Where do the little AM guys hang out?

[ne2d]

I recently got a Heathkit DX-40 on the air, but I'm not sure where there are other low power, screen-modulated rigs on the air.
I know there must be some, but all I hear AM-wise, are the big boys with their maximum legal limit plate-modulated transmitters.
Nothing against them, but I would feel intimidated trying to keep up with them in nets or rountables.

I heard there is a DX-60 net, but I think it moved to early Sunday morning somewhere, and I'm usually not able to get on the air then.

Any of those peanut whistles like mine on the air regularly, and if so, where and when might they be?

Thanks,
Al, NE2D

[w3jn]

There's plenty of little guys that check in with the tall ships.  Lately (can't remember his call, but he's in the ANdirondaks somewhere) has been checking in on 75 with a strapping signal - 25 whole watts out of an ARC-5.

Don't be shy - join the fun.  Most of us started PW (and many of us still are!).

73 John

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

You will find lots of low power rigs on 40 meters. There isn't any special net or frequency for them. They are mixed right in with the 100 watters (DX-100s, etc) and the higher powered stations. The propagation and antenna requirements allow a lower powered station to have a pretty potent signal on 40 meters, especially during the daylight hours. Join in on 7285-7300 kHz.

Seventy-five meters is a little different story. You have to pick your operating times a little more carefully. Short story, if you have a good antenna, you can have lots of fun with low power when the band isn't crowded (low QRM levels). Daylight and early evening hours are the most obvious times. But don't forget about late night/early moring hours too (0100 - 0700 local). The band clears out quite nicely during this time, especially after 0300 and long distance propagation is happening.

Try it out and get a feel for things. The reports you get back from the stations you work will tell you when and where to get on. Have fun!

[Steve W8TOW]

The DX 60 Net is hosted each Sunday morning at 8 AM eastern time by N8ECR, Mike.
Early net check-ins are at 7:30AM ish. on 3880 khz.

The Multi-Elmac Net is at 8 PM, every Wednesday night at 8 AM,
also hosted by Mike, but KA2J, Dave in NY and I also assist due to band condx.
The Multi Elmac Net is on 3880 or 3885, due to freq use, and does not
run the first WED of each month preventing interference with the CCA AM Net.

Another 75m net to consider is the AWA (ANtique Wireless net) on 3837 khz, every Sunday afternoon, at 4 pm. THis is hosted by Dave KA2J in NY.
good luck and welcome!
73 steve
w8tow

[ne2d]

Thanks for the replies.
Every time I listen on 40 meters, the broadcast stations are overpowering everyone. I guess I listen too late usually.

Maybe I'll try the Multi-Elmac net, or the AWA net. (I'm assuming you don't have to be using a Multi-Elmac to join the net).

I got on the CCA Net last night. After many attempts, I finally was able to check in. The net control station had a hard time hearing me, but he said he would have been able to copy me solid if not for all the QRM.

I heard KA2J check in also. I think he's right in my area, so I hear him pretty good.

[Paul, K2ORC]

Hi Al.  Low power AM is a lot of fun and conditions permitting, I sometimes like to run a little 5 watt homebrew AM xmtr on 75 meters.  It just requires a bit of operating strategy.

My experience with low power AM has taught me that if I want to join a QSO, I need to find out right away how well I'm being heard by everyone.  If someone says they're having a hard time hearing me, I say so long and either switch to something with more power or bag it for the time being.  Call CQ.  That lets those who hear you decide whether your signal is in their comfort level.  Late one night I called CQ on 75 with that little 5 watt AM rig and ended up chatting with a guy in Michigan who was running 10 watts.  

It's important to remember, especially on a band like 75 meters where there's a lot of competition for frequencies, if you're not being heard by guys you're trying to talk to, you're not being heard by guys who are looking for a frequency to use.  A long transmission by a station that can barely be heard can lose the frequency for a group.  

If your license class permits, you might want to check into the Antique Wireless Association Net on 3.837 which convenes at 4:30 ET (not 4:00 as mentioned above) on Sunday afternoons.  Net Control as noted is Dave, KA2J, who is near Rochester, NY.  You don't have to be an AWA member to participate, and being on a net would get you some signal reports in a structured environment, if that would make you feel more comfortable.

Look forward to hearing you!
Paul, K2ORC

[K1JJ]

Hi Al and welcome to AM!

I'd like to point something out about power you probably already know....

The AVERAGE AM station on 75M is probably capable of running between 150-250 watts out maximum. Lets say 200 watts output.  This is your competition to being heard - forget the ssb stations for now, cuz these AM stations will keep the freq clear for you. . If your DX-40 will do 20 watts out, that is only 10db below a 200W station.   That's not a big difference when condix are decent. Many guys work 20W riceboxes on AM a lot and do rather well.

What I'm getting at is that the antenna is the critical element here. With a few problems in the antenna, you can be DOWN 20db easily. "Problems" can be a dipole low to the ground with houses surrounding it that hold copper plumbing, house wiring, alum siding, etc. This will absorb and greatly distort your pattern.  Another thing is when an inverted V is put in too sharp of an apex angle and the radiation starts to cancel.  Also consider the effects of a poor feedline match.

