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Where to put a telephone pole?




 
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Author Topic: Where to put a telephone pole?  (Read 998 times)
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WB3JOK
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« on: April 10, 2022, 03:32:28 PM »

I had an unused electric drop on part of my property when I bought it. The electric co-op guy came around and said it's been 15 years, so their policy is: I can start paying the minimum delivery charge monthly; I can pay some large amount to leave it; or they can remove it for no charge. I opted for the last and asked that they remove the pole but leave it there. So they removed the 7200 volt line back to the road and took the pole pig (I asked for it too, but they don't give them away).

Now I have a perfectly good telephone pole that will be about 30' when planted close to my shack. Trying to figure out where to have it installed, and as a center support or an end. Here's a pic of my back yard. The shack window is at the left, second story. (Only the skinny trees that grew in the old flower garden will be considered for removal.)

I already have an OCF dipole strung between a large tree in the front yard and another at the edge of the back yard, which is my primary antenna. But I could use the pole as a center support, perhaps for an inverted V, running perpendicular to the existing wire.

I don't really feel the need for a beam antenna and rotator but it'd be good to have the option someday (which would point me towards putting it in the middle of the yard). I also thought about putting my 2m J-pole on it, but the feedline losses at 144 MHz would likely negate any advantage from height and outside location.

Any thoughts?  Huh


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AJ1G
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2022, 04:53:57 PM »

Id put it where it allow maximum straight shots for wire elevated radials in  as many directions
as possible for a ground plane vertical antenna until you put the beam on it.
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Chris, AJ1G
Stonington, CT
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2022, 06:01:58 PM »

Charles, after looking at the photos, it seems you have a very nice rural location, probably devoid of any restrictions, especially with regard to height.  I have a couple suggestions you might want to consider as you decide how to grow your antenna farm.

First, consider whether you might also want to put up a tower at some later date.  Either a crank-up or a fold-over would eliminate the need to work with your beam and rotator atop a 30 foot pole.  The cost of a bucket truck might be a good portion of a 20 foot tower that cranks up to 35 feet, like my AlumaTower.  I am restricted by code to 35 feet, but you probably could go higher.

Since it will be costly to plant the pole in a hole, you certainly want to make sure you locate it in a position that would complement, rather than detract from the installation of a tower at some later date.  If no tower is in the long-term plans, this is a moot point.

If I had a solid pole of 30 feet, and had no height restrictions, I would consider attaching another 20 or so feet of metallic mast to the top of the utility pole.  Securely attached, this could give you a reliable sky hook for a much higher inverted vee or inverted L, and both could probably be implemented on the same mast.  Height is key, as are ground radials for the vertical or inverted L.  Once the pole and mast are raised, antenna maintenence could be accomplished with a rope and pulley.  I always put an extra line and pulley at the top such that if one comes down, another can be hauled up by the backup rigging.
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Rick / W8KHK  ex WB2HKX, WB4GNR
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WB3JOK
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2022, 08:47:29 PM »

Thanks for the suggestions  Wink I actually have 56 acres, but what's in the picture is most of the couple of acres of clear area (the rest is woods). Yes, no restrictions, and most importantly, no HOA... It is somewhat of a mixed blessing that no permits or inspections are required outside the city limits 8 miles away, since the plumbing and wiring when I got the house 20 years ago was a fine example of "Missouri engineering"  Roll Eyes

I am lucky that my handyman lives 1/2 mile away, works for reasonable rates, and owns a backhoe as well as a pair of climbing spikes  Grin Already planning on a pulley and weather-resistant rope to raise and lower the antenna, which probably will be an inverted V... Good idea on the additional mast. I could also put a mast of some kind on the blue 30x40 building - the more and higher wire, the better.

No tower planned and I don't want to cover my yard with elevated radials. So I'll stick to a couple of wire antennas - although on the occasions I venture to 20m it sure would be nice to have a rotatable beam. Meanwhile, two 5-band antennas perpendicular to each other will hopefully provide enough coverage. Maybe an end-fed half wave too. The single OCF up about 30' has been lacking sometimes...
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KE5YTV
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2022, 09:43:59 PM »

Charles, you're a brave man. I wouldn't have the guts to ask my friends where to put my telephone pole. They would tell me.  Grin 73, Mike
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Mike
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WB3JOK
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2022, 10:09:47 PM »

Well, that only took five posts  Grin

Saturday was (Pole) Erection Day but we couldn't get it all the way up as it kept rolling to the side, even with a heavy steel cable to keep it from falling. Unless I can find someone to fully erect my pole for a reasonable price, we will have to make a fixture (forks) to keep it centered on the bucket.

