K7DYY 80/40 Super Senior

[WB5IRI]

Just arrived today, waiting for me on the porch after work. Stuck a mic on it, wired up the receiver mute, plugged in the antenna, and voila! Full output on 3885. Had a nice QSO with W5XJ and WA5HRF with good audio reports. After a longish transmission, the transmitter still felt cold to the touch. I think I am going to like this box! A good way to start the weekend.
Doug

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Do these transmitters have a FCC blessing? UL approval? Or is it even needed? i.e. Complies with Part XX.xx

[AF5J]

There was a review and conversation on it.
Have not read all of it but am now.
http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=33537.25

[W3GMS]

Do these transmitters have a FCC blessing? UL approval? Or is it even needed? i.e. Complies with Part XX.xx

UL is not required to sell a product.  The reason firms get UL approval is that if their is an issue it buys the manufacture some degree of protection since they have gone through all the testing required to earn the UL mark.   

FCC is another matter.  They do required type acceptance since it must meet the harmonic standards as stated in the FCC for HF operation.   

Joe

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Do these transmitters have a FCC blessing? UL approval? Or is it even needed? i.e. Complies with Part XX.xx

UL is not required to sell a product.  The reason firms get UL approval is that if their is an issue it buys the manufacture some degree of protection since they have gone through all the testing required to earn the UL mark.    

FCC is another matter.  They do required type acceptance since it must meet the harmonic standards as stated in the FCC for HF operation.    

Joe

Yep. I understand the significance of the UL mark on equipment. Almost all the AT&T packet switch equipment i managed on the end-user side had to submitted to UL, CSA, and the European equivalent before it hit the market.

What makes me nervous with the Super Senior stuff is that the 120 AC line goes directly to the full-wave bridge. There is no line isolation. If the diodes shorted in the bridge, you could have AC line voltage in all the wrong places. I would also worry about trouble shooting on your own and accidentally touching the wrong terminal while standing on a basement floor. Of course, the same precautions have to be taken with working with a transformerless AC/DC receiver. As far as the FCC stuff, I couldn't find any mention of it on the web site.

[WD8BIL]

Direct rectification has been used for decades. Particularly in switching power supplies. Most home entertainment products now use it. Designed properly it poses no more threat than traditional transformer technologies.- Many commercial customers require a minimum of Class 2 insolation for indoor products and Class 4 for outdoor stuff prompting the mfg to seek UL recognition.

At work, any ODM supplies we market must have UL listing which requires a higher level of UL testing than recognition.

 

[W3RSW]

Also regarding FCC type acceptance, It's a transmitter, not a linear amplifier so perhaps different FCC compliance language applies. I'll have to look it up.

Glad your happy with it Doug.

[WB5IRI]

So far, so good. Still dialing in the audio. Was over driving it a bit. Most of the old boat anchors I am used to have restricted audio, the Super Senior has the opposite problem and can be quite happy cruising along at more than 10kHz wide. Not friendly to the other users of the band. Got to watch the audio drive and bandwidth. Getting there.
Doug

[WD5JKO]

Doug,

   I was listening to you yesterday on 7160 when your Super Senior cut out on you twice. I wonder what happened?

Are you using the K7DYY preamp/processor in the base of a D-104? If so, I wonder which version you have since I believe that are three separate designs.

With class D it is pretty important to keep the rig loaded close to a 1:1 SWR. Take a look at what Janis AB2RA says about that topic with here pair of Super Senior's:

http://wireless-girl.com/Projects/AMTransmitters/K7DYYtransmitter.html

Jim
Wd5JKO

[flintstone mop]

Do these transmitters have a FCC blessing? UL approval? Or is it even needed? i.e. Complies with Part XX.xx

UL is not required to sell a product.  The reason firms get UL approval is that if their is an issue it buys the manufacture some degree of protection since they have gone through all the testing required to earn the UL mark.   

FCC is another matter.  They do required type acceptance since it must meet the harmonic standards as stated in the FCC for HF operation.   

Joe

Yep. I understand the significance of the UL mark on equipment. Almost all the AT&T packet switch equipment i managed on the end-user side had to submitted to UL, CSA, and the European equivalent before it hit the market.