The bottom line is that for local 75M AM work, you would like to get a FLAT dipole that is textbook straight up about 60'.  The feedline should come away at a perfect right angle and matched properly. Many use open wire with an antenna tuner. I use coax or hardline for all of my antennas here for convenience.  It does not matter on 75M what you use for feedline as long as the resulting power loss is low and the transfer is high.

So, your power level at 20W is FB for now. If you haven't already, talk with some of the guys or go outside and study how you can get up a dipole as described above. If you need more ideas, please describe your real estate situation there with trees, etc and the collective mind here will steer you right.  There's lots of ways to improve on what you have for supports using a bow and arrow, ropes and pulleys, ropes lines between trees used for center supports, etc. No climbing is required to use the highest crotch in a tree.

The thing to remember is that no matter what big effort a ham puts in for LOCAL 75M antenna work, a flat dipole at 60' is the best antenna you will find, bar none. I've tried them all. When talking out more than 300 miles, then the story changes and Yagis, phased arrays, high supports come into play. But for a take-off angle averaging around 50 degrees or so for locals, that 40'-70'  high dipole is optimum.

BTW, consider planning for a linear amplifier in the future - your next logical step. A pair of 3-500Z's in a Henry 2K  for $600 is ideal.

Good luck and 73,

Tom, K1JJ

[WA1GFZ]

Drake L4B is another good one.

[ne2d]

I probably will consider getting a linear amp sometime, although I worry a little about TVI and other RFI problems that might develop.

As far as my antenna, I would like to get one up nice and high, but I live in a rather new subdivision, and there aren't any big trees near me, (Not on my property anyway), so a vertical seemed like the only option.
I'm currently using a Butternut 6-band vertical up about 20 feet high, mounted to the side of the attached garage.
I only have one radial per band right now, due to time and space restrictions. It works pretty good that way on cw and ssb, but I might need more gain on AM. I'm not sure how much better I would get out on 75 meters with a couple more radials, but I can try to get a couple more up. They will have to all go kind of to the east, because there is no roof or anything to the west. (The antenna is on the far west side of the structure).

I recently helped my brother put up a diplole about 50 feet high, using a slingshot and fishing reel, and that made a big difference compared with the 20 or so feet he used to have. Fortunately, he lives in an older neighborhood with some tall trees. The tallest ones on my property are maybe 12 feet high, and not very sturdy.

[WA1GFZ]

black walnut grows very fast 3 to 4 feet a year.
Rohn grows 10 feet at a time but the first section in a pita.

[K1JJ]

Hi Al,

I didn't realize you were using a vertical on 75M there.  Great for DX [3,000+ miles away] if used with a full blown radial system and is in the clear with no houses, etc within 300' of it.  [actually 1/4 mile is what some say]

However, a vertical on 75M, even a full sized one with 120 radials can be down as much as 20-40 db locally compared to even a low dipole. This is because it has a sharp null [by design and physics] straight up - and even at 60 degrees is way down compared to a dipole for local work.  No wonder you are sensing a problem getting out.

Consider picking up some 3" diameter  and 2 1/2" diameter schedule 80 PVC pipes from Home Depot. Telescope them together. Make up a pair of masts that are guyed with rope to support the ends of a dipole.  Even 30' masts will give you an acceptable signal. You will easily gain 30db over your existing vertical, maybe more for locals. This is like going from 20W to 20,000W carrier with your verttical!

This is a common problem I've seen in the past, and you need to do everything possible to get up a horizontal dipole... even 20' high will shock you in local performance.  There are good multi-band designs using dipoles of different bands connected to the same coaxial feedline - my favorite design for 75/40M multi use.

73,
Tom, K1JJ

[ne2d]

The wife also grows upset very fast when huge "eyesores" are erected on the property, unfortunately.

[K1JJ]

OK on the XYL, OM.

Then if you stay with the vertical on 75M, you will need the patience of Job and the enthusiasm of Tom Vu not to get bored and give up being at a 30 db disadvantage compared to others using dipoles. It will be hard to hear receiving too with extra noise and low signal levels - not to mention the RFI you will cause neighbors with a vertical if ya get a linear..  

How about using the house chimney or garage with a small mast attached as a center support for a 75M dipole and pulling the ends out into the yard? [inverted vee or ANY config will do] Using small diameter wire and small RG-59U coax will make the antenna almost invisble from the road.

Have a good talk wid the XYL, OM.  It's your HOBBY! , caw mawn...  :grin:

Hope to hear ya on.

Tom, K1JJ

[WA1GFZ]

Yea, My XYL would rather see me in the shack than a bar.
trap her with logic and you will get what you want.
Walk around the house with the PW puss until she asks you
what the heck is your problem. Then tell her you are PW and
it is making you depressed. Man need to strap!
make man feel good. make man hard!

