Warning: Creating default object from empty value in /homepages/11/d132647312/htdocs/Amfone/mkportal/include/SMF/smf_out.php on line 47
On Air Behavior




 
The AM Forum
October 29, 2020, 05:55:25 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Calendar Links Staff List Gallery Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: On Air Behavior  (Read 1516 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
K8DI
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 162


« on: September 24, 2020, 08:51:21 AM »

So. I found and eliminated another RFI source at home, which dropped local noise back down to S3-4 vs. S9+. Thus 80 and 40 have signals I can copy again.

Last night I sat there and listened.

What the heck? 3885 full of carriers and key-ups on top of signals, CW, and deliberate interference. 3870 was not in use but good form says not to use due to already in progress SSB just below it. 3880 getting grunge from unnecessarily wide bandwidths on 3885, although there were some using it too.

Signals heard from KY, NV, WI, MN and others. I am in Michigan. Not going to give the calls I heard, but this wasn’t a local/NVIS type set of QSOs.

I have gotten into AM from the home built, nostalgic, conversational places. What I hear makes me want to leave.

What can I do to help make this better?

Ed
Logged

Ed, K8DI, warming the air with RF, and working on lighting the shack with thoriated tungsten and mercury vapor...
W7TFO
WTF-OVER in 7 land Dennis
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2286


IN A TRIODE NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU SCREEN


WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2020, 10:47:30 AM »

I hear you, Ed.

The airwaves are increasingly filled with poor on-air practices, political & religious diatribes, some bordering on hate speech.

A good friend and op N6YW went QRT, sold off everything ham.  Said he was just tired of the fight.

Many are not sure how to counteract this rising tribalism.  Others are advocating more such crap.

73DG
Logged

Just pacing the Farady cage...
WD5JKO
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1874


WD5JKO


« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2020, 12:16:45 PM »



  Over here in the 5th call area, the AM Window is pretty much as you say up north. I find it really strange. As a result, I still get on 5-6 times a week, but do so on a prearranged frequency, and time below 3800 with a good group of guys. One of those groups starts before sunset before the band wakes up for short skip, and therefore we are using SSB. Two of us are using Vintage SSB, so not exactly a fancy plastic transceiver. The other group is on AM.

   Inevitably these days something political comes up. I try to make an effort to be apolitical, but I admit I sometimes slip up. This can cost us to lose friends. Fortunately most of those in my inner circle, both sides of the aisle, can take a comment or two without being offended.

Hang in there!

Jim
Wd5JKO
Logged
K1JJ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8408


"Let's go hiking in the woods, Tommy!" - Yaz


« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2020, 12:50:07 PM »

Ham Radio is just a reflection of society. In the 1950's it was hi-hi FB, OM with suits and ties and respect. Today it is Rosie O'Donnell attitudes - where anything goes.  It's cool to be an a-hole in some minds.

Right now the band is opening up for wintertime skip as well as low sunspot skip, so we are hearing groups on 75M that were never there even a month ago. Last night the conflict/debate on 3885 was about stations getting too close; 5KHz spacing was too little. So here on the east coast there was friction.

What is my opinion for the increased friction?  In the big picture that nobody realizes is we are entering an 80 year cycle of USA crisis. This is my own work with cycles and you will not read this anywhere else...I will be brief... ROUGHLY, every 80 years and to a minor extent every 40 years (going back to 1620) we have a major crisis in the USA that lasts about 4 years.  In 1780 it was the Rev War.  In 1861 it was the Civil War.  In 1941 it was The Great Depression and WWII.  The present 80 year cycle falls in 2020 and has begun -  has started off with a bang.  Notice each crisis involved social, economic problems and always war.   The President at the time, though sometimes unpopular during his term, became a hero later on in history for leading the country thru the crisis.  The unsettling part about this is that every 80 year cycle gets more violent because we have invented more effective ways of killing each other.  

So if the cycle continues, expect more crisis and unrest at least until 2024 and then things will get quiet and peaceful again for a few decades as if everyone has had enuff.   I outlined and almost wrote a book about this in 2015, but decided to pass and just sent a heads up to some friends and later to the Prez himself.  It's interesting how I hear Washington, Lincoln, Teddy, FDR and Reagan mentioned often who are the 80 and 40 year Presidents.  And notice who is on Mt. Rushmore.

As far as ham conflicts... Jim has the right idea. Find yourself a group of like-minded friends who share your technical and other traits and hang out with them. You don't have to be all things to all people. There will be conflicts at times. Just remember that we are going thru some chaotic times and hams will be affected and we will see it in their behavior.  Cut everyone some slack and they will do the same for you.

T
Logged

Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed. 

Nothing like a new homebrew rig. Come into the shack, flip on the switches and everything works perfectly.