Or use a long enough chain that if it falls toward the tow vehicle it'll still miss... There's a Making Antennas for Amateur Radio group on Facebook with 50k members. Some of the serious suggestions were unbelievably bad if not outright ignorant.  Roll Eyes



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K1JJ
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2022, 11:02:01 PM »

Hi Charles,

How about converting it to a tilt-over?   Use a 1" diameter steel pin at the bottom and another pin up 5'. The pole can free-stand safely once up - and add guy wires for raising, lowering and a general stronger structure.  The pin collar is made from two steel l-beams spaced the diameter of the pole..  You could fill most of the hole back with dirt and put in a small concrete base with the i-beam collars  to accept the two pins. Add some rebar into the concrete for good measure.

Then use three 1/4" steel EHS guy wires about 3/4 the way up the pole.  Add three small concrete guy anchors spaced 120 degrees apart, 45 degree angle guy slope, about 50' away from the base, or far enuff away to keep the pole from hitting the anchors or tractor if it fell.  Safety first.

Use TWO tractors to pull it up slowly using two guy wires spread out  120 degrees between the two tractors.  The third guy wire would be adjusted as the pole went up. When nearing full erection (90 degrees up) you tighten down the third guy wire to prevent the pole from falling over the other way. (and then slide in the upper pin)  Use standard turnbuckles at each anchor to handle normal stretching over time, etc.

This is just a rough idea, but would allow you to gain some pole height that normally goes into the ground, no pole rot,  plus be able to raise and lower it if things fail like your pulley, rope, etc.  You might want to add a small Yagi someday.   An electric or mechanical winch at each guy point could also work without tractors, though a tractor could be used at first to get a better leverage.

For a small investment in concrete you can mix yourself and some guywires will give you a very FB installation.   Most metal scrap yards have pins, plate (and i-beams for the guy anchors and base) that can be used. (CHEAP by the pound)    Since you can dig, put the anchors well underground which means less concrete needed. The steel pin i-beams go down a few feet and need to stick out about 5 feet.. Paint the underground steel with a heavy tar or something to prevent rust.

 I've put up many towers here, some 190' and am quite confident this could work for you with some careful planning..

Good luck with the project.

Tom, K1JJ


To get you thinking bigger, this 190' self supporting tower is in my backyard... the Yagis are a homebrew 6M  dual SW or NE stack put up by myself in one climb using a rope hoisting daisy chain technique.  Wink


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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2022, 11:28:58 AM »

Well if it were me and that bucket loader was mine, I would weld a ten foot steel pipe vertically to the bucket with a chain welded to the top of the pipe. I think that would get a chain high enough on the pole to upright it and set it in the hole? It would require some work to get the bucket back to it's original beauty grinding off the welds etc? Am I crazy or would this work?

Terry
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W1RKW
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2022, 04:02:25 PM »

 utilize that big tree in the background
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Bob
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WB3JOK
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2022, 04:39:06 PM »

It's already got my (approximately north-south) 80m OCF dipole attached to it  Wink I want to run another dipole or doublet nearly perpendicular...

Tom, thanks for the suggestion of a fold-over pole - sounds like a lot of fabricating and 34' above ground (6' in the hole) should be plenty.

Terry, that is a good option (there is even a row of 3/4" bolt holes along the bottom of the bucket) so I wouldn't have to depend on my mediocre welding skills. But I don't have a heavy enough steel pipe... this is the sort of job I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole  Grin

I have received many suggestions ranging from "chain it securely to the backhoe bucket and lift it" (I think it would be awfully long and heavy for that) to "attach it to your pickup and pull it upright"... called two electricians and they both recommended calling a crane service. THAT won't be cheap. Waiting to hear back from the power company that originally provided it (and took it out).
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WB3JOK
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2022, 01:54:57 PM »

I decided, in the interest of safety, to call the crane company. $130/hr from shop to shop. Total bill was $325... but he knew what he was doing and nothing was dangerous. It went very smoothly, although it took a bit longer due to the presence of my OCF dipole. Then my friend with the backhoe filled in the (very wet) dirt and squished it down with the bucket while the crane held the pole up. Once it settles some, we'll do a bit more landscaping  Cool


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