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Author Topic: How do you report an airspace critical condition?  (Read 9989 times)
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WA2SQQ
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« on: July 19, 2019, 05:27:26 PM »

Any pilots out there? For the past few weeks the tower lights on WABC Radio’s towers are off. They are located in Lodi,NJ, just 1 mile from Teterboro airport. Tried 5 local FAA numbers, all are disconnected. The FAAs emergency number tells you to submit complaints in writing! Left 2 messages to WABC in NYC, a week ago, no response. I just can’t believe this. Suggestions?
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K1JJ
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2019, 06:01:38 PM »

I would call the local police in Lodi, NJ. Talk to the Police Chief.  Tell him it borders on an emergency and town residents could be killed if a jet or airplane hits the un-lit tower. (in addition to passengers)   Insist they contact NYC police and send a police officer to WABC and shake them up.  Mention liability to the town of Lodi since you have notified them.  Let him know of your previous failed efforts thru the normal channels.

If he doesn't get excited about it and passes the buck, call the state police and do the same thing.

The key here is that liability applies to many people and organizations once they are notified.  If there is an accident, once a hot-shot lawyer and the media get on the case the lazy
defendants will be very sorry they didn't act immediately.

Also, a call to Teterboro Airport letting them know is a good idea. Make these calls and the light will be back on in 3 days or less.. :-)

T
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KB2WIG
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2019, 06:31:00 PM »



and then there is the FCC??

https://www.fcc.gov/enforcement#block-menu-block-4

klc
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w8khk
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2019, 06:41:23 PM »

And you might consider calling Teterboro Airport so they can inform incoming and departing pilots. If they are not aware the lights are out, they will appreciate the call, and they will probably also take action to resolve the issue promptly.
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Rick / W8KHK  ex WB2HKX, WB4GNR
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W1ITT
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2019, 08:36:37 PM »

The airnav.com site says that this lady is the Teterboro airport manager.
Manager:    RENEE SPANN
90 MOONACHIE AVE
TETERBORO, NJ 07608
Phone 201-288-1775
Decades ago, when I was paying the tuition by sitting on transmitters in the broadcast business, we would take a look at the current drawn by the tower lights every half hour when we took transmitter readings.  And if something seemed awry, we would go so far as to stick a head out the door and look at the tower.  We had a couple FAA telephone numbers and there were live people who would answer the phone.  I can't recall how much time we had to detect and report a failure, but we got right on it.
The only comforting thing in stories such as related here is that the air maps call out the tower locations and the pilots are generally aware, given that they would be first at the tower location otherwise. 
I have a 1600 footer about a half mile out my back door, across my back stone wall, and the number for Master Control at the TV station.  Nowadays they have telemetry that supposedly reports on the condition of each beacon and side marker in real time, but it doesn't always work.  That being said, I read very few stories about planes hitting towers.  All it takes is one.
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KK4YY
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2019, 08:52:06 PM »

I think this NOTAM might be it.


KTEB 07/047 OBST TOWER LGT (ASR 1046247) 405250.00N0740410.00W
    (1.9NM NNW TEB) 691.6FT (652.6FT AGL) OUT OF SERVICE. 06
    JUL 10:12 2019 UNTIL 06 AUG 23:59 2019. CREATED: 06 JUL 10:12
    2019

https://www.universalweather.com/regusers/publictools/corp_comp/metar_taf_notam.html?icao=KTEB

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistration.jsp?regKey=608749


Don
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K1JJ
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2019, 09:02:45 PM »

I think this NOTAM might be it.


KTEB 07/047 OBST TOWER LGT (ASR 1046247) 405250.00N0740410.00W
    (1.9NM NNW TEB) 691.6FT (652.6FT AGL) OUT OF SERVICE. 06
    JUL 10:12 2019 UNTIL 06 AUG 23:59 2019. CREATED: 06 JUL 10:12
    2019


Don

Yep, good job, Don.  "OUT OF SERVICE. 06    JUL 10:12 2019 UNTIL 06 AUG 23:59 2019."

August 6th is a long way off to fix.  Looking at all those NOTAMs, I wonder how many the pilots actually "absorb" to prevent a collision in real time. I suppose the radar has these in memory for display, even though they may be unlit.


T
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Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

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There's nothing like an old dog.
AJ1G
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2019, 09:12:06 PM »

The local 1KW AM station in Westerly RI 1230 WBLQ had their tower top light go out this past winter. When I first saw it, it had been working the previous night. I sent the station owner a private message on their FB page and received an almost immediate response thanking me for my concern and that they were aware of the problem and that the FAA and the FCC had already been notified.  The problem was an apparent intermittent in the power wiring to the light that proved difficult to fix. It was only recently put back in service within the last month or so.  The station owner said that part of the station duty engineers responsibility is to verify the lights are working properly.

