefined the term “gentlemen”?

While I agree, it’s nice to have a general range to find other AM stations, filling the range of frequencies with signals just for the sake of keeping everyone else out, is silly.

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Hmmmm, Interesting... the question is put forth to the group...

I'd like to hear the answer Again about How the Gentlemens AM agreement came into being.

[Fred k2dx]

This proposal seems inflammatory and counterproductive....not relinquishing a frequency to an established net may be 'legal' but still is poor manners, irregardless of the mode(s) involved. It sounds like the ghetto mentality. If your rig has a VFO, use it. That is better than 'baiting' a group who will more than likely try to interfere with you. Wouldn't it make for a more enjoyable conversation to move rather than fighting for a spot in a so called window?

[K1MVP]

wa2cwa/quote
Can you point to some formal documentation that defines this imaginary AM Window as being the rule of thumb for 75 meter phone operation? I find no mention of it in any band plans. How is this information being dispersed to the ever-evolving phone community to basically imply to all other phone/digital operators to please keep out? To me, this implies ownership (or intended ownership) of a range of frequencies, which is not allowed in our amateur radio regulations. What’s the justification here if the frequency(s) in question are occupied; AM’ers can’t move, AM’ers don’t want to move, AM’ers get lost easy, AM’ers are not flexible?? Have you redefined the term “gentlemen”?

While I agree, it’s nice to have a general range to find other AM stations, filling the range of frequencies with signals just for the sake of keeping everyone else out, is silly.[/quote]

Pete,
I think Brent IS trying to set up an "agreeable" situation, in this regard,
and although "technically legal" most am`ers will NOT just "plank"
themselves down anywhere in the phone band, and are very respectful
of sidebanders, IMO.(it`s called self policing as I recall)

Why is it when an am`er is out of the "am window", most ssb`ers are
not afraid to let them know about it, as if they are operating "illegal",
but an am`er has to "tread lightly" so as not bother a sidebander?

                                        73, Rene, K1MVP

[W1UJR]

Can you point to some formal documentation that defines this imaginary AM Window as being the rule of thumb for 75 meter phone operation? I find no mention of it in any band plans. How is this information being dispersed to the ever-evolving phone community to basically imply to all other phone/digital operators to please keep out?

Here is the answer to your question --> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html


What I would really like to know is when the "Gentlemen's Agreement" first came about and by whom.
It, the Gentlemen's Agreement is even mentioned on the Radio Amateurs of Canada website.
Must have been a long time ago, but a Google search was not too helpful.

What I did find doing a electronic QST search was a mention of said agreement in the March 1965 issue.
A gentleman by the name of M.A. Metz W7BJG wrote, and I quote "At the time I became an amateur in '31, as well as today, there were unwritten understandings called Gentlemen's Agreements. These were observed to keep phone operation seperate from c.w. in the bands. With the advent of s.s.b after WWII such an understanding was carried over to help maintain helpful seperation between a.m. and s.s.b. within the phone sectors of our bands."

There you go, the first mention I could find in QST.


.

[Tom WA3KLR]

I would like to see us AM'ers spread out over the phone bands more.  I see that the ARRL band plan for 75 meters lists 3790 - 3800 as the DX window.  Is anyone familiar with the activity in the 3775 to 3790 region?  I think it would be neat to start some regular AM activity in the 3780 - 3785 region, if possible.

[Ed KB1HVS]

Can you point to some formal documentation that defines this imaginary AM Window as being the rule of thumb for 75 meter phone operation? I find no mention of it in any band plans. How is this information being dispersed to the ever-evolving phone community to basically imply to all other phone/digital operators to please keep out?

Here is the answer to your question --> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html


What I would really like to know is when the "Gentlemen's Agreement" first came about and by whom.
It, the Gentlemen's Agreement is even mentioned on the Radio Amateurs of Canada website.
Must have been a long time ago, but a Google search was not too helpful.

What I did find doing a electronic QST search was a mention of said agreement in the March 1965 issue. A gentleman by the name of M.A. Metz W7BJG wrote, and I quote "At the time I became an amateur in '31, as well as today, there were unwritten understandings called Gentlemen's Agreements. These were observed to keep phone operation seperate from c.w. in the bands. With the advent of s.s.b after WWII such an understanding was carried over to help maintain helpful seperation between a.m. and s.s.b. within the phone sectors of our bands."

There you go, the first mention I could find in QST.

.

 TNX Bruce. That s simple enough to understand.  quote: "This net is not a soapbox for those whose intent is to be disruptive,    confrontational or contentious, because the true spirit of our hobby is one of
cooperation and peaceful co-existance."  Thats the whole reason behind "gentlemens agreements".

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Here is the answer to your question --> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html

I see mention of "AM calling frequencies" which are documented in the band plans and other published works. Where is the mention of the imaginary AM Window??[/b]

What I did find doing a electronic QST search was a mention of said agreement in the March 1965 issue. A gentleman by the name of M.A. Metz W7BJG wrote, and I quote "At the time I became an amateur in '31, as well as today, there were unwritten understandings called Gentlemen's Agreements. These were observed to keep phone operation seperate from c.w. in the bands. With the advent of s.s.b after WWII such an understanding was carried over to help maintain helpful seperation between a.m. and s.s.b. within the phone sectors of our bands."

