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Author Topic: Dow Key Relay  (Read 5374 times)
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KA3EKH
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« on: December 03, 2021, 01:38:36 PM »

It’s not exactly AM but it has an AME mode, my latest project has been a Harris RF-1310 exciter along with a RF-1110 amplifier. It originally had a weird dual vacuum switch deal that did the T/R switching but that’s long gone.
Was thinking of trying to use a Dow Key T/R Relay and I know it won’t be as fast but that’s not that big a concern to me. The bigger question is what is the power handling capability of the relay, like one with UHF or N Connectors and not BNC? Know they were rated for the most part at 1 kW but is that realistic? I am not planning on running the 1110 at full power but would like to do seven or eight hundred watts.
Please let me know what you think.
BTW if anyone has a Dow Key relay they will part with am looking to buy one or two.

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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2021, 09:16:50 PM »


specs attached:


* dow-keydk60.jpg (92.62 KB, 599x513 - viewed 324 times.)
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2021, 06:56:49 AM »

I have a DK60 12V one. I sent you an email with pics.

John
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K8DI
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2021, 01:14:52 PM »

Don’t forget that Dowkey made tons of different relays. The ones we see the most look like that old ad posted above.

Even their little ones with SMA’s can be good for 600w. The 310 series, a larger modern version that I use is good for 3kW. If that isn’t enough there’s always the "switch" shown below…

I have an EF Johnson version that I’m going to use on my RCA just for shts and giggles…”KERCHUNK!”

Ed



Edit, better picture/clarifying


* RFC-40-20-2-110-006.jpg (752.16 KB, 2592x1728 - viewed 195 times.)
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WD4DMZ
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2021, 07:12:49 PM »

Dow Key relays are great for my boatanchor set-ups. Question: Can coils be changed? I have a nice 48 VDC unit but want to take the 110 VAC coil off a well worn relay and swap the coils but am afraid to try it without some guidance.

Thanks, Rich
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K1JJ
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2021, 12:32:23 PM »

Here's my experience with the original (1950s- 1960s) Dow Key relays....  These are single pole / double throw coaxial relays used for a rig that usually has its own VFO.   The bigger, newer Dow Key relays I've never tried.  BTW, two Dow Keys can be used  to make a double pole / double throw ant relay for a rig with an RF input - for a common "linear in/linear out" design.

I will try to stay conservative regarding ratings here:  They are great for boat anchor power levels like the Apache, DX-100, 30L-1 linear power level (four 811As) , etc.   Let's say it's good for a few hundred watts of carrier max.  However, when we start approaching 1300W pep, (~300W carrier AM at 110% modulation)  especially on the higher bands, they can have problems under certain stressful conditions.  

The biggest risk is a flashover from the TX to the RX T/R  RF circuit. I have blown out several receiver front ends over the years using antenna relays not up to the job. Failure can cause a major event down the receiver chain.  Relay sequencing can help immensely.

I have blown out two of these Dow Key relays over the years. I admit I was pushing them. One failure was using a single 4-1000A in linear service. (two Dow Keys  DPDT)   That was about 2.5KW pep out   - and BAM!  Lost a good TS-930 transceiver and Dow Key at the same time. Kenwood repair service wouldn't touch it -  said it was hit by lightning... Grin

If you are going to be exceeding 1300W pep out, might as well be safe and get a bigger relay. The one pictured above in Ed/ K8DI's link,  a 240VAC Potter Brumfield 24VDC relay coil DPDT, is a beauty for QRO.  The limitation is the 240 VAC voltage rating being 350V peak at 50 ohms.  700V = 5KW pep at 50 ohms, so 3-4KW pep is about it max.  I run these in MOST of my rigs, regardless of RF power level. They have never failed yet.   The connections are not as short/direct for 20-10M as a Dow Key, but WTF.    I also use these Potters for my 240 VAC primary step start and other heavy AC switching.

I consider the risk of a TX to RX flashover between poles as the biggest potential problem. Carefully inspect the TX/RX relay path isolation before using any relay for the ant switching job. These Potter-style relays have ample arm poles and contacts spacing to handle maybe ~4KW pep, so you should be quite safe with a 2500 watt pep output rig..   Remember that it's important to have an ample safety margin in case you try to load up the wrong antenna, an ant leg comes down in a storm -  or an antenna connector fails, etc;  events causing the antenna swr/voltage to soar.

* Use a relay with good contact spacing as well as the relay coil being far enough away from the contacts and arms so not to generate an arc path when stressed.

Standardizing the entire shack for 24VDC coil keying is a good idea too.  Surplus 24V relays are very common.

** And, for eagles who dare, vacuum relays for antenna switching are the very best way to go when doing QRO.  I use vac relays in my three homebrew plate modulated AM and linear 4-1000A rigs for antenna switching. Never had one fail in over 40 years.


Tom, K1JJ
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2021, 12:33:57 AM »

If anyone needs a real US made RF contactor, get ahold of me.

73DG
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KA3EKH
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2021, 03:41:47 PM »

I have several contractors that were used for 5 kW AM broadcast stations. They were used in a multi tower pattern to switch between base and phasor tuning elements between night and day pattern. Spent maybe twenty years maintaining two AM stations that used them in both a four tower and two tower system.
Cleaned and rebuilt way too many of thees dam things. Think they would be a little too large for what i am doing now with the Harris although they are also Harris parts.
Did a video of one a while back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6SL_gUbus&t=9s

Ray F
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KQ6F
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2021, 07:08:08 PM »

Probably a dumb question, but were these things switching hot?
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KA3EKH
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2021, 10:23:15 AM »

No, they were never switched hot. WTGM is used twelve of those dam things to switch between Day and Night pattern, along with a couple more for switching between main and aux transmitters and a emergency NDA pattern. So I was always rebuilding one to keep on the shelf so when one failed I would swap it out and then rebuild the faulty unit. On the Harris MW-5 transmitters they had a PDM interrupt and when you changed pattern the PDM system was muted and until all the relay swapped over would stay muted. This would result in the if any of the switches hanged the station going off the air until you got out there to sort out what one of the twelve relays got stuck. When it worked it would change patterns with only a three second interruption.
I got laid off by Cheap Channel a couple years back and noticed after about four or five months that station has been stuck in night pattern ever since.
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KA2PTE
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2021, 01:08:46 PM »

The solenoid cylinder can be removed from the frame , so I think as long as the
plunger and physical dimensions are the same, probably would work.

I made a post in another thread showing one I took apart recently that was a 120V type which
failed.

Dow Key relays are great for my boatanchor set-ups. Question: Can coils be changed? I have a nice 48 VDC unit but want to take the 110 VAC coil off a well worn relay and swap the coils but am afraid to try it without some guidance.

Thanks, Rich
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WD4DMZ
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2021, 02:46:21 PM »

Thanks. I found your old thread with the pic.

How did you remove the solenoid? Did you just twist or pry it off?

Thanks, Rich
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KA2PTE
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2021, 02:47:25 PM »

2 screws from the other side that I think are under the external switch
contact set.

Thanks. I found your old thread with the pic.

How did you remove the solenoid? Did you just twist or pry it off?

Thanks, Rich
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