I imagine that the WABC engineers likewise immediately notified the FAA and FCC of thier outage.  Lots of big towers out there in the Meadowlands not far from Newark Airport.  

The WBLQ station owner had told that it was going to take a while until he could get a climber in to work on thier outage.
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Chris, AJ1G
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N1BCG
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2019, 11:15:12 PM »

Any pilots out there?

Yes. Obstruction light outages should be reported to:

1) The tower owner. You can find out who this is from the tower registration number posted at the entrance to the facility or at the base of the tower. The FCC has a lookup feature (https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/asrn-within-radius)

2) The FAA (877-487-6867) or the closest FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) (https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/)

3) The control tower at the nearest airport with controlled airspace or the airport manager of the nearest airport. (www.airnav.com)
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N1BCG
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2019, 11:22:14 PM »

Looking at all those NOTAMs, I wonder how many the pilots actually "absorb" to prevent a collision in real time. I suppose the radar has these in memory for display, even though they may be unlit.

NOTAMS are an important part of departure and arrival airport information. The weather briefers will provide this information and pilots normally check these before each flight since they can include critical information such as “airport closed due to runway resurfacing”. It would be a bummer to just show up in that case.
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WA2SQQ
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2019, 06:02:30 PM »

Lol ... I called Lodi police. They told me three other people called them. “No one is ever at the site, so there isn’t a thing we can do”. Looked up all the local FAA numbers at Teterboro and Newark airports. All have been disconnected. Message tells you to submit any incidents in writing.

I would call the local police in Lodi, NJ. Talk to the Police Chief.  Tell him it borders on an emergency and town residents could be killed if a jet or airplane hits the un-lit tower. (in addition to passengers)   Insist they contact NYC police and send a police officer to WABC and shake them up.  Mention liability to the town of Lodi since you have notified them.  Let him know of your previous failed efforts thru the normal channels.

If he doesn't get excited about it and passes the buck, call the state police and do the same thing.

The key here is that liability applies to many people and organizations once they are notified.  If there is an accident, once a hot-shot lawyer and the media get on the case the lazy
defendants will be very sorry they didn't act immediately.

Also, a call to Teterboro Airport letting them know is a good idea. Make these calls and the light will be back on in 3 days or less.. :-)

T
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WA2SQQ
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2019, 06:06:55 PM »

I got through to the major newspaper in the area, The Record, who was very interested in the story. This is no small tower, I think it’s 648 ft! I also found out that the FAA is aware of it, and that WABC has properly notified them. This is all unbelievable to me!
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WA2SQQ
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2019, 06:17:48 PM »

The FCC tower listing is for the auxiliary tower. Their main tower is 648 ft. Both have no lights. Never had these problems when WA2HDE was the CE. Bill has long since retired, not even sure if he is still alive.

I think this NOTAM might be it.


KTEB 07/047 OBST TOWER LGT (ASR 1046247) 405250.00N0740410.00W
    (1.9NM NNW TEB) 691.6FT (652.6FT AGL) OUT OF SERVICE. 06
    JUL 10:12 2019 UNTIL 06 AUG 23:59 2019. CREATED: 06 JUL 10:12
    2019

https://www.universalweather.com/regusers/publictools/corp_comp/metar_taf_notam.html?icao=KTEB

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistration.jsp?regKey=608749


Don
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N1BCG
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2019, 08:27:20 PM »

It’s quite likely that there’s a tower light monitor * connected to the same remote control equipment that monitors their transmitter, generator, building security system, temperature, etc, and that the authorities were notified promptly. This is also not an unusual occurrence, although less so with the newer LED lighting.

From an aviation standpoint, you’d be flying extremely low at 650 feet and the approach paths to Teterboro factor in such obstructions. For example, aircraft arriving have to be at certain altitudes as they approach or depart the airport. You can see an example of this here: https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1908/00890IL19.PDF

I’m not downplaying the seriousness of this, but I’d be more concerned if it were a tower out in a rural area near an uncontrolled airport.

* these monitor current drawn by the tower lights. The bulb at the top flashes while others may be constant. An alarm condition is triggered when the pattern of current draw changes.
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W2PFY
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2019, 01:11:37 PM »

Tower stuff is way over my head?
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WA2SQQ
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2019, 01:25:01 PM »

So I finally got through to the tower at Teterboro airport. Interesting, at first they were not aware of it. I told them, you are only 1/2 mile away! Put me on hold and said, "oh ya, it's noted and on the notification system. Pilots are suppose to listen to it, so there should not be a problem." He explained that as long as WABC reported it, nothing more can be done. I just find this unbelievable!

