Windows 10 - Beware of audio artifacts (distortion) and corrections

[steve_qix]

First of all, I like Windows 10.  There are many improvements over previous Windows operating systems.  However, it is not perfect...some things are hard to find, and the UI is a bit busy.

But, otherwise it is quite good.

Anyway, that being said, one thing I *do not* like are the built-in, and usually enabled audio "enhancements" that are part of Win 10, at least on the hardware I'm using.

So, over the weekend I upgraded my "main" system from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 10 Pro.  No problem.  The upgrade went flawlessly, although I did clone the Win 7 system before doing the the upgrade, just in case.  Interestingly, I did not have to purchase a new license key.   The upgrade "Just worked".  Hopefully this continues.

I use this computer for many things including running my station in the shack remotely (this computer is in my office).   The audio sounded "annoying".  I immediately thought the AGC on the set too fast on the Flex - checked that - everything was Ok.  Hmmm.  The audio appeared to be "compressed" (like a bad peak limiter was in use).  Didn't think much of it - thought maybe it was just noisy band conditions, and the AGC in the Flex was responding perhaps a bit too fast.

I was fooling around with the audio level coming from the computer, and lo and behold - if the level was set very low (and I increased the gain of the external audio amplifier I have driving a big speaker), the compression effect WENT AWAY !!   Wait a minute....Turned it back up (lowering the gain on the external amp), and the awful compression came back.  AH HA - this was on purpose, in the operating system.

Now, there is a "sound manager" that includes "enhancements" that I had previous disabled.  Check this.  If it is enabled, you WILL have distortion in your audio.  I have measured it - very serious.  Ok that was not re-enabled, so the problem was elsewhere.

Turns out that the Realtek driver supplied by the Win 10 upgrade has compression.

There are several places where this compression may be enabled, depending on your hardware.  In my case, it was the driver itself. I went into the control panel, and replaced the Realtek driver for the sound device with the generic Microsoft "High Definitely Audio Device" driver.  Compression gone!

Other systems may have it in the driver _and_ it may also be enabled in the sound settings (Sound applet in the Control Panel) themselves.

Just thought I'd point this out.  Windows 10 is great, but for whatever reason, the default sound settings seem to have compression and other distortion causing  items enabled.  I have 4 Windows 10 system and all of them had at lease one distortion causing setting enabled.

[KD6VXI]

Back in another time, when I was heavily involved in white hat hacking as well as designed and implemented large corporate networks (global spanning at times), I started using a pc for audio processing.

I found similar problems with other drivers.

Sound Blaster, Turtle Beach and even generic drivers for day the ESS cheapo devices had built in equalization, dsp processing, etc.

It was a real pain to go through.

I can feel your pain.  And glad (good) to k no ow the generic win drivers bypass all that garbage.  I'm getting ready to set a new pc up for audio processing and this will come in handy!

--Shane
KD6VXI

[WA2SQQ]

Any chance you can provide the step-by-step and where you found the driver that corrected the problem?

[steve_qix]

Before you change anything, verify that the enhancements are not enabled, and also verify that the particular driver you are using really does have the problem - it may not.

Assuming the above has been sufficiently investigated:

1) Bring up the control panel
2) Click on Device Manager
3) Expand "Sound, video and game controllers"
4) Double-Click on Realtek High Definition Audio
5) Click on the "Driver" tab
6) Click on "Update Driver"
7) Click "Browse my computer...."
Click "Let me pick...."
9) Select "High Definition Audio Device"
10) Click "Next"  Allow the driver to be updated
11) When all of that is completed, clock the "Close" button, and reboot the computer.  The changes will not take place until reboot.

Again, this is specifically for Realtek drivers only.  The problem *may* exist for others, but I don't know about it.

[W1RKW]

I just ordered a new laptop because it turns out Intuit Turbotax 2019 will not run on Win7 or so I'm told.  And if it does, Intuit states it will not be liable for any security breaches.  Just dandy.  

Yeah, I could update the current laptop with win10 but don't want to spend a month or so dealing with configuration issues and any hiccups.

What is irritating is having to replace perfectly good hardware at the whim of MS. But what is more irritating is knowing is knowing MS offers extended security updates to businesses for a meager fee per machine but not individuals.  MS is offering extended security updates for businesses for another 3 years a very small annual fee.  Wish they included individual users in this deal. I would have gladly paid the small fee at least for now.

Rant mode: off

Steve/QIX, Tom/K1JJ and others, not sure if you're aware of this but as a small business owner, you can extend your Windows 7 security updates by subscribing to Microsofts Extended Security Updates (ESU) thus extending the need to upgrade to Win10 and any hardware.  Just Google Windows 7 ESU for details.

[steve_qix]

Yes, you could continue on Win 7 if you have Professional (which everyone really should use, for home or otherwise).  But, you're probably safe doing your taxes this year and staying on Win 7 at least until you file your taxes.  The security updates are very up to date at this point.

I actually prefer Windows 10 over Window 7.  There are some good features in there, and the other reason is that a LOT of new software won't run on Window 7.  For instance, the newest version of Qualcomm's BlueSuite software which is necessary for for being able to debug QC based embedded devices will only run properly on Windows 10.  I've run into other issues like this with other products.

