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Author Topic: Commercial Interests File Petition In HF Bands-ARRL Says it's “Seriously Flawed”  (Read 7826 times)
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Pete, WA2CWA

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« on: August 08, 2023, 07:41:16 PM »

From ARRL web Site July 11, 2023:
"The ad hoc group “Shortwave Modernization Coalition” petitioned the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to allow data communications on multiple bands within the HF 2 – 25 MHz range with up to 20 KW, including in bands immediately adjacent to spectrum allocated to the Amateur Radio Service. This group appears to represent high-speed stock trading interests..."

Rest of ARRL story with links to the full PDF:

From the ARRL web site August 2, 2023:
ARRL Files Comments Against “Seriously Flawed” HF Rules Petition
"...ARRL’s analysis determined that, if the proposed rules are adopted, the new operations inevitably will cause significant harmful interference to many users of adjacent and nearby spectrum, including Amateur Radio licensees. Ed Hare, W1RFI, a 37-year veteran of the ARRL Lab and internationally recognized expert on radio frequency interference, was the principal investigator on the study. Hare concluded the petition should not be granted. “This petition seeks to put 50 kHz wide, 20,000-watt signals immediately next to seven different amateur bands with weaker protections against interference than required in other services,” said Hare..."

Rest of ARRL story and additional information is here:

Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2023, 07:25:32 AM »

Back in 2020 I discovered one of these installations in Northern NJ.
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"Let's go kayaking, Tommy!" - Yaz

« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2023, 11:41:19 AM »

The hedge fund AI high speed neural networks can make $billions off the slight time advantage given by RF propagation vs: cable delays.   It's making money off the risk of RF spectrum contamination. At least the spectrum is renewable.

In similar fashion, it's like the oil companies getting permits to drill/produce oil in sensitive areas.  Big money.  Risk of contamination.

This present debate will be the RF spectrum do-gooders against the big corporate Wall Steet power/money.  Both sides have huge power and backing.   The probable solution will likely be to move the "dirty" 50 KHz wide 20 KW transmitters down or up the band so they are at least 200+ KHz away from any ham band edges. 50 KHZ wide is about sixteen times wider than an average data signal.  

Tests will be run to see if any wideband "Russian woodpecker" effects exist.... if so, rinse and repeat farther away until clean.  But why do they have to be so close to the ham bands in the first place?  There's plenty of unused HF spectrum far above and below most ham bands.

Good to see my old ARRL  friend, Ed Hare, W1RFI involved.


Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

Wise Words : "I'm as old as I've ever been... and I'm as young as I'll ever be."

There's nothing like an old dog.

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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2023, 10:15:41 AM »

These projects are popping up everywhere under the "experimental" authorizations and would proliferate quickly if the Part 90 permission were approved.  I have received numerous inquiries to consult on antenna installations due to my background in HF arrays.  I have turned them down because I'm retired and am now in the home healthcare business looking after my Dear Sweetie, but it would have been both interesting and lucrative.
The notion that we can solve the problem by pushing them away from our ham bands is fallacious because there are other services with more clout than we have.  In particular, military interests would take issue with having the wideband signals dumped in their back yards.  I spent part of my last decade afield upgrading military HF sites worldwide after years of neglect.  Global Com is working pretty well now.  I think the solution should involve tightening the spectral purity requirements which seem, in the proposals, to be lax.  In the Amateur community we have the PureSignal system in HPSDR for the Anan series of radios.  Surely the commercial interests could do as well, if they were compelled to do so.
It would seem that, if very small time delay advantages are what makes their system profitable, then cuddling up to the edge of the band and socking an Atomic Yalow would take the wind out of their sails, if only briefly.
Yes, it's swell that the League is on the case but we need to be realistic and know that we are up against folks with deep pockets.  I'm afraid most of the people at the FCC view us as an antique annoyance.
73 de Norm W1ITT
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