So WABC is owned by Cumulus, along with God only knows how many stations. From what I've been able to determine, they no longer have a CE on site. Seems all accountability has been put aside.
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W2PFY
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2019, 02:55:16 PM »

WABC has an arrangement with another another radio station to use their tower at reduced power while changing out lamps. I read somewhere that it is illegal to change tower lamps on AM tower while they are energized. A 50 KW station must have a lot of hot spots on it? Have you ever heard of anyone working on a hot 50 KW tower? Please don't confuse this with FM station where the antenna is normally the only thing that should be energized   
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W1ITT
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2019, 03:09:04 PM »

Back in the good old days I, as well as many others, climbed and worked on hot AM towers.  Now OHSA rules prevent it.  However, there are special suits made up of screen wire laminated to fabric, with attached hoods that are allowed for hot tower work.  Most tower riggers hate them because they are hot to wear, and bulky and a bit restrictive.  But they put a man in his own personal Faraday cage.  Riggers refer to them as "beekeeper suits."
We used to stack up some dry wooden pallets, or put a wooden stepladder near the base so that we could hop onto the tower without shorting out the base insulator.  The thing to be cautious of was not to climb so far that your head stuck up over the tower top as there's always a high voltage point there.  I suppose corona around the ears would be undesirable.  There are a few skirt fed towers out there and one had the additional worry about leaning back too far and contacting the hot skirt  wires. 
Honestly I don't believe it ever did anyone any harm. I got many more RF burns by touching loose metal items on the ground.   But nowadays broadcast stations don't seem to live with the constant fear of dead air and dead carrier as they did back when radio was what's for dinner.
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KK4YY
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2019, 03:38:31 PM »

Tower lights out may have something to do with WABC having been recently sold.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/billionaire-castimatidis-buys-conservative-am-radio-station-11561659297
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« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2019, 04:06:40 PM »

That's very interesting and the price (12.5M)  is probably way down from what a station like that was worth before the internet? WABC and WKBW were the two main stations we listened to in the late 50's and 60's if you were from NE PA where I wuz raised. Here near Albany, NY there were a lot of power houses that are now gone that must have keep the youth entertained back in the day? The one thing I never heard when I was a kid was that "there will be no more radio listening if you don't eat your spinach!" Parents just told you to turn it down or change the station! A bombs could be dropping at any minute so the radio had to be on Grin Grin Grin

Times are a changing for sure and they're not going to stop!
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w4bfs
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« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2019, 05:05:11 PM »

Tower stuff is way over my head?


That has got to be the worst pun ever  Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2019, 08:34:16 PM »

I think this NOTAM might be it.


KTEB 07/047 OBST TOWER LGT (ASR 1046247) 405250.00N0740410.00W
    (1.9NM NNW TEB) 691.6FT (652.6FT AGL) OUT OF SERVICE. 06
    JUL 10:12 2019 UNTIL 06 AUG 23:59 2019. CREATED: 06 JUL 10:12
    2019


Don


The local Tower ATIS will often include reports of nearby tower lights being unlighted in addition to the NOTAMS already mentioned.

Yep, good job, Don.  "OUT OF SERVICE. 06    JUL 10:12 2019 UNTIL 06 AUG 23:59 2019."

August 6th is a long way off to fix.  Looking at all those NOTAMs, I wonder how many the pilots actually "absorb" to prevent a collision in real time. I suppose the radar has these in memory for display, even though they may be unlit.

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N1BCG
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« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2019, 09:17:42 PM »

Back in the good old days I, as well as many others, climbed and worked on hot AM towers.  Now OHSA rules prevent it.

We were fortunate to have AM/FM combos in adjacent towns. Our tower company climbers would climb up to, but not past, an active FM antenna, but each facility could transmit the other FM station at reduced power on a backup antenna so the FMs weren't an issue (they were less than a mHz apart).

For the AMs, we were able to feed some of the tower guy wires at reduced power and that fell below the intensity levels on the climbers' badges.

Quite a unique arrangement and it worked out well!
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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2019, 10:10:56 PM »

hot towers.. I completely believe in that.

I visited a 50KW AM transmitter in my early 20s and was generously given a 'personal' tour of the facility, and was shown one of the antenna bases. There was a large metal pole on a swivel with a ball on the far end and a handle on the near end, just inside the picket fence. That swivel pole was copiously grounded. The gentleman moved the ball close to the metal ring around the antena tower there at the base and a big hot arc was struck. He drew it out to maybe 3 inches and you could hear the voice inside the hiss of the arc. Pretty hot I'd say!

At a local 5KW station, the gentleman took a long piece of grass, mayne 18" long, and laid it on the base. As it cooked you could hear the oldies and big band music from it. That one has gone religious now which I don't mind but I wish they'd find an alternative to the one-hour 'investment info-bore-mercials' airing much of the time. Sadly they must depend on them for income.

Both stations have (or had) a panel for tower light controls and indicators for lamps being out. Probably all computerized these days.
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« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2019, 06:02:38 PM »

I guess this is still an issue, and it’s even attracted the attention of radio enthusiasts:

https://www.musicradio77.com/wwwboard/messages/452668.html
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