And, nothing like an old dog.
Jim, W5JO
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2461


« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2020, 12:54:42 PM »

You should have heard the 75/80 meter band in the mid 1950s.  All you describe was the norm other than bad language and deliberate interference, playing music, belching, toilet flushing and such.  

It did happen and when it did someone had a conversation with the offending station and it pretty much stopped.  Today it is a different story, stations who think a particular frequency at a particular time is theirs, stations who deliberately interfere, SSB stations beating AM stations and the like.  The frequency disputes is what led to narrow band AM that manufacturers implemented in the late 50s.  If you look at old Handbooks from the early 50s you will find audio section component values completely different from later versions of the handbook.  All in an attempt to provide maximum growth for the hobby.  The best example I can think of is the stock Heath Apache compared to the stock DX 100.  Today SSB stations are doing the same, ESSB is an example which occupies nearly as much bandwidth as a proper AM signal.

Some of this could be addressed by proper equipment operation and most stations do, it is just some don't and brought bad habits to the hobby.
Logged
W1ITT
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 402


« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2020, 01:28:26 PM »

Hi Tom and all...
This fellow, Egon von Greyerz (what a name!) has been describing the 20 year minor through 80 year major cycle theory for a number of decades now, and a bit of study shows the truth in it.  I recall  when the Soviet Union fell into disrepair in the '90s that "everyone" thought the world was going to be coming up roses forever after, and we saw how that has worked out.  Cycles happen, although not always in the way that we expect.
As far as political discussions, whether on the air or out on main street, I believe that we are so polarized as a nation that it's just a waste of breath.  A recent poll found that something in the high 90s percent of people are all decided on the election and would not be inclined to change their vote.  We can chat sociably with each other, or shout at each other and it probably will just make us, as well as the other fellow, leave feeling bad.  There's enough to talk about in ham radio that we'll get through this with more friends if we just leave politics out.  If we need to disagree on something, let's start with the predictions for the upcoming solar cycle. My local friends and I complain about the effects of the drought on our gardens, and that seems to be enough.
Here's a link to a von Greyerz comment regarding cycles.  He's quite the gold bug and has some interesting analysis.
https://goldswitzerland.com/dark-years-fourth-turning/
73 de Norm W1ITT
Logged
K1JJ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8408


"Let's go hiking in the woods, Tommy!" - Yaz


« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2020, 01:41:09 PM »

Hi Norm,

Yep, looks like he wrote about it in 2008, a few years before me.   I looked hard on Google a few years ago and could no find anything about the "80 year Presidential crisis cycle" which is what I called it.   Looks like he's a Jim Dines doom and gloomer gold bug type.  

In hindsight it is really a simple pattern to identify. I often wondered why it was never made more mainstream.  One of the distinctions I made was that Teddy and Reagan were intermediate  40 year Prezs, while Wash, Linc, FDR and Trump were major 80 year Prezs.   And there appeared to be no pattern for the 10, 20 year prezs... IE, the 20 year Prez were the Bushes... and 10 year was Carter... nothing.   So the 40 year had an influence, but the rare 80 year, where we are now, were huge in influence.  Notice that 1780 -80  -80  = 1620, the Mayflower landing. Maybe that was the real beginning, I dunno.    And 1620 - 40  -40 -40  = 1500, within 8 years of Columbus discovery.  I'll bet if we probed further, there is a pattern in European history that goes way way back to continue the cycle pattern.   I do this kind of analysis in the stock market, so it's second nature for me... Grin

Thanks for the extra info.  

T
Logged

Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed. 

Nothing like a new homebrew rig. Come into the shack, flip on the switches and everything works perfectly.

And, nothing like an old dog.
KD1SH
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 225



« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2020, 02:07:28 PM »

"In times like these, it's helpful to remember that there have always been times like these."

Paul Harvey -
Logged
Pete, WA2CWA
Moderator
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 7789


CQ CQ CONTEST


WWW
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2020, 07:53:01 PM »

For many years, people have been siting all sorts of historical events, with sometimes gentle massages as far as specific years, to fit all sorts of generational theories.
The Strauss-Howe Generational Theory is another one. If you give a good convincing story, people will want to believe it and many do.

Got to go check Nostradamus and his prophecies to see if he had any good vibes with the upcoming sunspot cycle.

This guy saw something really bad in his crystal ball and got frozen in time:

Logged

Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
WD8BIL
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4319


« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2020, 09:16:50 PM »

Search down low! The What's for Dinner group meets sporadically at 3733kHz @ 5:00PM eastern till @ 6:30PM. Many are using 3705kHz. I've even struck up a number of QSOs on 3695kHz.

Why confine to just the 3870-3890 corridor?  We have 400kHz to play with.
Logged
Jim/WA2MER
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 226



« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2020, 07:15:05 AM »


What can I do to help make this better?

