The AM Forum
April 24, 2024, 07:06:32 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Calendar Links Staff List Gallery Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tripping over the simple stuff  (Read 3393 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
va3dxv
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 25


« on: January 18, 2020, 07:29:35 PM »

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster here. I've learned a lot by reading through various topics here over my time as a ham, and was hoping I could now beg for some guidance trying to get my first homebrew amplifier settled up.

A few half-finished junkbox projects have followed me home over the last little while. I've scavenged enough parts to halfway finish a basic grounded grid 80/40/20 amp of my own. It's running a pair of 813's for now, all grids tied to ground. I have enough parts to add a plate modulator later.

I'm working with a power supply that was built by someone else. It's not ideal, but it's what I have in the meantime to at least get the amp itself sorted out. I'm on the hunt for a bigger xfrmr so I can build my own.

Whoever built this supply tied the B- directly to ground. I've modified that according to what I've read in various places. When I first tested it, before floating the B-, I just ran the center tap of the filament transformer through M1, and then on TX I just grounded the other side of the meter. Worked great but not ideal metering. Now that I'm trying to set up the meters for plate and grid, I'm kind of going in circles. I know it's pretty basic stuff but it's my first go at this so I'm second guessing a lot, and hung up on things I probably shouldn't be.

I'm wondering if someone could check out my attached schematic and tell me why I'm a dumba$$ :)

For now I have no tuned input, and also using just a resistor for cutoff bias. Tuned input and zeners or something are in the future.

1) I've redrawn the switching around K4 a number of times, then stared at it forever, but I keep doing it over thinking it's wrong. I'm sure it's wrong.

2) Does M1 need a shunt? The meter is already what I need it to be, but whats the safest way to implement it?

3) Is my thinking around M2 right? (5ma 100mv FS meter, but want 50ma... so 2ohm shunt instead of the built in 20ohm? Then if I want a 500ma scale, add a 1k in series with + also?)

4) Is R12 needed, and if so how do I figure out the right value?

Thanks for reading, and thanks to all I've learned from on here while lurking.


Logged
Opcom
Patrick J. / KD5OEI
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8315



WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2020, 12:59:45 AM »


1) I've redrawn the switching around K4 a number of times, then stared at it forever, but I keep doing it over thinking it's wrong. I'm sure it's wrong.

2) Does M1 need a shunt? The meter is already what I need it to be, but whats the safest way to implement it?

3) Is my thinking around M2 right? (5ma 100mv FS meter, but want 50ma... so 2ohm shunt instead of the built in 20ohm? Then if I want a 500ma scale, add a 1k in series with + also?)

4) Is R12 needed, and if so how do I figure out the right value?

Thanks for reading, and thanks to all I've learned from on here while lurking.




2) M1 looks fine if it measures what you want, 750mA, no need for anything I think, I see you already have protected the meters.

3) For M1, if you already measured the stock meter and it reads 5mA full scale, is 20 Ohms, and uses 0.1 Volt, then instead of 2 Ohms, add 2.22 Ohms. This is because with the 20 ohms of the existing meter across the 2.22 Ohm added shunt, it will pass 5mA through the meter and 45mA through the shunt, giving 50mA for sull scale.  ("2.22" as close as possible, really 2.222222...)

For a 500mA full scale indication with the same "stock meter that reads 5mA full scale, has 20 Ohms, and uses 0.1 Volt", a shunt of 0.2020 Ohm can be used. Perhaps a good quality 0.2 Ohm resistor will be close enough.

If a shunt is very low resistance, a few feet of small wire like #30 wadded up zigzag (non-inductively) can be used to make such a low value shunt across the meter. A milliohmmeter is useful. 1FT of #30 AWG copper wire is 0.103 Ohms, so 1.96FT should do it, refer to your regional wire table for Ohms per distance of the small wire.

I don't understand where you are saying about adding a 1K resistor.

4.) R12 does not seem to be needed.

With K4 de-energized, the 'standby' current through the standby bias resistor R19 will not go through M1. Should the non-relay end of R19 which now goes to B- be moved to pin 4 of K4 (plate meter +) instead? The slight indication might be useful one way or another.
Logged

Radio Candelstein - Flagship Station of the NRK Radio Network.
va3dxv
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 25


« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2020, 07:19:26 PM »

Great stuff, thanks a bunch for taking the time. It's clearer now. I thought I'd have to put a resistor in series between the meter and the shunt.
Logged
KK4YY
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 565


Your best isn't as good as you can be.


« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2020, 08:42:43 PM »

Nice looking schematic. Smiley

You may want to add freewheeling (reverse biased) diodes across the 24VDC relay coils to protect your PTT switches from arcing. Cheap insurance, especially if your external PTT switch is a leaf switch in a desk mic.

Lurking here is good. I did it for a long time too. Initially, I signed-up to be able to use the search feature. This is a valuable tool that's too often overlooked.


Don
Logged

All your worries won't add a day to your life, or make the ones you have any happier.
WBear2GCR
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4135


Brrrr- it's cold in the shack! Fire up the BIG RIG


WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 09:20:01 PM »

I only looked quickly, but I must be missing something... "floating the B-"?
Where does it connect to?

Where is the return for the HV supply?

             
Logged

_-_- bear WB2GCR                   http://www.bearlabs.com
KK4YY
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 565


Your best isn't as good as you can be.


« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2020, 12:47:35 AM »

I only looked quickly, but I must be missing something... "floating the B-"?
Where does it connect to?

Where is the return for the HV supply?

             
B- goes the the plate current meter. Linger longer.
Logged

All your worries won't add a day to your life, or make the ones you have any happier.
va3dxv
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 25


« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2020, 12:23:00 PM »

Nice looking schematic. Smiley

 Initially, I signed-up to be able to use the search feature. This is a valuable tool that's too often overlooked.


Don

Thanks.

I finally signed up a couple years ago for the same reason!

Good call on the diodes, I'll do that. Thank you
Logged
va3dxv
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 25


« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2020, 12:31:48 PM »


Where is the return for the HV supply?

             

I use SHV connectors on RG6 to transport HV from the PS to the amp, return is the sheild. B- is connected to chassis ground but not at the power supply, at the amp after the meters.
Logged
W2JBL
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2020, 08:12:59 PM »

FYI the tubes will need 5-10 volts negative bias on the control grids or the idling current will be too high. Also you can't plate modulate a grounded grid amp and get 100% modulation.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

AMfone - Dedicated to Amplitude Modulation on the Amateur Radio Bands
 AMfone © 2001-2015
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.041 seconds with 19 queries.