What makes me nervous with the Super Senior stuff is that the 120 AC line goes directly to the full-wave bridge. There is no line isolation. If the diodes shorted in the bridge, you could have AC line voltage in all the wrong places. I would also worry about trouble shooting on your own and accidentally touching the wrong terminal while standing on a basement floor. Of course, the same precautions have to be taken with working with a transformerless AC/DC receiver. As far as the FCC stuff, I couldn't find any mention of it on the web site.

DEFINITELY Pete,
One of the big draw backs of the (earlier???) K7DYY transmitters. I think he straightened that out. Maybe the newer transmitters are not wired that way. I had the little Class D 80M transmitter and I accidentally connected something to the PTT and it blew something out. Cost $90 to fix. Bruce said that it is mentioned on his web site that these units need an isolation transformer "or bad things will happen!!!!"
How are these transmitters built now?? Is there a warning to use an isolation transformer?? I think he was getting a lot of flak from buyers falling into that pit and maybe he reconfigured the circuitry.........dunno
I looked on Bruce's website and the latest super senior for 80/40 is not listed...I see the 160/80 for $1430

[WB5IRI]

Jim,
It was faulting due to over modulation. I was running the mic preamp with the same settings I use on my AF68, but, of course, that's a high impedance tube rig and this is low impedance solid state. There is no way to monitor the modulation (no modulation meter or any other indicator) and my REA mod monitor software is on my work laptop, which I will put in line today. Sooo, learning experience time here, moving from rigs where everything is metered to one where nothing is metered and there is no visual indicator of anything except my peak reading Bird watt meter.

BTW, yes, I've read the Wireless Girl's comments. My SWR is fine, but I am aware of the issues involved, which is why I have a tuner in line. Once I have the modulation monitor running, I'll do some tests and see which carrier level and what audio settings give me the best results.

Last night on 3890 WA5CMI watched his pan adaptor while I adjusted things at 300 watts carrier. We got it in the ball park before he had to go. No more latch outs due to over modulation!

I'm so used to knowing everything that's happening in my transmitters that this is taking some mindset adjustment. But that's part of the fun, too!

Doug,

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Do these transmitters have a FCC blessing? UL approval? Or is it even needed? i.e. Complies with Part XX.xx

UL is not required to sell a product.  The reason firms get UL approval is that if their is an issue it buys the manufacture some degree of protection since they have gone through all the testing required to earn the UL mark.   

FCC is another matter.  They do required type acceptance since it must meet the harmonic standards as stated in the FCC for HF operation.   

Joe

Yep. I understand the significance of the UL mark on equipment. Almost all the AT&T packet switch equipment i managed on the end-user side had to submitted to UL, CSA, and the European equivalent before it hit the market.

What makes me nervous with the Super Senior stuff is that the 120 AC line goes directly to the full-wave bridge. There is no line isolation. If the diodes shorted in the bridge, you could have AC line voltage in all the wrong places. I would also worry about trouble shooting on your own and accidentally touching the wrong terminal while standing on a basement floor. Of course, the same precautions have to be taken with working with a transformerless AC/DC receiver. As far as the FCC stuff, I couldn't find any mention of it on the web site.

DEFINITELY Pete,
One of the big draw backs of the (earlier???) K7DYY transmitters. I think he straightened that out. Maybe the newer transmitters are not wired that way. I had the little Class D 80M transmitter and I accidentally connected something to the PTT and it blew something out. Cost $90 to fix. Bruce said that it is mentioned on his web site that these units need an isolation transformer "or bad things will happen!!!!"
How are these transmitters built now?? Is there a warning to use an isolation transformer?? I think he was getting a lot of flak from buyers falling into that pit and maybe he reconfigured the circuitry.........dunno
I looked on Bruce's website and the latest super senior for 80/40 is not listed...I see the 160/80 for $1430

Found this on his web site for the Super Senior PS:

[WD5JKO]

If you look further, the Audio input is isolated as is the RF output. So there is no "user" danger so long as you stay out of the internal circuitry. I sometimes work on switch mode power supplies at work, and most have the same design topology. They are isolated to keep the user safe, but putting a scope on the internal chopper is problematic. I use a battery operated Tektronix scope to allow me to do that, and do so safely.

http://www.k7dyy.com/sssch.htm

I would not be worried about those rigs being unsafe isolation wise. Still, any 1500 watt peak capable transmitter should be respected.