Nothing. You can't make it better. The best you can do is to avoid contributing to the problem by not participating in the type of behavior you find annoying. Like many other things in life you should choose your on-the-air friends carefully, and be mindful of where you hang out. Some kids and the neighborhoods they hang out in are best avoided.
Logged

Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess.
Since you have to die anyway, you might as well die from something you like.
Tom W2ILA
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 234


« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2020, 08:06:24 AM »

Switch to CW
Logged
W7TFO
WTF-OVER in 7 land Dennis
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2286


IN A TRIODE NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU SCREEN


WWW
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2020, 10:04:57 AM »

Switch to CW

The same vitriol exists there, too.

73DG
Logged

Just pacing the Farady cage...
WBear2GCR
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3954


Brrrr- it's cold in the shack! Fire up the BIG RIG


WWW
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2020, 10:42:01 AM »

What can I do?

1) Don't be "piss weak" when you get on.
2) Use the VFO
3) Call CQ/start your own "group"/"hang out" frequency (or several)
4) Remember it is "Radio Theater! Think of it as performance art, not
something that has to conform to any particular concept.
5) Relax.

              _-_-

PS. depending on the propagation and where you are, one may get all sorts of
incoming signals from groups that may not be able to hear each other or be
aware of their existence.
Logged

_-_- bear WB2GCR                   http://www.bearlabs.com
KD6VXI
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2284


Making AM GREAT Again!


« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2020, 11:04:27 AM »

How can you help you ask.

There is a guy, kinda famous.  He coined a phrase.

"You can't fix stupid".

Sad, but true.  Be the guy you want to talk to.  Best thing you can do.


--Shane
KD6VXI
Logged
n1ps
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 322


Zorch!


« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2020, 06:54:16 PM »

What can I do?

1) Don't be "piss weak" when you get on.
2) Use the VFO
3) Call CQ/start your own "group"/"hang out" frequency (or several)
4) Remember it is "Radio Theater! Think of it as performance art, not
something that has to conform to any particular concept.
5) Relax.
   

Yup.  I believe many of the offenders are not hams and most of the other geniuses are not AM guys.
Logged
WD5JKO
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1874


WD5JKO


« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2020, 10:17:28 PM »

In hindsight it is really a simple pattern to identify. I often wondered why it was never made more mainstream.  One of the distinctions I made was that Teddy and Reagan were intermediate  40 year Prezs, while Wash, Linc, FDR and Trump were major 80 year Prezs.   And there appeared to be no pattern for the 10, 20 year prezs... IE, the 20 year Prez were the Bushes... and 10 year was Carter... nothing.   So the 40 year had an influence, but the rare 80 year, where we are now, were huge in influence.  Notice that 1780 -80  -80  = 1620, the Mayflower landing. Maybe that was the real beginning, I dunno.    And 1620 - 40  -40 -40  = 1500, within 8 years of Columbus discovery.  I'll bet if we probed further, there is a pattern in European history that goes way way back to continue the cycle pattern.   I do this kind of analysis in the stock market, so it's second nature for me... Grin

Tom,

   Here is something on cycles throughout the world. A lot to unpack, 700, 45, and 10 year cycles. The last one is a good fit to the us stock market. SELL SELL SELL!

http://www.nexialinstitute.com/cycles_700,45,_10.htm

Jim
Wd5JKO
Logged
K1JJ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8408


"Let's go hiking in the woods, Tommy!" - Yaz


« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2020, 12:05:01 AM »


Tom,

   Here is something on cycles throughout the world. A lot to unpack, 700, 45, and 10 year cycles. The last one is a good fit to the us stock market. SELL SELL SELL!

http://www.nexialinstitute.com/cycles_700,45,_10.htm

Jim
Wd5JKO


Hi Jim,

Tnx. That's a very FB and detailed cycles of civilization.  Interesting how the climb takes many centuries but the decline is quick, just like a stock chart.

Scientific cycles such as the sunspots, the orbit of Jupiter, rise and setting of the sun, etc., are precise. But when measuring human activity, things are not as precise, though there are definite patterns.  The cycles can range from hours to centuries.  Very interesting stuff, indeed.  

The bottom line is anyone can try to predict the future, but no one can predict it accurately, consistently.  There are times when it is easier for human events to trigger.  We don't necessarily know just WHAT events will occur to power the cycle to a high and then a low again.  But there are patterns driven by human nature that can be identified.  I can give you a few obvious ones: Yell "fire" in a theater and everyone will run for the exits.  Stop the food supply for a month and people will be fighting to the death for it.  Come up with a convincing easy money scam and most people will fall for it.  Face off two opposing armies and there is a high probability they will fight.

Human patterns and cycles are real - of both micro and macro duration. Whether they can be accurate enough to help forecast specific events in the future is another matter.

T
Logged

Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed. 

Nothing like a new homebrew rig. Come into the shack, flip on the switches and everything works perfectly.

