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Author Topic: Latest FCC action with Irb  (Read 17025 times)
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Pete, WA2CWA
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CQ CQ CONTEST


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« on: March 21, 2005, 12:14:11 PM »

See the latest:

http://amfone.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4324
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
WA1GFZ
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2005, 12:25:21 PM »

K1boy, skid row bum = no action
Irb, loaded = plenty of attention

just an observation and not defending either
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Art
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2005, 01:11:22 PM »

It is interesting you link these two operators in your mind. I am sure many of us do. As annoying as the amateur broadcash station is there is supporting precident in the ARRL broadcasts. The rules are not specific enough to differentiate between the two services. When K1MAN keys up on top of a qso in progress it automatically brings this huge red herring to the surface. It could go either way in court.

VJZ has repeatedly violated the interference rules and regulations which have only the peripheral supporting precident of the aforementioned broadcash related interference to "justify" such behavior. A court case, if it even made it to court, would most likely go against Irb. There is overwhelming evidence of multiple infractions and many who would supply recordings.

This has little to do with the financial status of the operators in question. . .

-ap
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2005, 01:21:05 PM »

KW1 VS DX100 HMMMMM

Both are breaking the law we will see who gets the most attention.
It might be like quota week at the police dept.
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Art
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2005, 01:51:27 PM »

Comparing the two implies we should accept rule breaking because other people break the rules and, apparently, aren't brought to task for their actions. . . .so it's only fair that little or no consequence should be assessed to others who break the law. I don't think it matters if your station is PW or KW. Should it?
Your comments also appear to trivialize the enforcement of the regulations but I suspect that is a hangover from the 70s and will not address it, except to avoid speeding past Dunkin Donuts. . .
As you pointed out, the FCC has lot's of other issues to address so I think the attention to the VJZ infraction(s) is due to multiple complaints over an extended period.


-ap
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2005, 03:53:16 PM »

I just find it odd that irb and I don't defend in any way seems to be getting a lot more attention than a guy pushing his business interests along with all the other baggage falls off the fcc radar.
safer busting speeders than bank robbers.
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WB2CAU
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2005, 08:59:29 PM »

Since the subject has been mentioned, what is the status on K1MAN? I don't recall anything happening after his FCC station inspection.  And I only hear him sporatically... He's not coming on 3.890 at 6:25 PM anymore, right? Is he conserving electricity or something?  Did his "jump team" parachute into the midst of the Tsunami disaster?  

Eric
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -- John Wayne
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2005, 09:26:31 PM »

You are correct in that Irb is CURRENTLY getting more PUBLIC attention than K1MAN. But over the last 10 years, K1MAN has received far more attention than Irb. And we don't know what is going on behind the scenes wrt K1MAN, speculation not withstanding.



Quote from: WA1GFZ
I just find it odd that irb and I don't defend in any way seems to be getting a lot more attention than a guy pushing his business interests along with all the other baggage falls off the fcc radar.
safer busting speeders than bank robbers.
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W1UJR
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2005, 09:40:57 PM »

Quote from: Steve - WB3HUZ
You are correct in that Irb is CURRENTLY getting more PUBLIC attention than K1MAN. But over the last 10 years, K1MAN has received far more attention than Irb. And we don't know what is going on behind the scenes wrt K1MAN, speculation not withstanding.


It is also much easier to badger an 80 year old man than some one who fights back, ala Baxter.

I've said it before and will say again, this thing with Irb is petty and childish and more a fight between two operators, certainly less egregious than someone who jams up 10 KC of spectrum with commercial broadcasts.

One thing that is getting overlooked here is that Stu made a reference to his employment, in some capacity – consulting or otherwise with the FCC. I suspect the Commission is more likely to go to bat for one its own.

Let me try complaining about Irb’s operation or worse yet a slopbucketers operation and see how far I get. People have been pissing and moaning about other hams and their on-air manners since radio began, this is the first instance in recent memory that I can recall of someone getting jammed up for answering a CQ.

Its going to take some real brass balls to take on Baxter and get the job done, I’d much rather see the Commission’s attention and recourses focused there, it would certainly be more productive to the amateur community in general.

With that said, "God Bless Mel Gibson."
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Paul, K2ORC
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2005, 09:48:34 PM »

I don't think Stu is employed by the FCC.  He serves, or served, on an advisory counsel to that agency, but I think he is employed in the private sector.
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Go Duke![/b]
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2005, 10:01:47 PM »

Available data does not support your argument Bruce. There are dozens of FCC letters and actions reported regularly on the ARRL Web site. How many of them involve a complainant that works for the FCC? How many involve poor, defenseless (yea right) maple syrup farmers? None that I know of.

You may recall Tim, WA1HLR received similar letters several years ago. These letters were generated by a rash of complaints received by the FCC. Don't get me wrong, I think the system used by the FCC is bogus. If they receive a complaint (or several) they shouldn't send out a letter. They should first VERIFY the complaint. That said, I don't see Irb as being singled out when there are a veritable mountain of these letters sent out by the FCC.
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W1UJR
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2005, 10:09:14 PM »

Quote from: Steve - WB3HUZ
Available data does not support your argument Bruce. There are dozens of FCC letters and actions reported regularly on the ARRL Web site. How many of them involve a complainant that works for the FCC? How many involve poor, defenseless (yea right) maple syrup farmers? None that I know of.