Jim
Wd5JKO

[W3GMS]

As per part 97.307(D)

(d) For transmitters installed after January 1, 2003, the mean power of any spurious emission from a station transmitter or external RF power amplifier transmitting on a frequency below 30 MHz must be at least 43 dB below the mean power of the fundamental emission. For transmitters installed on or before January 1, 2003, the mean power of any spurious emission from a station transmitter or external RF power amplifier transmitting on a frequency below 30 MHz must not exceed 50 mW and must be at least 40 dB below the mean power of the fundamental emission. For a transmitter of mean power less than 5 W installed on or before January 1, 2003, the attenuation must be at least 30 dB. A transmitter built before April 15, 1977, or first marketed before January 1, 1978, is exempt from this requirement.

This information is part of the data that one must present when getting a transmitter or external amplifier type accepted.   

Joe-GMS

[Pete, WA2CWA]

In poking around the internet, it sounds like if it has a "FCC Label" it complies with their rules but reading some of this info can be confusing.

There is this info from the FCC:
Equipment Authorization Program For Radio Frequency Devices

Also this from the ARRL web site: http://www.arrl.org/part-15-radio-frequency-devices#Threats

I wonder if there is a list of type accepted transmitters and/or equipment available from the FCC. If there is, I couldn't find it but it might be buried somewhere on their web site.

[W3GMS]

In poking around the internet, it sounds like if it has a "FCC Label" it complies with their rules but reading some of this info can be confusing.

There is this info from the FCC:
Equipment Authorization Program For Radio Frequency Devices

Also this from the ARRL web site: http://www.arrl.org/part-15-radio-frequency-devices#Threats

I wonder if there is a list of type accepted transmitters and/or equipment available from the FCC. If there is, I couldn't find it but it might be buried somewhere on their web site.

You have two parts to getting a transceiver type accepted.  The receiver is a non intentional radiator and that falls under part 15.  In the case of a receiver, they want to make sure the L.O. does radiate back through the front end and out the antenna.   The transmitter is an intentional radiator and that falls under part 97 which deals with the purity of that intentional radiator.  Both part 15 and applicable sections of part 97 must comply before FCC type acceptance be granted.  If its not granted then the item cannot be sold.  When all requirements are met, an FCC ID number is granted. 

Joe   

[Pete, WA2CWA]

In poking around the internet, it sounds like if it has a "FCC Label" it complies with their rules but reading some of this info can be confusing.

There is this info from the FCC:
Equipment Authorization Program For Radio Frequency Devices

Also this from the ARRL web site: http://www.arrl.org/part-15-radio-frequency-devices#Threats

I wonder if there is a list of type accepted transmitters and/or equipment available from the FCC. If there is, I couldn't find it but it might be buried somewhere on their web site.

You have two parts to getting a transceiver type accepted.  The receiver is a non intentional radiator and that falls under part 15.  In the case of a receiver, they want to make sure the L.O. does radiate back through the front end and out the antenna.   The transmitter is an intentional radiator and that falls under part 97 which deals with the purity of that intentional radiator.  Both part 15 and applicable sections of part 97 must comply before FCC type acceptance be granted.  If its not granted then the item cannot be sold.  When all requirements are met, an FCC ID number is granted. 

Joe   

So then, does anyone know if this transmitter has met the FCC requirements and a FCC ID numbered issued for it? Is a tag or label applied somewhere on the rig? None of my boatanchor transmitters have any FCC identification on them nor does my mid 70's Kenwood T-599D transmitter.

[WD5JKO]

I think we need to broaden this topic to include other amateur radio equipment, or move onto something else.

This topic is explored and concluded here:
http://www.eham.net/articles/23327

As hams, and as AM'ers we are better off with this nice AM transmitter being on the market.