There you go, the first mention I could find in QST.

"there were unwritten understandings called Gentlemen's Agreements."
Phrases like this make me smile. I bet these unwritten understandings were passed to all the amateur population by some sort of RF osmosis. Of course, back in 31, and even in 65, how many amateurs did we have.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I would like to see us AM'ers spread out over the phone bands more.  I see that the ARRL band plan for 75 meters lists 3790 - 3800 as the DX window.  Is anyone familiar with the activity in the 3775 to 3790 region?  I think it would be neat to start some regular AM activity in the 3780 - 3785 region, if possible.

I've heard several AM'ers down around those frequencies on weekend afternoons. Of course, none of the AM General Class amateurs can operate down there. But there's been regular AM activity around 3810, 3825, AWA net ~3837, and frequencies in between. AM is phone and can be operated anywhere phone is allowed, dependent only on your license class. Even Steve's web page now lists several more AM "gathering" frequencies.

[W1UJR]

The biggest problem about operating "out" of the "Gentlemen's Agreement" is the problems it stirs up.

To borrow a phrase from K2VH, the "AM Ghetto" is where those unfriendly to AM would like us to stay.
Operating outside the AM Ghetto causes some individuals to retaliate against the AM community be it QRM or just slandering the mode when they have a chance.

I too am in favor of establishing a “beachhead” outside the traditional AM frequencies; note that the ARRL band plan lists 3885KC as a “Calling Frequency”. Calling frequencies are where contacts are traditionally established and then moved off to another operating frequency. That designation as a calling frequency clearly gives us justification to operate outside the traditional AM watering holes.

With that said, we should be AM Ambassadors on the mode, not operating on a known net frequency – how would you like it if a group SSB ops decided to operate on 3837 used by the AWA nets – or other “known” frequencies. Yes, no one owns the frequency, but courtesy should still apply. Remember that other “Gentlemen’s Agreement”, the Amateur’s Code, the first line of which is “The Radio Amateur is…CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.”

With that said I really favor the lower part of 75, 3800-3850KC, seems to be mostly clear of nets and deranged individuals. It’s already used extensively for AM work, so why not stake it out?

[W1IA]

It has become clear that as we are all gentlemen and we operate in accordance with the A.M. gentlemen's agreement; I am calling to all to make full use of the A.M. broken window 20 KHZ from 3870-3890KHZ.

A sad trend is being set with further disregard and contempt for those of us that hold A.M. to our hearts. Yes we all know that legally all phone modes (specifically SSB) can operate within the set aside 20 KHZ, but does this make it right?
<cut>
I purpose that groups operate every 5-6KHZ from 3871 to 3889KHZ. Perhaps not as comfortable as we would like, but affording enough room to make a decent round-table with minimal side-channel interference.
<cut>
Your Inquirer Admin,
Brent(Tina) W1IA

Can you point to some formal documentation that defines this imaginary AM Window as being the rule of thumb for 75 meter phone operation? I find no mention of it in any band plans. How is this information being dispersed to the ever-evolving phone community to basically imply to all other phone/digital operators to please keep out? To me, this implies ownership (or intended ownership) of a range of frequencies, which is not allowed in our amateur radio regulations. What’s the justification here if the frequency(s) in question are occupied; AM’ers can’t move, AM’ers don’t want to move, AM’ers get lost easy, AM’ers are not flexible?? Have you redefined the term “gentlemen”?

While I agree, it’s nice to have a general range to find other AM stations, filling the range of frequencies with signals just for the sake of keeping everyone else out, is silly.

antagonist = WA2CWA

Something, such as a muscle, disease, or physiological process, that neutralizes or impedes the action or effect of another.



Helpful or useful critism welcome. I will not pretend, concede, submit, or bow to the politically correct.  Call it what you will Pete, but a passive aggressive and legal form of utilizing the band to further the enjoyment of other A.M. operators is paramount. I have no time to argue semantics about what or if an A.M. window exists....only that we choose to corral ourselves into the section of the band to avoid conflicts with other modes.

So that said, I welcome USEFUL comments on the topic otherwise go harrass someone else.


Brent W1IA

[W1IA]

This proposal seems inflammatory and counterproductive....not relinquishing a frequency to an established net may be 'legal' but still is poor manners, irregardless of the mode(s) involved. It sounds like the ghetto mentality. If your rig has a VFO, use it. That is better than 'baiting' a group who will more than likely try to interfere with you. Wouldn't it make for a more enjoyable conversation to move rather than fighting for a spot in a so called window?

Fred...counterproductive is dealing with NET(S) that spend 99% of there time operating next to ongoing A.M. qso's and complaining about A.M. sidechannel interference and taking new ops under there wing to fill there heads with mis-information about our mode of choice and encouraging these new ops to write Riley and complain about supposed interference. Inflammatory is moving the ssb NET aound the A.M. calling frequency to cause controversey; despite the fact that other areas of the band are free to operate the NET.