You may recall Tim, WA1HLR received similar letters several years ago. These letters were generated by a rash of complaints received by the FCC. Don't get me wrong, I think the system used by the FCC is bogus. If they receive a complaint (or several) they shouldn't send out a letter. They should first VERIFY the complaint. That said, I don't see Irb as being singled out when there are a veritable mountain of these letters sent out by the FCC.



Steve you're right of course, the FCC does send out many letters. But, how many letters do you see the FCC sending out for one station answering anothers CQ?

Stu filed the sole complaint in the matter, it was not like the FCC received dozens and dozens of letters.


Let's not make this more complex than it actually is. Its simply a squabble between two kids in a small sandbox.

Over....
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2005, 10:09:44 PM »

Quote from: WA1GFZ
I just find it odd that irb and I don't defend in any way seems to be getting a lot more attention than a guy pushing his business interests along with all the other baggage falls off the fcc radar.
safer busting speeders than bank robbers.


It's much quicker to convict a bookie with a bad lawyer than it is to convict a killer with a good one.

That's why we're seeing such rapid progress in the Irb scenario. Glenn is smart enough to respond to FCC inquiries the in a way that at least addresses the facts in question. Keeps them tied up in their own red tape that way. Irb, on the other hand, responds to FCC inquiries with diatribes about Jesus and Jefferson. Guaranteed way of pissing off the enforcement bureau, right there.

Glenn has been successful in dragging out the FCC for well over a decade, but I suspect he's running out of tricks. Irb is doing nothing to keep the FCC at bay. If anything, he's attracting them.

The only real comparison is the fact that they're both a pain in the ass.

It'll all come out in the wash eventually.

--Thom
Killer Album One Zappa's Greatest Compsitions
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2005, 10:17:37 PM »

You appear to be confusing personal matters with FCC actions. I agree the issue may have better handled by the personalities themselves. But one of them took it to the FCC. You seem to be making the claim that the FCC is engaging an this action as a personal favor to Stu or because Irb is an easy target.

"It is also much easier to badger an 80 year old man than some one who fights back, ala Baxter. "

I don't consider what the FCC has done as badgering. If so, then they have badgered ALL of the other hams to whom they sent letters.




Quote from: W1UJR
Quote from: Steve - WB3HUZ
Available data does not support your argument Bruce. There are dozens of FCC letters and actions reported regularly on the ARRL Web site. How many of them involve a complainant that works for the FCC? How many involve poor, defenseless (yea right) maple syrup farmers? None that I know of.

You may recall Tim, WA1HLR received similar letters several years ago. These letters were generated by a rash of complaints received by the FCC. Don't get me wrong, I think the system used by the FCC is bogus. If they receive a complaint (or several) they shouldn't send out a letter. They should first VERIFY the complaint. That said, I don't see Irb as being singled out when there are a veritable mountain of these letters sent out by the FCC.



Steve you're right of course, the FCC does send out many letters. But, how many letters do you see the FCC sending out for one station answering anothers CQ?

Stu filed the sole complaint in the matter, it was not like the FCC received dozens and dozens of letters.


Let's not make this more complex than it actually is. Its simply a squabble between two kids in a small sandbox.

Over....
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W1UJR
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2005, 06:39:39 AM »

Two guys have a dispute on the playground, one goes running to the teacher.

My was that this could and should have been handled with a phone call, or at worse, by simply ignoring the other station.

The offense, if one can call it that, is mild.
Involving the FCC is like swatting a fly with a hammer.

This sets a dangerous precident, does the FCC get involved in each and every personal dispute on the air? That is a slipperly slope my friend and certainly not good stewardship of the Comission's limited resources.

That's it, that's all, and that's my 2 cents.


..-.-


Quote from: Steve - WB3HUZ
You appear to be confusing personal matters with FCC actions. I agree the issue may have better handled by the personalities themselves. But one of them took it to the FCC. You seem to be making the claim that the FCC is engaging an this action as a personal favor to Stu or because Irb is an easy target.

"It is also much easier to badger an 80 year old man than some one who fights back, ala Baxter. "

I don't consider what the FCC has done as badgering. If so, then they have badgered ALL of the other hams to whom they sent letters.




Quote from: W1UJR
Quote from: Steve - WB3HUZ
Available data does not support your argument Bruce. There are dozens of FCC letters and actions reported regularly on the ARRL Web site. How many of them involve a complainant that works for the FCC? How many involve poor, defenseless (yea right) maple syrup farmers? None that I know of.

You may recall Tim, WA1HLR received similar letters several years ago. These letters were generated by a rash of complaints received by the FCC. Don't get me wrong, I think the system used by the FCC is bogus. If they receive a complaint (or several) they shouldn't send out a letter. They should first VERIFY the complaint. That said, I don't see Irb as being singled out when there are a veritable mountain of these letters sent out by the FCC.