Jim
Wd5JKO

[W3GMS]

I think we need to broaden this topic to include other amateur radio equipment, or move onto something else.

This topic is explored and concluded here:
http://www.eham.net/articles/23327

As hams, and as AM'ers we are better off with this nice AM transmitter being on the market.

Jim
Wd5JKO

Its a valid question and in the process of asking questions we all can learn something.  Not trying to run down anything that may or may not be type accepted.  After looking at the design, I am sure it would easily make the grade!   

The law is the law and manufactures need to go by the rules. 

Joe-GMS   

[W3RSW]

There is no FCC type acceptance label on the back of my K3 which btw contains an optional 10in/100out watt linear amplifier.

There is a very prominent FCC label on the back of my Alpha 89.

On the back of my ASRock Atom computer is a ton of labels, UL, CEF, TUV, FCC type 15 and Chinese characters, you name it.

Same on back of Sony Laptop i5, SVE151 including FCC.

Most all of my other equipment predates type certification.

As for all my homebrew equipment including linear amplifiers with PI, ( not PI-L) output networks,  regenerative radios, etc.
 .... well they can come and get me.  

[W3GMS]

There is no FCC type acceptance label on the back of my K3 which btw contains an optional 10in/100out watt linear amplifier.

There is a very prominent FCC label on the back of my Alpha 89.

On the back of my ASRock Atom computer is a ton of labels, UL, CEF, TUV, FCC type 15 and Chinese characters, you name it.

Same on back of Sony Laptop i5, SVE151 including FCC.

Most all of my other equipment predates type certification.

Notice the new gear ad's in QST stating the unit cannot be sold until Type Acceptance has been granted!  



As for all my homebrew equipment including linear amplifiers with PI, ( not PI-L) output networks,  regenerative radios, etc.
 .... well they can come and get me.  

Better watch it Rick with all that black market gear that you have around ....

In my modern station, which is the TS-590S and Alpha 8410 both are well marked!   No markings on my Ranger II !!  

Notice the early product announcements in QST on new gear saying it cannot be sold until FCC type acceptance is granted.

Joe - GMS    

 

[nq5t]

The way I read the FCC doc and Part 97 (admittedly, a quick read), there is no requirement for "Type Acceptance" for a commercial transmitter in the amateur service.  But I'm rarely right

In any case, I sent an email to Bruce and asked him about it.  Might as well go to the horse's mouth.

Grant NQ5T

Follow up:  Heard back from Bruce and also found other corroborating sources.  "Type Acceptance" is not required for transmitters used in the Amateur Service.  Amps, yes, per Part 97.  Transmitters, no.  We are considered to be technically competent enough (a stretch perhaps in some cases) to ensure that our transmitters meet the requirements of the rules — whether they are commercial or built on our bench.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The way I read the FCC doc and Part 97 (admittedly, a quick read), there is no requirement for "Type Acceptance" for a commercial transmitter in the amateur service.  But I'm rarely right

In any case, I sent an email to Bruce and asked him about it.  Might as well go to the horse's mouth.

Grant NQ5T

Follow up:  Heard back from Bruce and also found other corroborating sources.  "Type Acceptance" is not required for transmitters used in the Amateur Service.  Amps, yes, per Part 97.  Transmitters, no.  We are considered to be technically competent enough (a stretch perhaps in some cases) to ensure that our transmitters meet the requirements of the rules — whether they are commercial or built on our bench.

How does one "ensure that our transmitters meet the requirements of the rules" with this transmitter in the discussion? I can't find any transmitter specs on his web site. Does he provide "test results before ship" with each transmitter he sells?

[VE3AJM]

Why not simply email Bruce K7DYY yourself Pete, ask him your questions, and report back to all of us here with the answers.

From what I have heard of his line of transmitters and gear on the air and from online reviews, it seems to be a very good, well designed AM transmitter.


Al VE3AJM

[N2DTS]

So the 40 meter version is shipping now?

I would think these things would be boring, great in every way but not much excitement?
No meters, no glowing tubes...