Quite frankly it far more productive to fill this 20khzs of the band with A.M. qso's than it is to move anywhere in the band. Have you operated at night and tried to find a clear area to operate? If you did find a clear spot to operate outside of the "A.M. Window" you would endure endless jamming and intentional interference. You can call it anything you want "Ghetto Mentallity" or otherwise. I am NOT encouraging illegal operating practices...what I am proposing is we make use of the band and make it comfortable for ALL A.M. stations to operate and enjoy.

The Net(s) involved need no baiting...they have made it a point to make life miserable for all A.M. stations in the "A.M. Window" and have been causing endless antagonism for 2 straight years.

Interesting that many with quick comments about this subject have not been operating on the band, but seem to find  time to troll for controversial subjects on the board. I am not sure this applies to you, but many. I have said it before and will say it again...turn off the computer and join me and others on the band.

Brent W1IA

[W1IA]

I would like to see us AM'ers spread out over the phone bands more.  I see that the ARRL band plan for 75 meters lists 3790 - 3800 as the DX window.  Is anyone familiar with the activity in the 3775 to 3790 region?  I think it would be neat to start some regular AM activity in the 3780 - 3785 region, if possible.

I've heard several AM'ers down around those frequencies on weekend afternoons. Of course, none of the AM General Class amateurs can operate down there. But there's been regular AM activity around 3810, 3825, AWA net ~3837, and frequencies in between. AM is phone and can be operated anywhere phone is allowed, dependent only on your license class. Even Steve's web page now lists several more AM "gathering" frequencies.

These NETS meet mostly during daylight hours with FEW exceptions. Most operators are firing up the filaments in the evening when most of the problems occur. Are you ever on the band? I am not sure I have ever worked you at all. Try it you'll like it.....beats the hell out of trolling ; )

B

[Tom WA3KLR]

??

Get some sleep Brent.

[Ed KB1HVS]

Can you point to some formal documentation that defines this imaginary AM Window as being the rule of thumb for 75 meter phone operation? I find no mention of it in any band plans. How is this information being dispersed to the ever-evolving phone community to basically imply to all other phone/digital operators to please keep out?

Here is the answer to your question --> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html


What I would really like to know is when the "Gentlemen's Agreement" first came about and by whom.
It, the Gentlemen's Agreement is even mentioned on the Radio Amateurs of Canada website.
Must have been a long time ago, but a Google search was not too helpful.

What I did find doing a electronic QST search was a mention of said agreement in the March 1965 issue.
A gentleman by the name of M.A. Metz W7BJG wrote, and I quote "At the time I became an amateur in '31, as well as today, there were unwritten understandings called Gentlemen's Agreements. These were observed to keep phone operation seperate from c.w. in the bands. With the advent of s.s.b after WWII such an understanding was carried over to help maintain helpful seperation between a.m. and s.s.b. within the phone sectors of our bands."

There you go, the first mention I could find in QST.


.

 This also is posted on the ARRL site

http://www.bozo.com/      I have my reasons       

[Pete, WA2CWA]

 This also is posted on the ARRL site

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/am-freqs.html

The ARRL link defines what freqencies AM activity can be found. It doesn't define any specific range(Windows) of frequencies other than for 10 meters.

From the ARRL site: AM activity can be found on the following frequencies.

All Frequencies in MHz
160 Meters: 1.885, 1.900, 1.945, 1.985
75 Meters: 3.825, 3.870 (West Coast), 3.880, 3.885
40 Meters: 7.290, 7.295
20 Meters: 14.286
17 Meters: 18.150
15 Meters: 21.285, 21.425
10 Meters: 29.000-29.200
6 Meters: 50.4 (generally), 50.250 Northern CO
2 Meters: 144.4 (Northwest)
               144.425 (Massachusetts)
               144.28 (NYC-Long Island)
               144.45 (California)

Here is the ARRL Band Plan for 80/75 meters:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html#80m

[Ed KB1HVS]

 This also is posted on the ARRL site

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/am-freqs.html

The ARRL link defines what freqencies AM activity can be found. It doesn't define any specific range(Windows) of frequencies other than for 10 meters.

From the ARRL site: AM activity can be found on the following frequencies.

All Frequencies in MHz
160 Meters: 1.885, 1.900, 1.945, 1.985
75 Meters: 3.825, 3.870 (West Coast), 3.880, 3.885
40 Meters: 7.290, 7.295
20 Meters: 14.286
17 Meters: 18.150
15 Meters: 21.285, 21.425
10 Meters: 29.000-29.200
6 Meters: 50.4 (generally), 50.250 Northern CO
2 Meters: 144.4 (Northwest)
               144.425 (Massachusetts)
               144.28 (NYC-Long Island)
               144.45 (California)

Here is the ARRL Band Plan for 80/75 meters:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html#80m

 True. But It shows where the "calling frequencies" are. One can only assume AM activity would be near those frequencies. I guess that is where the  unwritten "gentlemen's agreement" might come in play.