Steve you're right of course, the FCC does send out many letters. But, how many letters do you see the FCC sending out for one station answering anothers CQ?

Stu filed the sole complaint in the matter, it was not like the FCC received dozens and dozens of letters.


Let's not make this more complex than it actually is. Its simply a squabble between two kids in a small sandbox.

Over....
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GEORGE/W2AMR
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2005, 07:00:11 AM »

Quote from: W1UJR
Two guys have a dispute on the playground, one goes running to the teacher.

My was that this could and should have been handled with a phone call, or at worse, by simply ignoring the other station.

The offense, if one can call it that, is mild.
Involving the FCC is like swatting a fly with a hammer.

This sets a dangerous precident, does the FCC get involved in each and every personal dispute on the air? That is a slipperly slope my friend and certainly not good stewardship of the Comission's limited resources.

That's it, that's all, and that's my 2 cents.


..-.-


Quote from: Steve - WB3HUZ
You appear to be confusing personal matters with FCC actions. I agree the issue may have better handled by the personalities themselves. But one of them took it to the FCC. You seem to be making the claim that the FCC is engaging an this action as a personal favor to Stu or because Irb is an easy target.

"It is also much easier to badger an 80 year old man than some one who fights back, ala Baxter. "

I don't consider what the FCC has done as badgering. If so, then they have badgered ALL of the other hams to whom they sent letters.




Quote from: W1UJR
Quote from: Steve - WB3HUZ
Available data does not support your argument Bruce. There are dozens of FCC letters and actions reported regularly on the ARRL Web site. How many of them involve a complainant that works for the FCC? How many involve poor, defenseless (yea right) maple syrup farmers? None that I know of.

You may recall Tim, WA1HLR received similar letters several years ago. These letters were generated by a rash of complaints received by the FCC. Don't get me wrong, I think the system used by the FCC is bogus. If they receive a complaint (or several) they shouldn't send out a letter. They should first VERIFY the complaint. That said, I don't see Irb as being singled out when there are a veritable mountain of these letters sent out by the FCC.



Steve you're right of course, the FCC does send out many letters. But, how many letters do you see the FCC sending out for one station answering anothers CQ?

Stu filed the sole complaint in the matter, it was not like the FCC received dozens and dozens of letters.

Let's not make this more complex than it actually is. Its simply a squabble between two kids in a small sandbox.

Over....

Hey Bruce, have you noticed both of my posts and your reply to me have been deleted. Seems somebody doesn't like me.  :lol:
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W1UJR
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2005, 07:11:59 AM »

Didn't notice that George, what did you say?
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w3jn
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2005, 07:16:52 AM »

I think George is confused.  You both posted on this subject in the ARRL forum.
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GEORGE/W2AMR
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2005, 07:38:23 AM »

Quote from: w3jn
I think George is confused.  You both posted on this subject in the ARRL forum.

Yep, a senior moment. Never mind.
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GEORGE/W2AMR
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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2005, 07:41:35 AM »

Quote from: W1UJR
Didn't notice that George, what did you say?

Never mind, my mistake. Hey Bruce, I heard you this morning. Was going to jump in but I wasn't hearing you very well. Conditions I guess. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow.
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W1UJR
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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2005, 08:12:59 AM »

Hi George,

Yes, just running 50 watts here, but have a great antenna, perhaps catch you tomorrow.

-Bruce
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GEORGE/W2AMR
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« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2005, 08:15:08 AM »

Quote from: W1UJR
Hi George,

Yes, just running 50 watts here, but have a great antenna, perhaps catch you tomorrow.

-Bruce

You gotta get some fire in the wire dude.  Cheesy
Look for you around 6:30
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W1UJR
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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2005, 08:21:24 AM »

I have to wait for it to warm up before I move into the barn, future hamshack and workshop.

So, until then, I am PW at 50 watts - which does a great job if conditions are good.

50 watts on the new antenna is like 500 watts on the old antenna.

FB OM and all that jazz.

I'll listen for you while the oatmeal is cooking. :-)


.
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Art
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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2005, 08:30:48 AM »

"Steve you're right of course, the FCC does send out many letters. But, how many letters do you see the FCC sending out for one station answering anothers CQ? "

My apologies for butting in. . . . you are focusing on a minor issue. Irbs answering CQs when he is not wanted is one of many symptoms. I don't have to list them as they are general knowledge. Some of the worst criminals did not get arrested for murder or racketeering. They were  arrested for the almost rationalizable crime of tax evasion. Those observing from an expanded perspective understood they were removing a blight from society even if the removal was not specifically a response to all the infractions comitted by the criminal.

The FCCs position on K1MAN appears to be one of attrition. We shall see what October brings. My sense is license expiration is more effective in time frame than a contested trial.

-ap
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2005, 08:32:50 AM »

Bruce,
I agree. The FCC should not be playing den mother.
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