And, nothing like an old dog.
Steve - K4HX
Administrator
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2695



« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2020, 09:25:45 PM »

There's a 1 year cycle on people being horrified by on-air behavior.

Quote
What can I do to help make this better?


As others have noted, nothing. Find a clear frequency and call CQ. Don't do this 5 kHz from another QSO, AM or SSB. There are vast swathes of unused freqs below 3750 and more so below 3700. Use your VFO and enjoy. Life has never been so good for AMers.
Logged
K1JJ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8408


"Let's go hiking in the woods, Tommy!" - Yaz


« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2020, 09:26:32 PM »

Life has never been so good for AMers.


That is the truth, Big Country.  Who is bothering us or threatening us?  Nobody.  There is plenty of room to operate now, there are no pending FCC regulation changes to snuff out AM and the ARRL loves AM!  Vintage parts are easy to find on e-Bay and DigiKey, Mouser, etc, fill in the rest.  Even old boat anchor prices have peaked out and are getting easy to buy again. What's not to like?

Do you remember in the 80s and 90s when there was always talk about power restrictions, bandwidth restrictions or just plain outlawing AM?  There were constant battles on the air with SSB groups. Even though that was exciting, it got old after a while.

I can still remember saying that all of these threats would NOT be what takes out AM.  The only way AM will go out is when the last CQ is called by the last Old Timer.  There will come a time when the bands get quieter and quieter until there is barely any activity. The only big signals will be thunderstorms.  We will then hear dead silence  (or see a quiet waterfall on the lower bands) until there are none. Will it take another 40-50 years? I dunno.

 It will not get any better than this. After all, in 40 years where will the majority of present day AMers be? Who is here now to fill in the ranks?  So get on the air and remember that these ARE the best times for AM.  Get on while there is still a lot of activity and your ham buddies are still around.

T
Logged

Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed. 

Nothing like a new homebrew rig. Come into the shack, flip on the switches and everything works perfectly.

And, nothing like an old dog.
WU2D
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1757


CW is just a narrower version of AM


« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2020, 12:52:13 PM »

160M is waking up. Good AM there. And down low on 75M. Now that the shortwavers are going the way of the DoDo and 40M has been cleansed a bit, things are looking better up there. Been a long time since I heard of an 6 or 2M AM activity. I used to work both bands.

And if you want to try some narrowband low signal stuff, 630 and 2200M is beckoning for some investigation and project work. That should keep you satisfied and off the air for some time!
Logged

These are the good old days of AM
ka1bwo
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 112


« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2020, 10:16:58 AM »

Ham Radio is just a reflection of society. In the 1950's it was hi-hi FB, OM with suits and ties and respect. Today it is Rosie O'Donnell attitudes - where anything goes.  It's cool to be an a-hole in some minds.

Right now the band is opening up for wintertime skip as well as low sunspot skip, so we are hearing groups on 75M that were never there even a month ago. Last night the conflict/debate on 3885 was about stations getting too close; 5KHz spacing was too little. So here on the east coast there was friction.

What is my opinion for the increased friction?  In the big picture that nobody realizes is we are entering an 80 year cycle of USA crisis. This is my own work with cycles and you will not read this anywhere else...I will be brief... ROUGHLY, every 80 years and to a minor extent every 40 years (going back to 1620) we have a major crisis in the USA that lasts about 4 years.  In 1780 it was the Rev War.  In 1861 it was the Civil War.  In 1941 it was The Great Depression and WWII.  The present 80 year cycle falls in 2020 and has begun -  has started off with a bang.  Notice each crisis involved social, economic problems and always war.   The President at the time, though sometimes unpopular during his term, became a hero later on in history for leading the country thru the crisis.  The unsettling part about this is that every 80 year cycle gets more violent because we have invented more effective ways of killing each other.  

So if the cycle continues, expect more crisis and unrest at least until 2024 and then things will get quiet and peaceful again for a few decades as if everyone has had enuff.   I outlined and almost wrote a book about this in 2015, but decided to pass and just sent a heads up to some friends and later to the Prez himself.  It's interesting how I hear Washington, Lincoln, Teddy, FDR and Reagan mentioned often who are the 80 and 40 year Presidents.  And notice who is on Mt. Rushmore.

As far as ham conflicts... Jim has the right idea. Find yourself a group of like-minded friends who share your technical and other traits and hang out with them. You don't have to be all things to all people. There will be conflicts at times. Just remember that we are going thru some chaotic times and hams will be affected and we will see it in their behavior.  Cut everyone some slack and they will do the same for you.

T
  80 year cycle, Tom very interesting observation.  Thanks for your insight
Joe

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

AMfone - Dedicated to Amplitude Modulation on the Amateur Radio Bands
 AMfone © 2001-2015
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.084 seconds with 19 queries.