The networking is better in Win 10, and the diagnostics have also been refined quite a bit.  There is also built-in virtualization (although at the moment I am running VirtualBox).  I personally like the new taskbar much better.  You can get more onto it, and of course you can pin applications used frequently to the taskbar, making them super-fast to launch.

The upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10 has, so far (except for the driver issue addressed in this topic) been painless and it didn't take long at all.  I did have to re-register Adobe Photoshop (no money involved) because the license did not transfer to the new operating system.

[WBear2GCR]

While I can't say how your Win 10 box will function, one reason I do not like it is that it
seems to like to turn things "back on" that I turn off. Like the Wifi, for example. No simple
way to defeat it and keep it off (assuming you have a reason to do that). It seems to want
to "self-correct". (next time you fire up or come out of "sleep" mode)

Ymmv.

[steve_qix]

While I can't say how your Win 10 box will function, one reason I do not like it is that it
seems to like to turn things "back on" that I turn off. Like the Wifi, for example. No simple
way to defeat it and keep it off (assuming you have a reason to do that). It seems to want
to "self-correct". (next time you fire up or come out of "sleep" mode)

Ymmv.

If you disable the interface in the network control panel applet, wifi should not function again until you manually re-enable the interface.

[KD6VXI]

A lot of times that can be caused by running appli actions with administrator rights.

Make a user account that doesn't have these rights.

Then apps can't automagically turn things like wifi on and off at their will.

If you use the admin or super user account as your main account to prevent having to continually approve changes, all bets are off and you run the risk of seriously having your computer compromised.

--Shane
KD6VXI

[W1RKW]

Interesting.  The folks at Intuit (Turbo Tax) have changed something in TurboTax 2019 since the summer.  Intuit stated back in the summer the TT 2019 would not work on Win 7. 

[w1vtp]

I just ordered a new laptop because it turns out Intuit Turbotax 2019 will not run on Win7 or so I'm told.  And if it does, Intuit states it will not be liable for any security breaches.  Just dandy.  

Yeah, I could update the current laptop with win10 but don't want to spend a month or so dealing with configuration issues and any hiccups.

What is irritating is having to replace perfectly good hardware at the whim of MS. But what is more irritating is knowing is knowing MS offers extended security updates to businesses for a meager fee per machine but not individuals.  MS is offering extended security updates for businesses for another 3 years a very small annual fee.  Wish they included individual users in this deal. I would have gladly paid the small fee at least for now.

Rant mode: off

Steve/QIX, Tom/K1JJ and others, not sure if you're aware of this but as a small business owner, you can extend your Windows 7 security updates by subscribing to Microsofts Extended Security Updates (ESU) thus extending the need to upgrade to Win10 and any hardware.  Just Google Windows 7 ESU for details.

This is the last year Turbo Tax will run on Win7.  There is a nag screen that comes up every time you bring the program up on Win7.  I am ordering a WinX computer for next year.  IT'S A CONSPIRACY! I TELL YA!  

[KK4YY]

There seems to be a belief that Windows 7 was secure in the past. A further belief is that Windows 10 will be secure in the future. I have serious doubts about either belief.

[KD6VXI]

Once connected to the he internet, no one has eating system should be considered secure.  Even if firewalled.

--Shane
KD6VXI

[W1RKW]

I won't give up my Win7 box just like my XP box at least not yet.  I have a few applications and some National Instruments applications that won't run on Win10. Lots of $$ to upgrade those.

[WBear2GCR]

While I can't say how your Win 10 box will function, one reason I do not like it is that it
seems to like to turn things "back on" that I turn off. Like the Wifi, for example. No simple
way to defeat it and keep it off (assuming you have a reason to do that). It seems to want
to "self-correct". (next time you fire up or come out of "sleep" mode)

Ymmv.

If you disable the interface in the network control panel applet, wifi should not function again until you manually re-enable the interface.

One would think so!!

On the laptop in question, it absolutely re-enabled itself every time the machine was rebooted.
Thus my comment.

That and the "updates" that can not (apparently) be stopped.

[steve_qix]

I disabled Windows 10 updates on one of my systems by disabling the update service.  At this moment, I forget which service that is, but it was not difficult to find at the time.

[KQ6F]

If you want to permanently disable Windows 10 Updates, you can't do it simply by going to Services.msc and disabling Windows Update.  Win 10 will periodically override that.  To make it permanent go here:  https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10.  There are three ways to do it;  I chose How to disable Automatic Updates using Group Policy.

I did this several months ago and have not had any subsequent updates.

[W2PFY]

I did this several months ago and have not had any subsequent updates.

What is the problem with automatic updates and updates in general.

I like my system. Dell 9020 28 gigs ram. 3.6 something MHz. Solid state C drive. When I had Windows 98 second addition and later XP, It seemed like I was upgrading or downloading new programs all the time. I'll bet computer shops are less busy with Windows ten pro nowadays.

 

[W1RKW]

Interestingly, a  couple of days ago Microsoft pushed an update to one of my Windows 7 machines.  Wondering if anyone else did too?

[Opcom]

Found that enhancements. The checkbox says "turn enhancements off" so the unwanted things were on by default. I guess they think everyone has a set of dime store speakers.