[ne2d]

Yeah, the XYL can be a bit finicky when it comes to those things.
She's worried the neighbors won't like anything out of the ordinary going up on the property. Once the trees get bigger, they'll hide things a bit, but I'll be retired by then.

I'll have to think about the idea of using something on the roof as the center of a dipole made out of small diameter wire. The chimney is just a litte tin thing, but it might work, or maybe I could put something else up to support it. (Being afraid of heights doesn't help though). When the tree in the front of the house gets a little bigger, I might be able to attach one end to that. Not sure about the other end.

[W1GFH]

I'll have to think about the idea of using something on the roof as the center of a dipole made out of small diameter wire.

Try the inverted vee configuration using a fiberglass pole as the center:

From K6ESE:
"Center support is a "22' Extra Heavy Duty Fiberglass Telescopic Pole" from www.kitesonline.com. The real purpose of the pole is to hang a large wind sock from, but it works great for antennas too! The pole is 2" in diameter at the base to give you an idea of the size. Since we have a defunct TV antenna on the roof of the house in the perfect spot (couldn't have placed it better myself!) I used the TV mast to support the antenna mast with a few U clamps. Height at the Apex was measured at just shy of 40'. The antenna wire is #22 high strand count silver tinned Teflon insulated copper. The center insulator/strain relief is made from a piece of 1/8" Plexiglas. The 450 Ohm Window Line is secured to the center insulator and soldered to the antenna wires. These joints also have heat shrink tubing and are sealed. The dimensions of the antenna wire are 44' per side making it 88' in total length. This forms an Extended Double Zepp on 20 Meters. The ends of the antenna slope down to either end of the house, and are about 10' off the ground. The antenna performs very well on 80 through 10 meters."

Trevor gets by with 44' per side but the longer you can do, the better.

[WA1GFZ]

Try to get 60 or 70 feet on a side. You could plant a couple trees as far apart as possible then sink a pole next to them. As the tree gets bigger
you can move ends to the trees. A vee works also.
Send this man the pw signal blues song by T.S.

[W1GFH]

HLR sings "piss weak hotel"....

http://hamgate.sunyerie.edu/~buffaloam/audio/hlrpwhotel.ram

[N9NEO]

Do this when the ol'lady goes out shoppin:

Get a big piece of cardboard or plywood and cover it with shiny tin foil.
 Stick it to a 2x4 and hammer it into the ground.  Make sure it's in a
place where the whole world can see it. When she gets home and
sees this monster she'll prolly start hootin & hollerin.  Tell her it's
your new antenna.  Right about now one of the guy's suggestions
 will start to look a whole lot better to her than the chrome
decoy.   Maybe even an opportunity for some make-up S*X.

good luck
73
NEO

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Studio version here.

http://www.amwindow.org/audio/htm/pwhotel.htm

HLR sings "piss weak hotel"....

http://hamgate.sunyerie.edu/~buffaloam/audio/hlrpwhotel.ram

[WA1GFZ]

I once rented a duplex from a guy out of Eastern Europe. I put a 20 meter inverted Vee in the attic and would plug in the 4-1000A rig next to the electric stove. I could run 1500 watts easy on 20 meter CW / SSB.
The problem was I could light up most of the light bulbs in the house including the two front porches. He was more than happy to let me put up
an 80 meter dipole with open wire line when he found out the place wasn't haunted by the devil. His kids had him quite freaked out.
The shock factor does work but it takes real talent to get make up S#X.
An issue for dopra and Dr. Phil................

[WD8BIL]

'Course you could forget the whole thing and just hangout in the Inquirer on this BBS.

Quite a few of them do "LITTLE AM"!

[Gary - WA4IAM]

Weekends during the day are a great time to run into stations running below 100 watts AM on 40 meters. I run around 30 watts carrier output from a James Millen transmitter with a 40 meter loop up about 50 feet and it seems to get out like gangbusters, many times netting me 10 to 20 over S9 signal reports up and down the east coast and out to the midwest. K1JJ has given you very sage advice concerning the antenna, plus his observations on operating practices when running low power. Follow his advice and you'll enjoy low power AM all the more. Welcome to AM, and I look forward to hearing you on the air!

[WD8BIL]

Seriously now Al.....

Gary WA4IAM is a gud example of what PP power can do. He's usually got a great signal here in Ohio with the Millen Xmitter.

What style house do you have ? Is it long 'nuff to stretch a 40 meter diperpole between 2 masts, one on each end ?? Ranches are great for that one !

Another idea is to make one of those 40' 2x2 supports shown in the Handbook and mount it dead center along your longest property edge and use it to hang an Inverted Vee from. Stretch the ends as far as u can. That wud be a good 75 local setup !

[WB3JOK]

This is my 20/40m antenna. Haven't tried it on AM (my Command Set rig and almost-finished linear amp are in Missouri and I'm in Maine at the moment) but it works great with a barefoot HW101...
Aroostook Amateur Radio Association project page
Compact, isn't it.
(The 40/75m loop, not shown, is a bigger 7.5 foot square version constructed of 1" tubing and is fixed-mounted to the wall on ceramic insulators).